Goverment Positions

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Goverment Positions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 30, 2010 5:32 pm

As a t14 OCI strike-out, I had a couple of questions about government positions. (Yes, I know they are incredibly competitive as well)

1) What agencies, if any, funnel their hiring from 2L summer to permanent employ?

2) With IBR being the most likely conclusion to this illustrious law school career, what is the most likely path to government employment?

3) What government agencies are most likely to lead to a DOJ or U.S. Attorneys job?

4) How unlikely is it to go from a entry-level prosecutors position to US Attorneys/DOJ/other government?

I am pretty clueless about all this so any general help would be greatly appreciated. (I apologize for my ignorance as well)

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Re: Goverment Positions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 30, 2010 5:41 pm

I'm interested in these questions as well (for the same reasons, sadly, though I actually would prefer gov't anyway).

Re: Question 4, are you referring to state prosecutor positions?

imchuckbass58
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Re: Goverment Positions

Postby imchuckbass58 » Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:41 pm

1) What agencies, if any, funnel their hiring from 2L summer to permanent employ?

Check out DOJ SLIP and SEC Summer Honors - both of those do for sure though they're selective (especially the DOJ). Others that either hire directly from 2L interns or heavily favor 2L interns in 3L hiring include the EPA, FTC, Homeland Security, and IRS. There may be others I don't know about. Check out the Arizona Government Guide if you have access through your school.

Keep in mind a lot of these deadlines have either already passed or are coming up very soon (e.g., I think DOJ SLIP hiring is basically over).

2) With IBR being the most likely conclusion to this illustrious law school career, what is the most likely path to government employment?

No idea.

3) What government agencies are most likely to lead to a DOJ or U.S. Attorneys job?

No idea.

4) How unlikely is it to go from a entry-level prosecutors position to US Attorneys/DOJ/other government?

It happens a decent amount, but it's definitely not something to count on. Many AUSAs are former ADAs, but there are so many ADAs that a very small percentage ever become AUSAs.

I'd add that it varies highly by office. SDNY, for example, hires heavily from private practice rather than DA's offices, but there are other districts that look for prior public service/prosecutorial experience.

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Re: Goverment Positions

Postby Blindmelon » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:41 am

Anonymous User wrote:As a t14 OCI strike-out, I had a couple of questions about government positions. (Yes, I know they are incredibly competitive as well)

1) What agencies, if any, funnel their hiring from 2L summer to permanent employ?

You can apply to a few honors programs as a 3L - but these are very competitive. Also, most agencies don't do the 100% offer thing, and are much more selective as to who goes from Summer -> offer.

2) With IBR being the most likely conclusion to this illustrious law school career, what is the most likely path to government employment?

Apply broadly, network like crazy - get relevant WE, even if its low level and try to push your way up. Look a lot outside of "prestigious" gov positions - hit up DOL, etc. Still competitive , but will likely be obtainable with enough luck/persistence.

3) What government agencies are most likely to lead to a DOJ or U.S. Attorneys job?

None are likely - but try to get in somewhere that will be litigation/investigation heavy rather than regulatory.

4) How unlikely is it to go from a entry-level prosecutors position to US Attorneys/DOJ/other government?

Depends totally on the state for AUSA jobs. For Mass, and I hear NYC, its overwhelmingly from biglaw - in Boston especially, seems like most are former Wilmer, GP, etc.


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Re: Goverment Positions

Postby nealric » Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:47 am


Check out DOJ SLIP and SEC Summer Honors - both of those do for sure though they're selective (especially the DOJ)


Deadline for both was a while ago.

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Re: Goverment Positions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:50 pm

How do you distinguish what would be beneficial for a 2L summer as far as marketability, clerkship, or help in future post grad work whether it be DOJ, an Honors, or government work in general?
- With so many offices on this handbook, I don't want to spend my summer at the Department of Education or something and find out that it was totally worthless, but have nothing to base any decisions off of.


[More specifically, just looking at the Arizona Handbook, is there a difference in the "prestige" or just opportunities of EEIC Office of Federal Operations and EEOC Legal Unit (Chicago Division)? Or are they both federal work that will be viewed similarly?]

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Re: Goverment Positions

Postby 83947368 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:40 pm

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Last edited by 83947368 on Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Goverment Positions

Postby emilybeth » Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:54 pm

[omitted]

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Re: Goverment Positions

Postby spanktheduck » Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:45 pm

Adm.Doppleganger wrote:Hey, so I'm not a law school student yet so please forgive my posting in this section, I just wanted to ask something of you's guys.

