Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

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Anonymous User
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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:36 pm

Sprout wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:QUESTION: So I've seen firms on SImplicity say ''identify which office your prefer on your resume.''

On my resume? Like, literally, on my resume, above my education section or something? ''Preferred Summer Location: New York City" .. is that how it works?

Someone help me?

Imo, I'd put it in your cover letter


Yeah it makes more sense, but don't want to be auto-dinged when the recruiter looks at my resume and thinks ''well he didn't follow instructions''

Sgtpeppernyc
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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby Sgtpeppernyc » Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:17 pm

Avoid satellite offices, as partners in those offices often have significantly less sway over the firm.

RaceJudicata
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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby RaceJudicata » Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:22 am

Sgtpeppernyc wrote:Avoid satellite offices, as partners in those offices often have significantly less sway over the firm.


I didn't read through the whole thread, only the last few pages. But is this a response to some previous post? If so, and i'm missing the context, my apologies.

However, if this is general advice, I completely disagree. Satellite offices can be great - typically smaller, more focused practice areas, less chance to get lost in the shuffle. Also, a summer/junior associate shouldn't care much/at all about the office's "sway over the firm." So long as the office practices in the area you want, and is in the city you want, then go for it.

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:2) Bring tons of resumes, and resume drop at hospitality suits. If nothing else you can get good swag from the better firms (like USB drives).


This was something I didn't think about but should have. We were given a ton of bid slots for OCI, but told not to make more than 20 or so, lest we be overwhelmed.

Overall sound advice, I think, except for one thing: if you bid on a firm but don't get on their schedule, you can do a resume drop and/or beg for them to interview you. Several of my classmates got callbacks this way.

However, if you don't bid on a firm, it's kind of awkward to go in and say "Hey! I really want to work for you, but I didn't even bid on you, even though I had plenty of extra bid slots."

Looking back, I probably should have bid on more firms. While I'd be unlikely to get an interview with those at the bottom of my list, I could at least resume drop at their hospitality suites.


I don't agree the idea of not being overwhelmed. I came from MVP with bottom 5% grades. Got a v50 offer, among a few others, because I did over 60 screening interviews. If you're a shoe-in candidate, then sure you don't want to be overwhelmed and focus on your favorite firms. For the rest of us, you need to feel overwhelmed and take as many interviews as you possibly can. If you're going to feel too overwhelmed by a bunch of interviews, Biglaw as a career may not be the answer.

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 17, 2016 5:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:2) Bring tons of resumes, and resume drop at hospitality suits. If nothing else you can get good swag from the better firms (like USB drives).


This was something I didn't think about but should have. We were given a ton of bid slots for OCI, but told not to make more than 20 or so, lest we be overwhelmed.

Overall sound advice, I think, except for one thing: if you bid on a firm but don't get on their schedule, you can do a resume drop and/or beg for them to interview you. Several of my classmates got callbacks this way.

However, if you don't bid on a firm, it's kind of awkward to go in and say "Hey! I really want to work for you, but I didn't even bid on you, even though I had plenty of extra bid slots."

Looking back, I probably should have bid on more firms. While I'd be unlikely to get an interview with those at the bottom of my list, I could at least resume drop at their hospitality suites.


I don't agree the idea of not being overwhelmed. I came from MVP with bottom 5% grades. Got a v50 offer, among a few others, because I did over 60 screening interviews. If you're a shoe-in candidate, then sure you don't want to be overwhelmed and focus on your favorite firms. For the rest of us, you need to feel overwhelmed and take as many interviews as you possibly can. If you're going to feel too overwhelmed by a bunch of interviews, Biglaw as a career may not be the answer.


I am in a similar situation. Did your grades come up as an issue or do you have any tips on how you overcame grades, at the callback stage?

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:40 am

RaceJudicata wrote:
Sgtpeppernyc wrote:Avoid satellite offices, as partners in those offices often have significantly less sway over the firm.


I didn't read through the whole thread, only the last few pages. But is this a response to some previous post? If so, and i'm missing the context, my apologies.

