Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

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Grizz
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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby Grizz » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:17 am

Cupidity wrote:Get onto a journal. Even a secondary journal. It seems to me that the importance of having it has gone up recently, I was top 10% at BU/BC and had a ton of interviews and got no offers. I called a few of my callback interviewers to ask for feedback, and they all said they loved me, but they only took journal candidates.

Interesting. I know 2 people without journal, pretty good grades, ended up in bigtex and V5 office in DC. Doesn't mean people with good grades, and no journal, and no offer at my school don't exist.

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby Cupidity » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:28 am

Grizz wrote:
Cupidity wrote:Get onto a journal. Even a secondary journal. It seems to me that the importance of having it has gone up recently, I was top 10% at BU/BC and had a ton of interviews and got no offers. I called a few of my callback interviewers to ask for feedback, and they all said they loved me, but they only took journal candidates.

Interesting. I know 2 people without journal, pretty good grades, ended up in bigtex and V5 office in DC. Doesn't mean people with good grades, and no journal, and no offer at my school don't exist.


Litigation or Corporate? I think that is an important distinction. All the high-gpa/journalless strikeouts pursued lit. Moral of the story is, if you don't get onto a journal, say you want Corporate.

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby Grizz » Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:27 am

Cupidity wrote:
Grizz wrote:
Cupidity wrote:Get onto a journal. Even a secondary journal. It seems to me that the importance of having it has gone up recently, I was top 10% at BU/BC and had a ton of interviews and got no offers. I called a few of my callback interviewers to ask for feedback, and they all said they loved me, but they only took journal candidates.

Interesting. I know 2 people without journal, pretty good grades, ended up in bigtex and V5 office in DC. Doesn't mean people with good grades, and no journal, and no offer at my school don't exist.


Litigation or Corporate? I think that is an important distinction. All the high-gpa/journalless strikeouts pursued lit. Moral of the story is, if you don't get onto a journal, say you want Corporate.

Not sure, but I think corporate for both, but wouldn't be surprised if they told me lit. So your theory may be correct.

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:12 am

Anonymous User wrote:On underbidding: I think that people flocked to the "least-selective" firms, which resulted in fewer interviews per bid. It seems the secret ninja bidding technique was to use your weakest bids on super-selective firms, because most people are panicking and going for what sound like the least-selective.

Of course, this is all much easier said than done, when career services doesn't really tell you what firms have what GPA floors and what hiring preferences. I get the impression that at my T14, 25% or so was the magic number for many firms, but I really don't know.

I'll also add in a twelfth point:

12. When you get dinged, ask for feedback. You'll get a lot of silence, but some will respond, and their feedback can be enlightening. Most alumni want to help you, even if they're constrained by the number of callbacks they can give out, and if you ask (emphasizing that you're just looking for advice for future interviews, not trying to argue with them about your rejection) I find some will give you very candid and helpful responses. (Even if it kind of makes you want to kill them or yourself, it's good of them to be willing to be honest rather than taking the easy way out and saying "Oh, you were fine, too many qualified applicants, blah blah, you're awesome! Really, you may have just been slightly too good for our humble firm, and your resume intimidated us!")


Added while posting:
RVP11 wrote:Dude, a lot of the firms in the V15 will call back down to MVP's medianish if you can rock the interviews. Notably, STB, Skadden, and Weil aren't super anally selective on grades. Debevoise and Paul Weiss used to go down almost as far and still probably do occasionally. WilmerHale (V16?) is another one.

The ones who generally don't are W&C, Munger, Irell, CSM, S&C, Cleary, Gibson, K&E. I hear conflicting stories about DPW.


See, it's this kind of data that really helps. Why career services doesn't tell you this kind of thing is beyond me. Sheer laziness, I suppose, but wow, that is some incredible laziness. Would it fucking kill them to assemble a booklet with data on apparent/announced GPA floors and other hiring preferences info?