I read an article on Sonoma County DA's hiring in just last year and found that four out of five of the entry level D.A.'s they hired this year were graduates of third tier law schools. The one that wasn't was a Hastings grad.

I've heard from the attorneys I worked with that even in San Francisco and Oakland they're not very concerned with the school but rather the writing samples, interviews, and intern experience (like three summers in a D.A.'s office).

My question is--do you think that maybe government positions (excluding SEC, DOJ, etc) are truly so prohibitively competitive that those from schools below the T-30 can't get jobs?

I read another article about a USF grad who expected a job with SF DA's office next year. Do you think maybe it's rather a lack of D.A. office/criminal law experience that makes these government positions seem so "competitive" or are these not the "competitive" jobs you are referring to?

I'd appreciate any feedback as I consider how hard I should try to break a 170. Thanks.


Federal gov't gigs are competitive b/c you have top students from top law schools applying to them. This is not to say you can't get the gig being top at a T4 school, but it is harder. What is more impressive. #1 at Harvard or #1 at Seton Hall?

DA jobs are competitve b/c there are few positions open and many applicants. It is true that DA offices care less about law schools but most DA offices probably get 500+ applications (if not over 1000) for under 20/30 spots. The simple numbers make it hard. The reason why most hires are from local T2/3/4 is b/c those are the majority of the applicants.

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Re: Goverment Positions

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:38 pm

Anyone know anything about the EEOC? I know they have an Honors Program but how much would it help if you landed a 2L summer position there? And do they hire out of law school if you don't get into the Honors Program? How difficult is it to land a 2L summer position there and does anyone have any personal experience? I'm really into labor law and haven't found anyone with personal insight into working for them.

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Re: Goverment Positions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:26 pm

I'm not sure about your other questions, but EEOC was very difficult to get last year. I applied around this time of year and even had a former colleague put in a good word but couldn't get an interview (just a nice note saying they had gotten a record number of applications starting in the summer, let alone in the fall). Good luck!

Edit: Sorry, I should clarify I only applied to the NYC office.

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Re: Goverment Positions

Postby underdawg » Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:06 am

my general impression is that fed gov cares much more about prestige, and why not, since many agencies are revolving doors into and out of biglaw? "public service commitment" would be a weird thing to care about, to take a somewhat extreme example, for whoever's in charge of white collar prosecution at AUSA? most of those doods applying want to go back to biglaw as partner. now like bureau of prisons or something, who knows?

state government is mostly not a revolving door into biglaw. i haven't seen a single "ADA" or "PD" line in any biglaw bio i've seen; it's all "AUSA" and "fed defender." people there are probably much more likely to be "lifers" and lifers look for other lifers when interviewing. i've *heard* that ADA --> AUSA happens, but i haven't seen a single ADA --> AUSA --> biglaw or any combination of the three in all the biglaw bios i've seen. the closest thing i've seen is that one partner i interviewed with was a cop...before law school. as for ADA at bumfuck, missouri, i have no idea if only T3/4 grads even apply there, or they are turning down T14 peeps, and if they are if it's because they don't like them, or that all the T14 guys are assholes during interviews.

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Re: Goverment Positions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:45 am

Anonymous User wrote:[More specifically, just looking at the Arizona Handbook, is there a difference in the "prestige" or just opportunities of EEIC Office of Federal Operations and EEOC Legal Unit (Chicago Division)? Or are they both federal work that will be viewed similarly?]


The offices (OFO vs. the various Legal Units in the field districts) have different functions. The Legal Units are the litigation/trial advocacy branch of the agency. The OFO at HQ exclusively handles federal employee issues in more of a neutral/ADR capacity. The differences are more about functions/skill sets than "prestige".

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Re: Goverment Positions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:13 am

Anonymous User wrote: I know they have an Honors Program but how much would it help if you landed a 2L summer position there?

And do they hire out of law school if you don't get into the Honors Program?

How difficult is it to land a 2L summer position there and does anyone have any personal experience?


I did a 2L internship with the EEOC and also applied for the Honors Program. The difficulty of getting a 2L internship varies depending on the division and the office location. Naturally, there's more competition at HQ in DC than, say, the Local Office in Mobile AL not necessarily because DC is a better experience but simply because DC is perceived by law students to be more "prestigious" and just a better city to be in (sorry if this sentence drips with judgment ;)

Considering that there are tons of interns all across the agency, only a handful of HP openings each year, and the fact that the roster of non-HQ offices hiring through HP changes most years, you can't really predict how much a 2L internship will help by the time your HP application time comes around.

The EEOC occasionally hires recent graduates outside of the HP, though they might start at GS-9 instead of GS-11 salary.

