hardest market to land a legal job?

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Veyron
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Re: hardest market to land a legal job?

Postby Veyron » Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:21 pm

San Diego should probably make this list.

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rayiner
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Re: hardest market to land a legal job?

Postby rayiner » Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:21 pm

pasteurizedmilk wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
pasteurizedmilk wrote:Depends on your particular circumstance. If you're trying to break into a smaller market w/o substantial ties, it's going to be a lot harder than NY (and probably harder even if you do have strong ties).

In the aggregate though, I'd say DC. A TON of people want to work there and there really aren't that many positions. I know people w/ V20 offers in NY who struck out entirely in DC......it's not uncommon at all, TBH.[



Building off that, I know people with DC jobs who struck out in Chicago.

I can see how Chicago would be a tough nut to crack as well. A HUGE city with a relatively small legal market is a horrible combination for hopeful SAs. Plus there's two local T14s and a few other good local schools.


Chicago used to have a pretty big SA crop (about 800+ a few years ago, plenty for the ~250 local T14 students and assorted T1/T2 students).

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Re: hardest market to land a legal job?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
conn09 wrote:
It's barely bigger than Tampa's and Tampa's summer classes are next to non existent. of the 13 NALP firms in Tampa all but 3 are only taking 1 person. Then, most of the Tampa firms have offices in Miami, which prevents double dipping.


The fact that T14ers with median grades and ties aren't having problems in Miami still blows a hole in your "Florida = toughest legal market" argument.


I can't compare Florida with other markets because I only know about Florida, but I can tell you that are top 5% LR people at U of Florida, U Miami, and FSU aren't exactly killing it in-state. Yes, there are people who have found SA jobs, but there are certainly people with excellent credentials who haven't... and I'm talking about all the Florida markets. And maybe a couple median UVA people have scooped up a couple positions, but I suspect that is the exception, not the rule. The fact is, Florida has been hit really hard in this economy, and a lot of Florida law firms are hurting, especially those with large real estate practices. I was talking with a former partner who Fowler White who told me the firm used to hire 15 SAs for the summer... I just about laughed when I heard that. There's just not that many SA spots to go around.

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Re: hardest market to land a legal job?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:05 pm

There's just not that many SA spots to go around.


I think that's true of every market this year, with the exception of NYC

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Re: hardest market to land a legal job?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
There's just not that many SA spots to go around.


I think that's true of every market this year, with the exception of NYC

It still holds true in NYC, although seemingly to a lesser extent compared to DC/SF/Chi. Apart from the couple V10 firms that have increased summer class sizes by a healthy amount, many firms will have summer classes that are 25-30% of what they formerly had. Anecdotally, my V50 is only taking a class numbering in the low 20s, but had ~80-90 in the glory days.

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Re: hardest market to land a legal job?

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:34 pm

rayiner wrote:
pasteurizedmilk wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
pasteurizedmilk wrote:Depends on your particular circumstance. If you're trying to break into a smaller market w/o substantial ties, it's going to be a lot harder than NY (and probably harder even if you do have strong ties).

In the aggregate though, I'd say DC. A TON of people want to work there and there really aren't that many positions. I know people w/ V20 offers in NY who struck out entirely in DC......it's not uncommon at all, TBH.[



Building off that, I know people with DC jobs who struck out in Chicago.

I can see how Chicago would be a tough nut to crack as well. A HUGE city with a relatively small legal market is a horrible combination for hopeful SAs. Plus there's two local T14s and a few other good local schools.


Chicago used to have a pretty big SA crop (about 800+ a few years ago, plenty for the ~250 local T14 students and assorted T1/T2 students).

How was it for non-Chicago area T14 students back when?

conn09
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Re: hardest market to land a legal job?

Postby conn09 » Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
conn09 wrote:
It's barely bigger than Tampa's and Tampa's summer classes are next to non existent. of the 13 NALP firms in Tampa all but 3 are only taking 1 person. Then, most of the Tampa firms have offices in Miami, which prevents double dipping.


The fact that T14ers with median grades and ties aren't having problems in Miami still blows a hole in your "Florida = toughest legal market" argument.



Not really, how many T-14ers are actually in Miami? And once again, not everyone wants to go to Miami. So, should I have been more specific and stated that Tampa is. There are multiple people at HYS who are being rejected from Tampa firms. Due to the fact that there are like 15 spots in the entire city and there is strong regional preference for in state schools.

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rayiner
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Re: hardest market to land a legal job?

Postby rayiner » Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:45 pm

pasteurizedmilk wrote:Chicago used to have a pretty big SA crop (about 800+ a few years ago, plenty for the ~250 local T14 students and assorted T1/T2 students).

How was it for non-Chicago area T14 students back when?[/quote]

Chicago was always a market that required ties, but it had a lot of SA spots relative to how many people wanted to work there.

For summer 2006, Chicago class sizes:

Skadden: 30
Latham: 39
Kirkland: 70
Sidley: 82

221 slots just within the Vault 20. Tons more at places like Jenner, Winston, McDermott, etc.

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Re: hardest market to land a legal job?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:07 pm

Boston bro, it's brutal.

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Re: hardest market to land a legal job?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:22 pm

conn09 wrote:There are multiple people at HYS who are being rejected from Tampa firms. Due to the fact that there are like 15 spots in the entire city and there is strong regional preference for in state schools.


LOL. How many HYS people are gunning for Tampa firms? How do you know they're being rejected? If they're being rejected, is it because of lack of ties?

One of the things that the true toughest markets have in common is that they are widely desired (see: Seattle, Denver, San Diego, Charlotte). Tampa doesn't fit.