The ninja-bidding is SO CREDITED. Basically, towards the end of your bidding, just bid on the huge interview pools unless you're literally bottom 20%. Those are the only interviews you can get at that stage of the game anyway. They are practice, or a long shot. Sometimes, that gamble pays off.

Also, credited on the 'have answers to the top four questions'-- these are the questions that you will be asked over and over. Think of interesting answers that will invite conversation. Practice them with your friends, OCS counselors, and anyone else that will listen to you. The answers should trip off your tongue.

1) "tell me about yourself" -- your elevator speech. Make it interesting. Throw in some tidbits that suggest you are driven/ interesting
2) "why law school." Leave out the part where you want to get rich.
3) what can I tell you about this firm? -- IMO this is the key question. OCS gave me the excellent advice that you shouldn't ask "what's in it for me" questions. ("Would you consider the firm a 'teaching' firm?" ) also avoid questions that can be answered by looking at the website. Ask about staffing, about work they gave their SA, etc.
4) Know what you'd say about your strengths and weaknesses if asked. Avoid the "perfectionism" answer. Also, multiple times, I was asked the question, "Why should I hire you." If you can come up with a confident response to that question instead of just balking and deliver it cogently and confidently, it will do wonders for you. I'm not kidding. Questions like "why should I hire you" or "what do you want me to remember about you?" are practically designed to make you squirm. If you can look them in the eye and tell them about your strengths (modestly) that can go a long way.


Other advice I would give someone going into OCI includes:
* be really tidy. Don't carry a backpack or a purse with stuff hanging out of it. Invest in a structured stachel or briefcase and keep everything in it. Either that or one of those pad-folios. The downside of those is there's nowhere to put your phone, etc. Don't just stuff your pockets with your extra stuff. We can see that crap bulging all over the place out of your pockets. It looks awful.
* spend some money on a suit. you can tell the cheap ones from the expensive ones. You're going $150k in the hole for this education, spend an extra $300-400 in the interest of getting a job.
* lose weight over the summer if you need to. I hate to sound so superficial, but attractiveness makes a difference in the hiring process and you will feel more confident.
* ladies, put on some hose. Yes, it's a pain. It's also only three days of your life.
* men: shave. You don't look better/older/ more professional with your goatee/beard/ fuzz/stache/whatever. Facial hair is unprofessional.
* ladies, tie your hair back unless it's shorter than chin-length.
* visit the hospitality suite of every firm you are interviewing with, some of them literally tick your name off on a list to note you made the effort.
* related to the end of point #4 above, don't ever be apologetic. Some of us have better grades, some of us have worse grades. That doesn't mean a whole lot about what you have to offer a firm, and you need to believe that while you're interviewing.
* this is controversial on these boards, but I'm going to say what worked for me (below median, probably bottom 30%, multiple V10 offers): if your grades suck, and they ask you if there's anything you can improve on or "how law school went" -- I addressed my grades head-on in every interview that I was given the opportunity to do so, and it paid off like crazy. I just said, " i'm still getting used to the LS exam format and how quickly you have to move through the issues... I like to treat things in more depth." It paid off like crazy. If your grades are not good, you need to show them that you're very smart and it's just not your cup of tea. Also indicate willingness/intent to learn and improve.
*ETA: Also controversial on these boards but merits mention: leave your 3-karat engagement rock (anything bigger than 1/2 kt in my opinion) at home for these interviews. Ditto the birkin, rolex, louboutins, etc. I don't care if you bought it with your bonus when you worked at Goldman, or whatever. Leave it at home. It doesn't make you look like you're sophisticated/successful. It makes you look like a spoiled kept brat with bad judgment.

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby Blindmelon » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:05 am

Cupidity wrote:Get onto a journal. Even a secondary journal. It seems to me that the importance of having it has gone up recently, I was top 10% at BU/BC and had a ton of interviews and got no offers. I called a few of my callback interviewers to ask for feedback, and they all said they loved me, but they only took journal candidates.