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Re: Goverment Positions

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:00 am

Can you please elaborate on your 2L summer with the EEOC? Do you think it’s helping you with finding a job for after graduation? I was offered a position and am on the fence.

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Re: Goverment Positions

Postby ggocat » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:1) What agencies, if any, funnel their hiring from 2L summer to permanent employ?

2) With IBR being the most likely conclusion to this illustrious law school career, what is the most likely path to government employment?

3) What government agencies are most likely to lead to a DOJ or U.S. Attorneys job?

4) How unlikely is it to go from a entry-level prosecutors position to US Attorneys/DOJ/other government?


1. Depends on the office.

2. Government employment not required for IBR, so if you don't want government, don't do it.

3. Other federal agencies and litigation-heavy state/local agencies. Asking about DOJ and USAO is too broad, though. There are many components and many functions within DOJ (and for the record, DOJ includes USAO).

4. I've seen it happen more likely for USAOs than for other components of the DOJ, but it happens for both. DOJ attorneys often handle more specific and more complex cases. So 4 years doing misdemeanors and state felonies in a local DA office will not help you much when applying for ENRD, TAX, or ATR. (But of course you will likely be a more attractive candidate than a newly minted grad who struck out at OCI and is trying to get the job with no prior government experience--note that I assume if you can't get a firm job then you probably won't be competitive for honors program).

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Re: Goverment Positions

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Can you please elaborate on your 2L summer with the EEOC? Do you think it’s helping you with finding a job for after graduation? I was offered a position and am on the fence.


I was an Honors Program hire at a different federal agency which I had also previously worked for. My agency gave me a job offer before the EEOC got their act together to even make interview offers to anyone. I don't recall being asked specifically about my EEOC internship during my interview, so I don't know if it was even a factor in their decision to hire me.

What exactly do you want to know about my EEOC internship? If you tell me which office the position is, and what you want to do after graduation, I can better advise you.

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Re: Goverment Positions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Can you please elaborate on your 2L summer with the EEOC? Do you think it’s helping you with finding a job for after graduation? I was offered a position and am on the fence.


I was an Honors Program hire at a different federal agency which I had also previously worked for. My agency gave me a job offer before the EEOC got their act together to even make interview offers to anyone. I don't recall being asked specifically about my EEOC internship during my interview, so I don't know if it was even a factor in their decision to hire me.

What exactly do you want to know about my EEOC internship? If you tell me which office the position is, and what you want to do after graduation, I can better advise you.


The Office of Federal Operations. Did you do more than legal research and writing? Would you recommend the internship to others? What were the other interns like (T-1 schools, etc)? I definitely want to stay in the Federal government after graduation, hoping for DC!

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Re: Goverment Positions

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:35 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:The Office of Federal Operations. Did you do more than legal research and writing? Would you recommend the internship to others? What were the other interns like (T-1 schools, etc)? I definitely want to stay in the Federal government after graduation, hoping for DC!


I did do more than LRW because of the particular office I worked in, but from what I understand, OFO interns mostly just do LRW for the judges, working on decisions. I do think OFO would be a good experience. I sat in on one of their administrative hearings and thought it was fascinating. However, if you're not specifically interested in the EEO rights of federal employees though (it's a niche sub-field--very different procedure than the private sector), another internship where you can deal with the private sector or get experience in a variety of labor/employment laws might be more beneficial.

In my office, we had 2 T-1 interns, 1 T-2, and 1 T-4. 3 of us were 2Ls, 1 was a 3L.

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Re: Goverment Positions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:The Office of Federal Operations. Did you do more than legal research and writing? Would you recommend the internship to others? What were the other interns like (T-1 schools, etc)? I definitely want to stay in the Federal government after graduation, hoping for DC!


I did do more than LRW because of the particular office I worked in, but from what I understand, OFO interns mostly just do LRW for the judges, working on decisions. I do think OFO would be a good experience. I sat in on one of their administrative hearings and thought it was fascinating. However, if you're not specifically interested in the EEO rights of federal employees though (it's a niche sub-field--very different procedure than the private sector), another internship where you can deal with the private sector or get experience in a variety of labor/employment laws might be more beneficial.

In my office, we had 2 T-1 interns, 1 T-2, and 1 T-4. 3 of us were 2Ls, 1 was a 3L.


Great! Thanks for the info. I want to continue working for the federal government so I see how it may be a valuable step for me. I think I'm going to accept. I guess I was just wondering about how "prestigous" the internship is. Will a government office look at my resume and be impressed with it? Do you think it'll give me a leg up for a job after graduation (or getting into the EEOC Honors program)? How has working for the EEOC opened doors for you/helped you?




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