Quitting a Journal

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let/them/eat/cake
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Re: Quitting a Journal

Postby let/them/eat/cake » Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:58 am

Anonymous User wrote:
MrKappus wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:Contrary to popular belief, signing a contract is not the only way to obligate yourself to something.


It's the only way to obligate yourself to something for which withdrawal has such severe penalties. And yes, to the 1L, at my school we sign a "2-year commitment."


what if you initially never signed the K and no one noticed/said anything/made you sign it and now you're like, well this facking blowwsssss

can they still penalize you?


hmmm i'm interested in the answer to this, as I can assure you, note writing is no fun.

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Bosque
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Re: Quitting a Journal

Postby Bosque » Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:18 am

Anonymous User wrote:
MrKappus wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:Contrary to popular belief, signing a contract is not the only way to obligate yourself to something.


It's the only way to obligate yourself to something for which withdrawal has such severe penalties. And yes, to the 1L, at my school we sign a "2-year commitment."


what if you initially never signed the K and no one noticed/said anything/made you sign it and now you're like, well this facking blowwsssss

can they still penalize you?


You still should have thought of that before you joined the journal. It doesn't matter what they can do to you officially... as I said before, your reputation as a lazy quitter no one should hire is permanent. If you don't want to be employed when you graduate, go for it. If you do want a job, stick with your commitment.

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Kohinoor
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Re: Quitting a Journal

Postby Kohinoor » Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:24 am

Bosque wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
MrKappus wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:Contrary to popular belief, signing a contract is not the only way to obligate yourself to something.


It's the only way to obligate yourself to something for which withdrawal has such severe penalties. And yes, to the 1L, at my school we sign a "2-year commitment."


what if you initially never signed the K and no one noticed/said anything/made you sign it and now you're like, well this facking blowwsssss

can they still penalize you?


You still should have thought of that before you joined the journal. It doesn't matter what they can do to you officially... as I said before, your reputation as a lazy quitter no one should hire is permanent. If you don't want to be employed when you graduate, go for it. If you do want a job, stick with your commitment.

Guys in my high school quit their journals, got reputations as lazy quitter, and ended up going from V10s to turning tricks for crack rock all the time. It was no big deal.

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Re: Quitting a Journal

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:04 pm

Bosque wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
MrKappus wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:Contrary to popular belief, signing a contract is not the only way to obligate yourself to something.


It's the only way to obligate yourself to something for which withdrawal has such severe penalties. And yes, to the 1L, at my school we sign a "2-year commitment."


what if you initially never signed the K and no one noticed/said anything/made you sign it and now you're like, well this facking blowwsssss

can they still penalize you?


You still should have thought of that before you joined the journal. It doesn't matter what they can do to you officially... as I said before, your reputation as a lazy quitter no one should hire is permanent. If you don't want to be employed when you graduate, go for it. If you do want a job, stick with your commitment.


You are why people in law school are completely absurd. Seriously, do you really think that one's law career is defined by a secondary journal?? Really, I mean REALLLLLLLLLYYYYYY???

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Bosque
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Re: Quitting a Journal

Postby Bosque » Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Bosque wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
what if you initially never signed the K and no one noticed/said anything/made you sign it and now you're like, well this facking blowwsssss

can they still penalize you?


You still should have thought of that before you joined the journal. It doesn't matter what they can do to you officially... as I said before, your reputation as a lazy quitter no one should hire is permanent. If you don't want to be employed when you graduate, go for it. If you do want a job, stick with your commitment.


You are why people in law school are completely absurd. Seriously, do you really think that one's law career is defined by a secondary journal?? Really, I mean REALLLLLLLLLYYYYYY???


Defined by being on a Journal? Of course not. After all, I chose not to do one. I just think it says something about you if you sign up to do it and then quit once you have a job, and what it says is not good. If I was interviewing someone for a lateral position and I found out they did this, I wouldn't like it. Might still offer them the job if other factors out weigh it, but it would definitely be a black mark.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Quitting a Journal

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:27 pm

Bosque wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Bosque wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
what if you initially never signed the K and no one noticed/said anything/made you sign it and now you're like, well this facking blowwsssss

can they still penalize you?