Top 10% and no offers? Jesus. Did you also bid too high or only on Boston? If you want to work at a bigfirm, I know a few people who got offers around this time as a few firms didn't predict yield well-enough and there are still good mid-sized firms in the area. Also, 3L OCI is not easy, but 4 or 5 people I know got offers through it.

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:36 pm

Blindmelon wrote:
Cupidity wrote:Get onto a journal. Even a secondary journal. It seems to me that the importance of having it has gone up recently, I was top 10% at BU/BC and had a ton of interviews and got no offers. I called a few of my callback interviewers to ask for feedback, and they all said they loved me, but they only took journal candidates.


Top 10% and no offers? Jesus. Did you also bid too high or only on Boston? If you want to work at a bigfirm, I know a few people who got offers around this time as a few firms didn't predict yield well-enough and there are still good mid-sized firms in the area. Also, 3L OCI is not easy, but 4 or 5 people I know got offers through it.


I had 22 screening interviews that ran the gambit from Chadbourne & Parke and Foley Hoag, all the way up to Cravath and Ropes. I had a respectable 5 CB's, and I followed up with several employers after being rejected. Nutter and Foley said they thought I was overqualified and would end up at GP or Ropes; GP (post call-back) said that I was underqualified and that they only took LR members for Lit. I feel like I just fell through the cracks.

However, I just scored a dream job at a DC boutique in my desired practice area, it only pays $900 a week, but it will be humane hours, and what I've always wanted to do. The firm is also very reputable in it's field, and I have a stellar rec. from a Federal Judge from 1L, so I think Fed. Dist. Ct. clerkships are a realistic possibility if I don't secure an offer.

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby Geetar Man » Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:44 pm

tag

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Blindmelon
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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby Blindmelon » Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:22 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:
Cupidity wrote:Get onto a journal. Even a secondary journal. It seems to me that the importance of having it has gone up recently, I was top 10% at BU/BC and had a ton of interviews and got no offers. I called a few of my callback interviewers to ask for feedback, and they all said they loved me, but they only took journal candidates.


Top 10% and no offers? Jesus. Did you also bid too high or only on Boston? If you want to work at a bigfirm, I know a few people who got offers around this time as a few firms didn't predict yield well-enough and there are still good mid-sized firms in the area. Also, 3L OCI is not easy, but 4 or 5 people I know got offers through it.


I had 22 screening interviews that ran the gambit from Chadbourne & Parke and Foley Hoag, all the way up to Cravath and Ropes. I had a respectable 5 CB's, and I followed up with several employers after being rejected. Nutter and Foley said they thought I was overqualified and would end up at GP or Ropes; GP (post call-back) said that I was underqualified and that they only took LR members for Lit. I feel like I just fell through the cracks.

However, I just scored a dream job at a DC boutique in my desired practice area, it only pays $900 a week, but it will be humane hours, and what I've always wanted to do. The firm is also very reputable in it's field, and I have a stellar rec. from a Federal Judge from 1L, so I think Fed. Dist. Ct. clerkships are a realistic possibility if I don't secure an offer.


Congrats on the DC job - not an easy market to break into from BU. I had two friends who had very similar experiences... tons of callbacks from all different tiers of firms - Cleary, Skadden, all the way down to Boston midsized, but ended up with nothing. I think the Nutter/FH thing is an outgrowth of what happened last year. Those firms are awesome, but try to get the top 10%ers who usually end up at GP/Wilmer/Ropes. Choate gave like 7 offers to BU people last year, and only 1 took it. Also, GP is full of it. Yes, its competitive to get an offer there, but there are plenty of non-LR people that summered there and want to do lit.

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby 005618502 » Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:54 pm

Nice posting OP!

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:54 pm

RVP11 wrote:
Veyron wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Be wary of underbidding as well as overbidding. I'm slightly below median at Penn and got callbacks into the v15.


IP? URM?