However, if this is general advice, I completely disagree. Satellite offices can be great - typically smaller, more focused practice areas, less chance to get lost in the shuffle. Also, a summer/junior associate shouldn't care much/at all about the office's "sway over the firm." So long as the office practices in the area you want, and is in the city you want, then go for it.


I agree with the second.

It's firm specific. It's possible a satellite exists because a specific practice area exists only or almost only in that region. These could be major money makers or flop, and it's hard to really know without researching or asking a few pointed questions.

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:08 pm

If you are at a school like GWU, don't assume you are good to go at OCI unless you are in the top 1%. Top 3% or 5% probably means you will get a job if you are not a terrible interviewer, but it definitely does not mean the V15 OCI firms are coming for you. They are coming to grab the top 1%.

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:15 pm

Take notes after the interview. Don't have to be extensive, just quick notes about what you said and what you talked about. Helps enormously if you end up seeing your interviewer again.

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 20, 2016 12:09 am

Anonymous User wrote:If you are at a school like GWU, don't assume you are good to go at OCI unless you are in the top 1%. Top 3% or 5% probably means you will get a job if you are not a terrible interviewer, but it definitely does not mean the V15 OCI firms are coming for you. They are coming to grab the top 1%.


Speaking specifically about GWU, this is total bullshit. This cycle alone I know more than a few top 1/3 (along with top 15%) people with double digit callbacks and offers at V15 firms. If you're at GWU and are saying this because you've struck out so far, quit making excuses for being unable to carry a conversation.

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If you are at a school like GWU, don't assume you are good to go at OCI unless you are in the top 1%. Top 3% or 5% probably means you will get a job if you are not a terrible interviewer, but it definitely does not mean the V15 OCI firms are coming for you. They are coming to grab the top 1%.


Speaking specifically about GWU, this is total bullshit. This cycle alone I know more than a few top 1/3 (along with top 15%) people with double digit callbacks and offers at V15 firms. If you're at GWU and are saying this because you've struck out so far, quit making excuses for being unable to carry a conversation.


I did OCI last year and was lucky enough to have a SA. Based on my experience last year, interview skills are very important for people with 3.7, 3.8 and lower-3.9 but matters little to those with 4.0+. "Interview skills" means more than carrying out a conversation, because unlikely most lottery systems, the pre-selection has already done the GPA cut and the screeners are tests for "fit." Also, you will be surprised about how many 4.0+ you have in your class. Just my two cents, and you can take it or leave it. Didn't mean to call out a specific school neither, so sorry if that upsets you. I should phrase it more like "non-T14 good schools."

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Take notes after the interview. Don't have to be extensive, just quick notes about what you said and what you talked about. Helps enormously if you end up seeing your interviewer again.


This. Also if you go to receptions/hospitality suites, jotting down notes from those too.

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby cookiejar1 » Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Take notes after the interview. Don't have to be extensive, just quick notes about what you said and what you talked about. Helps enormously if you end up seeing your interviewer again.


This. Also if you go to receptions/hospitality suites, jotting down notes from those too.


I went to every reception my 1L year with a simple goal: find one or two differentiating "factors" or anecdotes that aren't readily available through a simple google search that I could use as a reason for explaining why I'm interested in that firm during OCI.

I didn't talk to any partners (in fact I always tried to keep a respectable distance between myself and anyone who I perceived to be a senior). I went straight to people my age - the first and second-year associates also trying to stay away from the partners - and asked them why they chose their firm. Everyone had a pretty good story, which I then just shamelessly adapted for my own personal use the following summer. Worked like a charm.

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 21, 2016 8:04 am

1) start mass mailing well before OCI

2) ignore OCS advice to focus on 10 or even 20. They doing it to spread the wealth sort to speak.

3) all the way back to 1L, ignore advice to start summer search after first semester grades. Start sooner.

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axel.foley
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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby axel.foley » Sun Aug 21, 2016 11:10 am

cookiejar1 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Take notes after the interview. Don't have to be extensive, just quick notes about what you said and what you talked about. Helps enormously if you end up seeing your interviewer again.


This. Also if you go to receptions/hospitality suites, jotting down notes from those too.


