How to find what each specific firm pays..

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IAFG
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Re: How to find what each specific firm pays..

Postby IAFG » Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:24 pm

RVP11 wrote:
pasteurizedmilk wrote:
RVP11 wrote:ITT: people at the top of the class at UT pine for Bracewell & Giuliani.

Yowza. Things must be rough down there.

umad?


Nowhere near top of my class and I pined for much, much better firms. The magic of T14.

i cringed IRL. the only problem with the legal profession is working with lawyers

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MrKappus
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Re: How to find what each specific firm pays..

Postby MrKappus » Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:27 pm

RVP11 wrote:
pasteurizedmilk wrote:
RVP11 wrote:ITT: people at the top of the class at UT pine for Bracewell & Giuliani.

Yowza. Things must be rough down there.

umad?


Nowhere near top of my class and I pined for much, much better firms. The magic of T14.


Ew.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: How to find what each specific firm pays..

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:28 pm

RVP11 wrote:
pasteurizedmilk wrote:
RVP11 wrote:ITT: people at the top of the class at UT pine for Bracewell & Giuliani.

Yowza. Things must be rough down there.

umad?


Nowhere near top of my class and I pined for much, much better firms. The magic of T14.


Your future is bright.

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RVP11
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Re: How to find what each specific firm pays..

Postby RVP11 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:29 pm

I think we both know that my comment on a UT student who's not far from #1 in the class pining for a Texas firm that is well established as "second-rate" says very little about the ease of getting along with me IRL.

ITT: more TLS ninnies get their panties in a bunch

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: How to find what each specific firm pays..

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:30 pm

RVP11 wrote:I think we both know that my comment on a UT student who's not far from #1 in the class pining for a Texas firm that is well established as "second-rate" says very little about the ease of getting along with me IRL.

ITT: more TLS ninnies get their panties in a bunch


Gift that keeps on giving.

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RVP11
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Re: How to find what each specific firm pays..

Postby RVP11 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:36 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:
RVP11 wrote:I think we both know that my comment on a UT student who's not far from #1 in the class pining for a Texas firm that is well established as "second-rate" says very little about the ease of getting along with me IRL.

ITT: more TLS ninnies get their panties in a bunch


Gift that keeps on giving.


Vacuous response.

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JazzOne
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Re: How to find what each specific firm pays..

Postby JazzOne » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:54 pm

RVP11 wrote:I think we both know that my comment on a UT student who's not far from #1 in the class pining for a Texas firm that is well established as "second-rate" says very little about the ease of getting along with me IRL.

ITT: more TLS ninnies get their panties in a bunch

To be fair, my employment difficulties have little to do with the strength of UT with respect to the T14. One of my best friends in law school has a lower GPA than mine, and he's going to a V20. I just suck at interviewing, and it took me a while to figure out what I was doing. I really hadn't done my homework on the law firms, mainly because biglaw was not my goal. I paid nothing for my law degree, so with an offer above market salary, I feel like I've done well enough not to be jealous of anyone.

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Veyron
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Re: How to find what each specific firm pays..

Postby Veyron » Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:09 pm

^ No shit

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RVP11
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Re: How to find what each specific firm pays..

Postby RVP11 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:59 pm

JazzOne wrote:
RVP11 wrote:I think we both know that my comment on a UT student who's not far from #1 in the class pining for a Texas firm that is well established as "second-rate" says very little about the ease of getting along with me IRL.

ITT: more TLS ninnies get their panties in a bunch

To be fair, my employment difficulties have little to do with the strength of UT with respect to the T14. One of my best friends in law school has a lower GPA than mine, and he's going to a V20. I just suck at interviewing, and it took me a while to figure out what I was doing. I really hadn't done my homework on the law firms, mainly because biglaw was not my goal. I paid nothing for my law degree, so with an offer above market salary, I feel like I've done well enough not to be jealous of anyone.


Understandable. Interviewing ability is the big X factor.

pasteurizedmilk
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Re: How to find what each specific firm pays..

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:41 pm

RVP11 wrote:
pasteurizedmilk wrote:
RVP11 wrote:ITT: people at the top of the class at UT pine for Bracewell & Giuliani.