Dude, a lot of the firms in the V15 will call back down to MVP's medianish if you can rock the interviews. Notably, STB, Skadden, and Weil aren't super anally selective on grades. Debevoise and Paul Weiss used to go down almost as far and still probably do occasionally. WilmerHale (V16?) is another one.

The ones who generally don't are W&C, Munger, Irell, CSM, S&C, Cleary, Gibson, K&E. I hear conflicting stories about DPW.


I think information like this should be taken with a grain of salt. I agree that those firms have a reputation for being grade-selective, but I got offers at two of these with median grades, secondary journal at T14. If you rock those interviews, grades aren't everything. If you think your grades aren't representative of your abilities, and you can back it up in some way, be ambitious!

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby LawIdiot86 » Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:02 pm

Blindmelon wrote:
Cupidity wrote:Get onto a journal. Even a secondary journal. It seems to me that the importance of having it has gone up recently, I was top 10% at BU/BC and had a ton of interviews and got no offers. I called a few of my callback interviewers to ask for feedback, and they all said they loved me, but they only took journal candidates.


Top 10% and no offers? Jesus. Did you also bid too high or only on Boston? If you want to work at a bigfirm, I know a few people who got offers around this time as a few firms didn't predict yield well-enough and there are still good mid-sized firms in the area. Also, 3L OCI is not easy, but 4 or 5 people I know got offers through it.


Two friends at my T14, top third and top 10%, neither got offers and both bid wisely on regions and firms they would match well with. The ten percent-er said he had interviewers come out and tell him they loved him, but they couldn't call back someone if the "journal" box wasn't checked.

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby rv11 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:14 pm

Lincoln wrote:Things I wish I knew (that is contrary to most "common knowledge" on TLS):
(1) Your 1L summer gig can land you a SA with a firm everyone tells you you have no business even bidding on.
(2) Bidding very aggressively is a gamble that may well pay off.
(3) Being a good interviewer can be more valuable than grades.
(4) Once you have callbacks, it's a total crapshoot which firms actually give you offers.
(5) Being yourself is more important than being a boring, straight-A law student.
(6) Valuable pre-law school work experience is worth +.3 GPA ITE


Can you elaborate on why you think this? What kind of job would it have to be?

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:32 am

SpiteFence wrote:
RVP11 wrote:A) Don't trust the "cutoffs" firms list on Symplicity. They're in no way based on reality.

B) DO talk to career services about firms' traditional callback ranges. If XYZ firm's lowest callback last year was .1 or .2 higher than you in GPA, you probably have no business bidding on them. Also, pay more attention to firms' LOWEST callback GPA rather than their AVERAGE callback GPA, which often skews high.


Well no harm no foul because I still got one of my top firms, but I really wish I would have known this prior to OCI. Lurking 1Ls take notice.


noted :)

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby bjsesq » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:36 am

Cupidity wrote:
Grizz wrote:
Cupidity wrote:Get onto a journal. Even a secondary journal. It seems to me that the importance of having it has gone up recently, I was top 10% at BU/BC and had a ton of interviews and got no offers. I called a few of my callback interviewers to ask for feedback, and they all said they loved me, but they only took journal candidates.

Interesting. I know 2 people without journal, pretty good grades, ended up in bigtex and V5 office in DC. Doesn't mean people with good grades, and no journal, and no offer at my school don't exist.


Litigation or Corporate? I think that is an important distinction. All the high-gpa/journalless strikeouts pursued lit. Moral of the story is, if you don't get onto a journal, say you want Corporate.


No journal. Lit secure. Anecdotal, sure. But it's not really as big of a deal as you think.

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:41 am

The most crucial aspect of my recruiting season was massmailing. If I had relied on what I got out of OCI I would have cost myself $25k/yr in salary and would be working in my second-choice region. Massmailing isn't just for people who are going to strike out. It's very unlikely that every single firm you want to work for (or would be equally happy working for) will come to your OCI (or come for the city you want to be in).

