Do firms care about a drop in gpa during 2L?

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Anonymous User
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Do firms care about a drop in gpa during 2L?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:39 am

Say you're on law review and you go from getting A's to getting C's (as a result of spending too much time working on law review)
Will firms care?

bigben
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Re: Do firms care about a drop in gpa during 2L?

Postby bigben » Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:57 am

92% chance of them not caring.

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jchoggan
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Re: Do firms care about a drop in gpa during 2L?

Postby jchoggan » Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:08 pm

bigben wrote:92% chance of them not caring.

Banking on this...

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Dr. Van Nostrand
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Re: Do firms care about a drop in gpa during 2L?

Postby Dr. Van Nostrand » Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:56 pm

jchoggan wrote:
bigben wrote:92% chance of them not caring.

Banking on this...


Not so sure I agree. I have read on multiple firm sites that grades are taken into consideration for the final offer.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Do firms care about a drop in gpa during 2L?

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:07 pm

I never understand why people ask this? Are you planning on getting lower grades?

Honors stick with you forever. Don't kill yourself for good grades your 2L/3L year the same way you did for 1L, but there's really no reason to slack off. Plus, grades matter for clerkships and early lateral-ing.

In response to the OP: At some firms it does matter, at most firms, it's not a major consideration, but you might get stuck with the reviewing attorney who actually cares.

If I was a hiring partner, my thought process would be "Ok, well, he was good 1L year. He either stopped caring or couldn't hack 2L. Why would I give him an offer - sure, he did great work for 10 weeks, but would he do great work for years?"

Also, many firms make permanent offers contingent: "you must maintain an academic record that is comparable to the transcript you have provided us" is part of my offer letter, and they mean it.

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Dr. Van Nostrand
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Re: Do firms care about a drop in gpa during 2L?

Postby Dr. Van Nostrand » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:42 pm

G. T. L. Rev. wrote:Nostrand: probably best not to try to answer questions you have no firsthand knowledge of.

As for OP's question, it has been asked and answered dozens of times here. A little use of the search function or google goes a long way:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=128598

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=89337

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=35978

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=131760

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=130623

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=117798

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=129505


I'm really not all that sure that any of us have any "firsthand knowledge" of this question, including the links you posted. I can assure you I was told in more than one of my offers that grades are taken into consideration, so what other information am I supposed to go on than what the firm specifically tells me? I don't think a single one of us has been in a hiring committee meeting and knows affirmatively what goes on. So, @ OP, if I somehow suggested I was sure that the aforementioned comments were wrong, I redact that statement. I am sure, however, what I have been told by more than one firm. Take it for what it is worth.

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Kohinoor
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Re: Do firms care about a drop in gpa during 2L?

Postby Kohinoor » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:53 pm

It depends, but no, but you're probably a type A incapable of not gunning so why even ask, but really no.

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Dr. Van Nostrand
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Re: Do firms care about a drop in gpa during 2L?

Postby Dr. Van Nostrand » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:53 pm

G. T. L. Rev. wrote:
Dr. Van Nostrand wrote:I'm really not all that sure that any of us have any "firsthand knowledge" of this question.

Of course some of us do. If a firm does not ask for 2L grades, then by default it does not consider 2L grades when it makes hiring decisions. Since some of us have already been SAs at firms that follow this practice, we have "firsthand knowledge." Alternatively, other posters have been SAs at firms that did ask for grades and may have explicitly commented that these grades were considered as offers were given out.


Point taken. I guess my overlying point is why take the risk on slacking off? You don't really know pre-summer what the firm will want, why even take that chance considering how much of a toss up this question seems to be to law students?
Last edited by Dr. Van Nostrand on Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Do firms care about a drop in gpa during 2L?

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:56 pm

FWIW, even firms who don't look at 2L transcripts could make their final offer contingent on maintaining a suitable academic record.

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Kohinoor
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Re: Do firms care about a drop in gpa during 2L?

Postby Kohinoor » Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:13 pm

G. T. L. Rev. wrote:If a firm chose not to look at your grades during the latter evaluation, then there isn't really a logical next point for them to do so.

Except, y'know, when your final transcript is available.

NYAssociate
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Re: Do firms care about a drop in gpa during 2L?

Postby NYAssociate » Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:25 pm

Summer Associate Work Product>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2L grades

That said, 2L grades will matter if:
1) Your firm is notorious for dinging people based on them.
2) Your firm is looking to no-offer and everyone did well as far as work product is concerned.

I never understand why people ask this? Are you planning on getting lower grades?


Your "holier than thou" attitude is appreciated, but misguided. People's grades fall for all sorts of reasons. Additionally for people at the top of the class, the chances are simply higher than their grades will fall. Being on a demanding journal like LR has its consequences.

Also, many firms make permanent offers contingent: "you must maintain an academic record that is comparable to the transcript you have provided us" is part of my offer letter, and they mean it.


I know what you're referring to (the specific firm), and the answer is: relax. No, that doesn't mean you can get B- bombs all over your transcript, but you shouldn't shit your pants if you lose your coveted (and frequently mentioned) #1 spot at UChicago.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Do firms care about a drop in gpa during 2L?

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:03 pm

The point isn't that people's grades don't fall - they do, for any number of reasons. The point is that this is an irrelevant question. It's not like you can really structure your life in a way that allows your grades to "only" slip a particular, safe amount. Most people aren't going to intentionally let them slip at all.

The only correct response is "do your best to not let them slip, and let the cards fall where they may" - slacking off because you think getting lower grades may not impact your job prospects is silly.

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ZXCVBNM
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Re: Do firms care about a drop in gpa during 2L?

Postby ZXCVBNM » Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:48 pm

career services at nyu said not to worry about this and they've never heard of students getting no offered because of grades. that might be b/c most students that get hired don't drop significantly or because firms don't care that much. either way it might happend here and there but just do ok and you'll probably be fine. i would say 3.0+ and you're definitely golden.

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im_blue
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Re: Do firms care about a drop in gpa during 2L?

Postby im_blue » Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:02 pm

Wouldn't it be easier to maintain or even raise your GPA during 2L because everyone else stops caring about grades?




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