Yowza. Things must be rough down there.

umad?


Nowhere near top of my class and I pined for much, much better firms. The magic of T14.

:P bro I wasn't poking you for a firm job one way or the other. Amusing how quickly you hopped on a (self-manufactured) chance to show off your job though.

pasteurizedmilk
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Re: How to find what each specific firm pays..

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:42 pm

RVP11 wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
RVP11 wrote:I think we both know that my comment on a UT student who's not far from #1 in the class pining for a Texas firm that is well established as "second-rate" says very little about the ease of getting along with me IRL.

ITT: more TLS ninnies get their panties in a bunch

To be fair, my employment difficulties have little to do with the strength of UT with respect to the T14. One of my best friends in law school has a lower GPA than mine, and he's going to a V20. I just suck at interviewing, and it took me a while to figure out what I was doing. I really hadn't done my homework on the law firms, mainly because biglaw was not my goal. I paid nothing for my law degree, so with an offer above market salary, I feel like I've done well enough not to be jealous of anyone.


Understandable. Interviewing ability is the big X factor.

Yeah it's rough to get a handle on if you're not 1) naturally good at it or 2) have a bunch of experience in professional interviews.

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RVP11
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Re: How to find what each specific firm pays..

Postby RVP11 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:45 pm

pasteurizedmilk wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
pasteurizedmilk wrote:
RVP11 wrote:ITT: people at the top of the class at UT pine for Bracewell & Giuliani.

Yowza. Things must be rough down there.

umad?


Nowhere near top of my class and I pined for much, much better firms. The magic of T14.

:P bro I wasn't poking you for a firm job one way or the other. Amusing how quickly you hopped on a (self-manufactured) chance to show off your job though.


I said nothing about my actual job, though. Just what I dreamed of and was possible.
Last edited by RVP11 on Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

pasteurizedmilk
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Re: How to find what each specific firm pays..

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:47 pm

RVP11 wrote:I said nothing about my actual job, though. Just what I pined for.

End up with a firm you like? Hope so - it was a rough cycle even for T14.

005618502
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Re: How to find what each specific firm pays..

Postby 005618502 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:47 pm

pasteurizedmilk wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
pasteurizedmilk wrote:
RVP11 wrote:ITT: people at the top of the class at UT pine for Bracewell & Giuliani.

Yowza. Things must be rough down there.

umad?


Nowhere near top of my class and I pined for much, much better firms. The magic of T14.

:P bro I wasn't poking you for a firm job one way or the other. Amusing how quickly you hopped on a (self-manufactured) chance to show off your job though.


Can u blame him?

Work hard, get into a great (T-14) school, get good grades. Then you can brag about it too :)
(i havent done this yet, so my bragging will wait haha)

pasteurizedmilk
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Re: How to find what each specific firm pays..

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:51 pm

jt1341 wrote:Work hard, get into a great (T-14) school, get good grades. Then you can brag about it too :)

Check, check, check.

I guess it is nice to be able to "brag" a bit on TLS. Sure as hell can't even talk about it around campus when ~ half the class struck out.

005618502
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Re: How to find what each specific firm pays..

Postby 005618502 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:55 pm

pasteurizedmilk wrote:
jt1341 wrote:Work hard, get into a great (T-14) school, get good grades. Then you can brag about it too :)

Check, check, check.

I guess it is nice to be able to "brag" a bit on TLS. Sure as hell can't even talk about it around campus when ~ half the class struck out.


:/ really half the class at T14 struck out? does this mean half didnt get biglaw? or any kind of real degree worthy work at all?

pasteurizedmilk
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Re: How to find what each specific firm pays..

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:58 pm

jt1341 wrote:
pasteurizedmilk wrote:
jt1341 wrote:Work hard, get into a great (T-14) school, get good grades. Then you can brag about it too :)

Check, check, check.

I guess it is nice to be able to "brag" a bit on TLS. Sure as hell can't even talk about it around campus when ~ half the class struck out.


:/ really half the class at T14 struck out? does this mean half didnt get biglaw? or any kind of real degree worthy work at all?

Just at 2L OCI......which basically means a very large chance of striking out for biglaw entirely. It's not the end of the world, but it requires a substantial change in expectations that not everybody is taking too well.