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby rad lulz » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:50 am

.
Last edited by rad lulz on Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby r6_philly » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:10 am

My advice is to go a good job target mailing firms you want (targeted letters/resume) for 1L summer. I don't have to bid any most of my target firms for the upcoming OCI because of invitation to direct apply during/before the summer. Makes bidding must easier.

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby keg411 » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:23 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:The most crucial aspect of my recruiting season was massmailing. If I had relied on what I got out of OCI I would have cost myself $25k/yr in salary and would be working in my second-choice region. Massmailing isn't just for people who are going to strike out. It's very unlikely that every single firm you want to work for (or would be equally happy working for) will come to your OCI (or come for the city you want to be in).

+1

And don't wait until after you strike out. It's too late. By the time I realized I got rejected from 18 OCI interviews, I had plenty more CBs from mass mailing my home market.


+1. Mass mail at the end of July to every firm you would want to work at that isn't coming to OCI. Then after OCI, follow up with all of the firms you mass mailed that you hadn't heard from.

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby existenz » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:2) Don't waste bids on LA/SF unless you're really sure you know what you're doing and you have ties to CA. Otherwise, they're not going to call you back.

This is just bullshit advice. I know two people who got SF/SV biglaw with no CA ties. They were not grilled about CA. And no, they did not have stellar grades or engineering degrees.

Meanwhile, NY firms did ask the "why NY" question.

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:31 pm

rv11 wrote:
Lincoln wrote:Things I wish I knew (that is contrary to most "common knowledge" on TLS):
(1) Your 1L summer gig can land you a SA with a firm everyone tells you you have no business even bidding on.
(2) Bidding very aggressively is a gamble that may well pay off.
(3) Being a good interviewer can be more valuable than grades.
(4) Once you have callbacks, it's a total crapshoot which firms actually give you offers.
(5) Being yourself is more important than being a boring, straight-A law student.
(6) Valuable pre-law school work experience is worth +.3 GPA ITE


Can you elaborate on why you think this? What kind of job would it have to be?


Not the quoted poster above, but I absolutely agree with #1. I worked for an extremely small, but strong lit boutique my 1L summer. I was able to translate that experience (and their offer to have me return part-time during the year) into a great interview with a strong lit firm (think Quinn, Boies, similar). Will be an SA there this summer even though my GPA should have made me an auto-reject.

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby jackattack17 » Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:17 pm

bump...

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:03 am

So, about the suit.

I know you're supposed to have a nice suit, but I don't know what a nice suit is supposed to be like. How much should it cost? What stores? Is one from Macy's ok?


Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:On underbidding: I think that people flocked to the "least-selective" firms, which resulted in fewer interviews per bid. It seems the secret ninja bidding technique was to use your weakest bids on super-selective firms, because most people are panicking and going for what sound like the least-selective.

Of course, this is all much easier said than done, when career services doesn't really tell you what firms have what GPA floors and what hiring preferences. I get the impression that at my T14, 25% or so was the magic number for many firms, but I really don't know.

I'll also add in a twelfth point:

12. When you get dinged, ask for feedback. You'll get a lot of silence, but some will respond, and their feedback can be enlightening. Most alumni want to help you, even if they're constrained by the number of callbacks they can give out, and if you ask (emphasizing that you're just looking for advice for future interviews, not trying to argue with them about your rejection) I find some will give you very candid and helpful responses. (Even if it kind of makes you want to kill them or yourself, it's good of them to be willing to be honest rather than taking the easy way out and saying "Oh, you were fine, too many qualified applicants, blah blah, you're awesome! Really, you may have just been slightly too good for our humble firm, and your resume intimidated us!")


Added while posting:
RVP11 wrote:Dude, a lot of the firms in the V15 will call back down to MVP's medianish if you can rock the interviews. Notably, STB, Skadden, and Weil aren't super anally selective on grades. Debevoise and Paul Weiss used to go down almost as far and still probably do occasionally. WilmerHale (V16?) is another one.