I went to every reception my 1L year with a simple goal: find one or two differentiating "factors" or anecdotes that aren't readily available through a simple google search that I could use as a reason for explaining why I'm interested in that firm during OCI.

I didn't talk to any partners (in fact I always tried to keep a respectable distance between myself and anyone who I perceived to be a senior). I went straight to people my age - the first and second-year associates also trying to stay away from the partners - and asked them why they chose their firm. Everyone had a pretty good story, which I then just shamelessly adapted for my own personal use the following summer. Worked like a charm.


To any 0Ls / 1Ls reading this thread: This is EXCELLENT advice. Directly after the reception, write down these factoids somewhere so you remember them. Then use them in screener and CB interviews ad naseum. It is seriously so helpful. Don't underestimate having an answer to "why Debevoise?" that actually distinguishes the firm rather than the pro forma stuff everyone says.

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:14 am

How should I approach OCI if I have bad grades? I'm a rising 2L with no spring grades or ranking yet. If I have shitty grades, lets say they were bottom 25%, is there still a bidding strategy? Or is it just entirely the least selective firms?

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby grades?? » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:57 am

Anonymous User wrote:How should I approach OCI if I have bad grades? I'm a rising 2L with no spring grades or ranking yet. If I have shitty grades, lets say they were bottom 25%, is there still a bidding strategy? Or is it just entirely the least selective firms?


Need to know the school. At a place like Columbia, you still might have a small chance at v75-100 firms. If you are below the t13 with those grades, you are going to have an extremely difficult time finding any big law job

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:33 pm

PRACTICE YOUR INTERVIEWING with Career Services. I did not do this and wish I would have.

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WestWingWatcher
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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby WestWingWatcher » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:31 pm

Don't stress yourself out trying to know the full name of the firm. Knowing "Skadden" or "Paul, Weiss" is enough. As I type this out I realize how much I focused on the wrong things. :lol:

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby grades?? » Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:21 pm

Start mass mailing now. Last summer whole classes in major cities were full by July.

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby barkschool » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:07 am

Anonymous User wrote:PRACTICE YOUR INTERVIEWING with Career Services. I did not do this and wish I would have.


Oh man, you know how many times I read this and thought I was a lock and this wasn't required.

You don't want to hit full stride 3-4 interviews in.

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:15 am

That firm recruiting and job hunting -- far from being some mystical combination of factors that you can precisely game from the outset -- is all about getting as many interviews as you can, and then just being affable, polite, engaging, and following the interviewer's demeanor/social cues.
Grades are just another way to get more bites at the apple (ie, interviews). Networking is just another way to get more bites at the apple. Mass-mailing is just another way to get more bites at the apple. No matter how strong your grades, no matter how good your contacts, no matter how charming you think you are one-on-one, just keep throwing everything you have into getting more interviews, because it'll all come down to where you click or not.

I saw friends with grades well below median walk out with offers from firms that other friends with high grades didn't get a callback to (and vice versa), and it really does come down to fit. Some firms are uptight, some are very laid back; some nerdy, some hardcore bro-y. It's nearly impossible to tell until you go in and meet them, and you may well -- as I did -- walk out of some callbacks thinking "good lord I would never want to work with these people" even if you thought the firm was perfect on paper going in. You may well -- as I did -- end up getting and accepting an offer from a firm you knew only by reputation but ended up clicking perfectly with everyone in it. I'm in a small high-profile east coast market and I have friends who are working at peer firms right now and I can tell that each of us have personalities that strongly align with the personality of our respective firms. It wasn't about who had the best grades or the most prestigious resume. It really came down to where we fit in.

So: no matter where your grades are, how great your softs are, how good your WE is, how many bid slots you have, apply apply apply. Mass mail. Call every favor. Pursue every connection. Do whatever it takes to get your butt into more interview seats. Be yourself, but be polite, earnest, and affable, and you'll find a firm that clicks with you (and vice versa). It's almost impossible to know which one that will be before you go in and meet them, so keep an open mind. But that's really all it takes, and all it comes down to.




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