Are you a 1L or considering law school? If you're a 1L, get off the interwebz and make sure you're not one of these people. :)

005618502
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Re: How to find what each specific firm pays..

Postby 005618502 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:35 pm

pasteurizedmilk wrote:
jt1341 wrote:
pasteurizedmilk wrote:
jt1341 wrote:Work hard, get into a great (T-14) school, get good grades. Then you can brag about it too :)

Check, check, check.

I guess it is nice to be able to "brag" a bit on TLS. Sure as hell can't even talk about it around campus when ~ half the class struck out.


:/ really half the class at T14 struck out? does this mean half didnt get biglaw? or any kind of real degree worthy work at all?

Just at 2L OCI......which basically means a very large chance of striking out for biglaw entirely. It's not the end of the world, but it requires a substantial change in expectations that not everybody is taking too well.

Are you a 1L or considering law school? If you're a 1L, get off the interwebz and make sure you're not one of these people. :)


Last year in undergrad, going to UVA next year. Major senioritis, cant bring myself to do much school work at all lol

Anonymous User
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Re: How to find what each specific firm pays..

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:08 am

jt1341 wrote:
pasteurizedmilk wrote:
jt1341 wrote:Work hard, get into a great (T-14) school, get good grades. Then you can brag about it too :)

Check, check, check.

I guess it is nice to be able to "brag" a bit on TLS. Sure as hell can't even talk about it around campus when ~ half the class struck out.


:/ really half the class at T14 struck out? does this mean half didnt get biglaw? or any kind of real degree worthy work at all?


I think it's not uncommon ITE for about half of a typical T14 class to come up emptyhanded. This was a surprise to me.

Important note: I am not saying that people below-median came up emptyhanded. It's more complicated than that. "40% of the class gets BigLaw" does not mean "the top 40% gets BigLaw". Choice of market, interviewing, mass-mailing, and other factors can play a major role. Some of us learned that the hard way, which is a very unfortunate way to learn it. So, I feel that the standard advice to 1Ls should be expanded from, "Stop posting and go cram for your classes!" to "Stop posting and go cram for your classes, and write a post-it note to talk to people in classes ahead of you during the summer about what you should do for your job search".

005618502
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Re: How to find what each specific firm pays..

Postby 005618502 » Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:30 am

Anonymous User wrote:
jt1341 wrote:
pasteurizedmilk wrote:
jt1341 wrote:Work hard, get into a great (T-14) school, get good grades. Then you can brag about it too :)

Check, check, check.

I guess it is nice to be able to "brag" a bit on TLS. Sure as hell can't even talk about it around campus when ~ half the class struck out.


:/ really half the class at T14 struck out? does this mean half didnt get biglaw? or any kind of real degree worthy work at all?


I think it's not uncommon ITE for about half of a typical T14 class to come up emptyhanded. This was a surprise to me.

Important note: I am not saying that people below-median came up emptyhanded. It's more complicated than that. "40% of the class gets BigLaw" does not mean "the top 40% gets BigLaw". Choice of market, interviewing, mass-mailing, and other factors can play a major role. Some of us learned that the hard way, which is a very unfortunate way to learn it. So, I feel that the standard advice to 1Ls should be expanded from, "Stop posting and go cram for your classes!" to "Stop posting and go cram for your classes, and write a post-it note to talk to people in classes ahead of you during the summer about what you should do for your job search".


The advice is appreciated
Last edited by 005618502 on Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: How to find what each specific firm pays..

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:16 am

jt1341 wrote:
The advice is appreciated. Then again you do have a rediculously high post count.. haha


We are called Anonymous, for we are many.

005618502
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Re: How to find what each specific firm pays..

Postby 005618502 » Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
jt1341 wrote:
The advice is appreciated. Then again you do have a rediculously high post count.. haha


We are called Anonymous, for we are many.


Then again i am retarded and thought that it still showed the individuals post count. But that would greatly hurt the anonymous process. Sorry for the retarded comment!


Edited previous comment lol

pasteurizedmilk
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Re: How to find what each specific firm pays..