The ones who generally don't are W&C, Munger, Irell, CSM, S&C, Cleary, Gibson, K&E. I hear conflicting stories about DPW.


See, it's this kind of data that really helps. Why career services doesn't tell you this kind of thing is beyond me. Sheer laziness, I suppose, but wow, that is some incredible laziness. Would it fucking kill them to assemble a booklet with data on apparent/announced GPA floors and other hiring preferences info?


The ninja-bidding is SO CREDITED. Basically, towards the end of your bidding, just bid on the huge interview pools unless you're literally bottom 20%. Those are the only interviews you can get at that stage of the game anyway. They are practice, or a long shot. Sometimes, that gamble pays off.

Also, credited on the 'have answers to the top four questions'-- these are the questions that you will be asked over and over. Think of interesting answers that will invite conversation. Practice them with your friends, OCS counselors, and anyone else that will listen to you. The answers should trip off your tongue.

1) "tell me about yourself" -- your elevator speech. Make it interesting. Throw in some tidbits that suggest you are driven/ interesting
2) "why law school." Leave out the part where you want to get rich.
3) what can I tell you about this firm? -- IMO this is the key question. OCS gave me the excellent advice that you shouldn't ask "what's in it for me" questions. ("Would you consider the firm a 'teaching' firm?" ) also avoid questions that can be answered by looking at the website. Ask about staffing, about work they gave their SA, etc.
4) Know what you'd say about your strengths and weaknesses if asked. Avoid the "perfectionism" answer. Also, multiple times, I was asked the question, "Why should I hire you." If you can come up with a confident response to that question instead of just balking and deliver it cogently and confidently, it will do wonders for you. I'm not kidding. Questions like "why should I hire you" or "what do you want me to remember about you?" are practically designed to make you squirm. If you can look them in the eye and tell them about your strengths (modestly) that can go a long way.


Other advice I would give someone going into OCI includes:
* be really tidy. Don't carry a backpack or a purse with stuff hanging out of it. Invest in a structured stachel or briefcase and keep everything in it. Either that or one of those pad-folios. The downside of those is there's nowhere to put your phone, etc. Don't just stuff your pockets with your extra stuff. We can see that crap bulging all over the place out of your pockets. It looks awful.
* spend some money on a suit. you can tell the cheap ones from the expensive ones. You're going $150k in the hole for this education, spend an extra $300-400 in the interest of getting a job.
* lose weight over the summer if you need to. I hate to sound so superficial, but attractiveness makes a difference in the hiring process and you will feel more confident.
* ladies, put on some hose. Yes, it's a pain. It's also only three days of your life.
* men: shave. You don't look better/older/ more professional with your goatee/beard/ fuzz/stache/whatever. Facial hair is unprofessional.
* ladies, tie your hair back unless it's shorter than chin-length.
* visit the hospitality suite of every firm you are interviewing with, some of them literally tick your name off on a list to note you made the effort.
* related to the end of point #4 above, don't ever be apologetic. Some of us have better grades, some of us have worse grades. That doesn't mean a whole lot about what you have to offer a firm, and you need to believe that while you're interviewing.
* this is controversial on these boards, but I'm going to say what worked for me (below median, probably bottom 30%, multiple V10 offers): if your grades suck, and they ask you if there's anything you can improve on or "how law school went" -- I addressed my grades head-on in every interview that I was given the opportunity to do so, and it paid off like crazy. I just said, " i'm still getting used to the LS exam format and how quickly you have to move through the issues... I like to treat things in more depth." It paid off like crazy. If your grades are not good, you need to show them that you're very smart and it's just not your cup of tea. Also indicate willingness/intent to learn and improve.
*ETA: Also controversial on these boards but merits mention: leave your 3-karat engagement rock (anything bigger than 1/2 kt in my opinion) at home for these interviews. Ditto the birkin, rolex, louboutins, etc. I don't care if you bought it with your bonus when you worked at Goldman, or whatever. Leave it at home. It doesn't make you look like you're sophisticated/successful. It makes you look like a spoiled kept brat with bad judgment.