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Re: hardest market to land a legal job?

Postby conn09 » Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
conn09 wrote:There are multiple people at HYS who are being rejected from Tampa firms. Due to the fact that there are like 15 spots in the entire city and there is strong regional preference for in state schools.


LOL. How many HYS people are gunning for Tampa firms? How do you know they're being rejected? If they're being rejected, is it because of lack of ties?

One of the things that the true toughest markets have in common is that they are widely desired (see: Seattle, Denver, San Diego, Charlotte). Tampa doesn't fit.


4 from 1 of HYS. And all of them went to High School in Tampa and have immediate family there.

I like the qualification of "true toughest" market.

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Re: hardest market to land a legal job?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
There's just not that many SA spots to go around.


I think that's true of every market this year, with the exception of NYC

It still holds true in NYC, although seemingly to a lesser extent compared to DC/SF/Chi. Apart from the couple V10 firms that have increased summer class sizes by a healthy amount, many firms will have summer classes that are 25-30% of what they formerly had. Anecdotally, my V50 is only taking a class numbering in the low 20s, but had ~80-90 in the glory days.


I also interviewed with v50 firms in New York and received similar responses after asking recruiting. All the firms I interviewed with are having summer class sizes between 15 and 25, whereas in the past they used to have 3-5 times as many summer associates. I personally think that the reduced class sizes are the new norm for firms.

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20160810
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Re: hardest market to land a legal job?

Postby 20160810 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:32 am

I got completely shut out in Seattle.

pasteurizedmilk
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Re: hardest market to land a legal job?

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:01 am

SBL wrote:I got completely shut out in Seattle.
Ties to Seattle?

Did you end up with a job elsewhere? Just curious since that helps indicate how harsh Seattle really is.

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Blindmelon
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Re: hardest market to land a legal job?

Postby Blindmelon » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:09 am

What school/whats the curve?

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JazzOne
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Re: hardest market to land a legal job?

Postby JazzOne » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:10 am

pasteurizedmilk wrote:
SBL wrote:I got completely shut out in Seattle.
Ties to Seattle?

Did you end up with a job elsewhere? Just curious since that helps indicate how harsh Seattle really is.

I'm curious where you ended up too, SBL. Give us a range of cities and firms if you don't want to out yourself.

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Bosque
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Re: hardest market to land a legal job?

Postby Bosque » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:38 am

SBL wrote:I got completely shut out in Seattle.


So did I. Only applied to two firms in Seattle though. :P

I am curious as to how the hardest market measurements apply to IP people. At least for me, DC was much more friendly than some other markets. However, that could just be because I didn't apply to as many places in other markets as I did in DC. Or because of the fact that I have no significant ties anywhere. Dunno.

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rayiner
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Re: hardest market to land a legal job?

Postby rayiner » Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:50 pm

Bosque wrote:
SBL wrote:I got completely shut out in Seattle.


So did I. Only applied to two firms in Seattle though. :P

I am curious as to how the hardest market measurements apply to IP people. At least for me, DC was much more friendly than some other markets. However, that could just be because I didn't apply to as many places in other markets as I did in DC. Or because of the fact that I have no significant ties anywhere. Dunno.


IP is a different world. DC is way easier with an IP background, not just because of all the IP boutiques, but because even the big firms like Covington have IP departments and there is just less competition for those slots. Same with Chicago... there are no SA slots here, but all the firms are still hiring IP people.

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20160810
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Re: hardest market to land a legal job?

Postby 20160810 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:25 pm

JazzOne wrote:
pasteurizedmilk wrote:
SBL wrote:I got completely shut out in Seattle.
Ties to Seattle?

Did you end up with a job elsewhere? Just curious since that helps indicate how harsh Seattle really is.

I'm curious where you ended up too, SBL. Give us a range of cities and firms if you don't want to out yourself.

Ended up accepting an offer from a mid-sized firm in the SF area.

Ties to Seattle were weak, so I wasn't expecting much, but I didn't even get a single callback.

pasteurizedmilk
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Re: hardest market to land a legal job?

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:48 pm

SBL wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
pasteurizedmilk wrote:
SBL wrote:I got completely shut out in Seattle.
Ties to Seattle?

Did you end up with a job elsewhere? Just curious since that helps indicate how harsh Seattle really is.

I'm curious where you ended up too, SBL. Give us a range of cities and firms if you don't want to out yourself.

Ended up accepting an offer from a mid-sized firm in the SF area.
Congrats man.

motiontodismiss
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Re: hardest market to land a legal job?

Postby motiontodismiss » Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:42 am

rayiner wrote:
pasteurizedmilk wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
pasteurizedmilk wrote:Depends on your particular circumstance. If you're trying to break into a smaller market w/o substantial ties, it's going to be a lot harder than NY (and probably harder even if you do have strong ties).

In the aggregate though, I'd say DC. A TON of people want to work there and there really aren't that many positions. I know people w/ V20 offers in NY who struck out entirely in DC......it's not uncommon at all, TBH.[



Building off that, I know people with DC jobs who struck out in Chicago.

I can see how Chicago would be a tough nut to crack as well. A HUGE city with a relatively small legal market is a horrible combination for hopeful SAs. Plus there's two local T14s and a few other good local schools.


Chicago used to have a pretty big SA crop (about 800+ a few years ago, plenty for the ~250 local T14 students and assorted T1/T2 students).


More like 450. ~250 NU+~190 UChicago. 850 if you count Michigan. And not everyone at either school wants to stay.




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