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:11 pm

jt1341 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I think it's not uncommon ITE for about half of a typical T14 class to come up emptyhanded. This was a surprise to me.

Important note: I am not saying that people below-median came up emptyhanded. It's more complicated than that. "40% of the class gets BigLaw" does not mean "the top 40% gets BigLaw". Choice of market, interviewing, mass-mailing, and other factors can play a major role. Some of us learned that the hard way, which is a very unfortunate way to learn it. So, I feel that the standard advice to 1Ls should be expanded from, "Stop posting and go cram for your classes!" to "Stop posting and go cram for your classes, and write a post-it note to talk to people in classes ahead of you during the summer about what you should do for your job search".


The advice is appreciated
Take it to heart. Besides grades, the best thing you can do to maximize your chances of getting a job is mass-mailing and prudently picking the markets to focus on.

And be risk-averse. People who only bid on secondary markets and didn't have elite credentials (and even some who did) were often left out in the cold. Even if you think NY is the worst palce in the world, it's your best bet for a job so it's downright illogical to not throw a few dozen applications that way.

And mass mail early.

And don't poke fun at an interviewer's pink shirt (I learned this the hard way).

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JazzOne
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Re: How to find what each specific firm pays..

Postby JazzOne » Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:12 pm

pasteurizedmilk wrote:
jt1341 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I think it's not uncommon ITE for about half of a typical T14 class to come up emptyhanded. This was a surprise to me.

Important note: I am not saying that people below-median came up emptyhanded. It's more complicated than that. "40% of the class gets BigLaw" does not mean "the top 40% gets BigLaw". Choice of market, interviewing, mass-mailing, and other factors can play a major role. Some of us learned that the hard way, which is a very unfortunate way to learn it. So, I feel that the standard advice to 1Ls should be expanded from, "Stop posting and go cram for your classes!" to "Stop posting and go cram for your classes, and write a post-it note to talk to people in classes ahead of you during the summer about what you should do for your job search".


The advice is appreciated
Take it to heart. Besides grades, the best thing you can do to maximize your chances of getting a job is mass-mailing and prudently picking the markets to focus on.

And be risk-averse. People who only bid on secondary markets and didn't have elite credentials (and even some who did) were often left out in the cold. Even if you think NY is the worst palce in the world, it's your best bet for a job so it's downright illogical to not throw a few dozen applications that way.

And mass mail early.

And don't poke fun at an interviewer's pink shirt (I learned this the hard way).

+1

Apply broadly. I had terrific grades first semester, so I only bid on top firms with market salary. I almost got shut out. Near the end of the hiring season, I was starting to regret my bidding strategy.

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Re: How to find what each specific firm pays..

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:38 pm

What I should have done in retrospect, as someone who hates NY and has good T14 grades:

* Hunt down data from other law schools, etc. to figure out as much as I could about different firms' hiring models. (I assumed it was a relatively uncomplicated grade-based system. I now suspect there's some variety: some are pure GPA, some have rough categories but don't distinguish much within them, some just have a cutoff and then focus on personality and other "soft" measures, etc.)
* Use lower bids for more competitive firms; people tended to target only what they thought were the least-selective firms. You could pick up tons of interviews with firms that (see above) might actually be quite realistic.
* Even if NYC isn't worth bids, it's probably worth mass-mailing. There's nothing illegal about sending your resume, transcript, cover letter, and writing sample to the V100's NY offices (or whatever). Free trips to New York.
* Identify other markets to mass-mail. I still do not understand why people say it's a horrible idea to try to target multiple markets. The only reason I could see it being problematic would be if some firm asked you and doubted your desire to work in their city because you're also applying to some other markets.
* Interviews are not just resume-drops. However, they're also not what OCS describes them as. They're mostly a chance for an amicable back-and-forth to let them get an idea of your personality. Socializing with concise comments about your suitability for the job.
* Writing sample. They probably want one. Get one or two ready to go beforehand.
* Work alumni contacts (both law school and UG): find a few and see if they'd be willing to talk to you about their firm and other firms in the area.

The vagaries of automated lottery systems mean you might end up with a very small number of OCIs. But you can use mass-mailing to score extras and reduce your vulnerability to random chance.




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