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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:00 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Not the quoted poster above, but I absolutely agree with #1. I worked for an extremely small, but strong lit boutique my 1L summer. I was able to translate that experience (and their offer to have me return part-time during the year) into a great interview with a strong lit firm (think Quinn, Boies, similar). Will be an SA there this summer even though my GPA should have made me an auto-reject.



Question: Does it matter what sort of litigation the 1L summer experience was? For example, commercial litigation versus personal injury? Or does any strong litigation boutique have potential to give you a boost?

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piccolittle
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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby piccolittle » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:33 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Not the quoted poster above, but I absolutely agree with #1. I worked for an extremely small, but strong lit boutique my 1L summer. I was able to translate that experience (and their offer to have me return part-time during the year) into a great interview with a strong lit firm (think Quinn, Boies, similar). Will be an SA there this summer even though my GPA should have made me an auto-reject.



Question: Does it matter what sort of litigation the 1L summer experience was? For example, commercial litigation versus personal injury? Or does any strong litigation boutique have potential to give you a boost?

It's not even about the type of law or the type of employer (for the most part). I'm working in-house this summer and the name of the company + the fact that they are clients of almost every firm in this market (which I am targeting) has been going pretty far in my mass mails. Also, my supervisor is more concerned with finding me a job than making me do busywork, so almost any time I come to her to ask about a firm she just picks up the phone. She's also been helping me craft my application materials, networking skills, taking me to exclusive client receptions at the firms I want to go to, and doing interview prep with me.

I majorly lucked out but my main point with this is that the common TLS wisdom that "your 1L job doesn't matter as long as it's legal" is SO SO SO WRONG. It can make a huge difference. That is the one thing I would change about TLS advice - everyone should be striving for a 1L job that does the things I mentioned above, but if you don't get something like that, that's when "your 1L job doesn't matter as long as it's legal."

Anonymous User
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Re: Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:55 am

piccolittle wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Not the quoted poster above, but I absolutely agree with #1. I worked for an extremely small, but strong lit boutique my 1L summer. I was able to translate that experience (and their offer to have me return part-time during the year) into a great interview with a strong lit firm (think Quinn, Boies, similar). Will be an SA there this summer even though my GPA should have made me an auto-reject.



Question: Does it matter what sort of litigation the 1L summer experience was? For example, commercial litigation versus personal injury? Or does any strong litigation boutique have potential to give you a boost?

It's not even about the type of law or the type of employer (for the most part). I'm working in-house this summer and the name of the company + the fact that they are clients of almost every firm in this market (which I am targeting) has been going pretty far in my mass mails. Also, my supervisor is more concerned with finding me a job than making me do busywork, so almost any time I come to her to ask about a firm she just picks up the phone. She's also been helping me craft my application materials, networking skills, taking me to exclusive client receptions at the firms I want to go to, and doing interview prep with me.

I majorly lucked out but my main point with this is that the common TLS wisdom that "your 1L job doesn't matter as long as it's legal" is SO SO SO WRONG. It can make a huge difference. That is the one thing I would change about TLS advice - everyone should be striving for a 1L job that does the things I mentioned above, but if you don't get something like that, that's when "your 1L job doesn't matter as long as it's legal."



Amen. I'm a rising 3L. Last summer I worked in-house for a company in a heavily-regulated industry (which I knew I wanted to practice in). It helped me stand out in the screeners at OCI (since there weren't many people who could demonstrate a legit background in this practice). Also, my callbacks were mostly set up with attorneys from this practice group (instead of being w/random associates and partners), who were excited to have a potential summer with demonstrable experience in the field.

So while judicial internship/USAO/public defender experiences may be pretty fungible, not all summer jobs are created equal - and good ones can actually make a TON of difference at OCI.




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