You still should have thought of that before you joined the journal. It doesn't matter what they can do to you officially... as I said before, your reputation as a lazy quitter no one should hire is permanent. If you don't want to be employed when you graduate, go for it. If you do want a job, stick with your commitment.


You are why people in law school are completely absurd. Seriously, do you really think that one's law career is defined by a secondary journal?? Really, I mean REALLLLLLLLLYYYYYY???


Defined by being on a Journal? Of course not. After all, I chose not to do one. I just think it says something about you if you sign up to do it and then quit once you have a job, and what it says is not good. If I was interviewing someone for a lateral position and I found out they did this, I wouldn't like it. Might still offer them the job if other factors out weigh it, but it would definitely be a black mark.


+1. It's not about the "secondary journal experience." It's about proving that you're someone who will (or will not) fulfill their obligations. As I mentioned, one of the most common reasons Summer Associates get no-offered is because they take too much stuff on (whether well-intentioned or not - and OP obviously wasn't well-intentioned) and end up having to back out of things. And yes, dropping the journal will earn you a mark on your transcript, which may or may not impact hiring decisions down the road. Goodness knows that if I'm ever in a position where I'm making hiring decisions, it would be a huge balck mark in my mind.

There are thousands of people who would kill for a decent legal job. Why would the employer hire someone who can't do the jobs he signs up to do?

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Re: Quitting a Journal

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:30 pm

Man up. You were amply warned how bad journal work is. If you didn't want to do it, you shouldn't have applied. I didn't apply and things worked out.

I think membership on a journal for many people is like the decision to go to law school:'I don't know if I want to do it or what it involves, but everyone else is doing it, so I might as well."

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Re: Quitting a Journal

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:42 pm

Bosque wrote:
Defined by being on a Journal? Of course not. After all, I chose not to do one. I just think it says something about you if you sign up to do it and then quit once you have a job, and what it says is not good. If I was interviewing someone for a lateral position and I found out they did this, I wouldn't like it. Might still offer them the job if other factors out weigh it, but it would definitely be a black mark.


I'd feel the same way. The timing of it makes it pretty clear why you joined the journal in the first place. Don't know if I'd really want to work with a person like that. That being said, I doubt it'll affect your summer position.

But anecdotally: A buddy of mine did an SA at a Vault firm that typically offers pretty much every SA. He was no-offered and thinks his choosing to quit a journal right after accepting an offer was a contributing factor, since his work-reviews were generally favorable (nothing special, but nothing negative). Doesn't have any conclusive evidence, though. And again, just anecdotally.

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Lonagan
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Re: Quitting a Journal

Postby Lonagan » Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:34 pm


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let/them/eat/cake
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Re: Quitting a Journal

Postby let/them/eat/cake » Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:54 pm

Bosque wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Bosque wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
what if you initially never signed the K and no one noticed/said anything/made you sign it and now you're like, well this facking blowwsssss

can they still penalize you?


You still should have thought of that before you joined the journal. It doesn't matter what they can do to you officially... as I said before, your reputation as a lazy quitter no one should hire is permanent. If you don't want to be employed when you graduate, go for it. If you do want a job, stick with your commitment.


You are why people in law school are completely absurd. Seriously, do you really think that one's law career is defined by a secondary journal?? Really, I mean REALLLLLLLLLYYYYYY???


Defined by being on a Journal? Of course not. After all, I chose not to do one. I just think it says something about you if you sign up to do it and then quit once you have a job, and what it says is not good. If I was interviewing someone for a lateral position and I found out they did this, I wouldn't like it. Might still offer them the job if other factors out weigh it, but it would definitely be a black mark.


just curious: when someone gets interviewed for a lateral position after several years of actual legal experience at a firm, employers will ask for about your secondary journal experience? or is ur point they will ask about your transcript? and if that's your point, are you sure that after 4-5 years of work they are going to ask for a transcript? it's kind of meaningless at that point. also, i think the whole point of the question was that if you didn't sign the contract, and thus agree to the sanctions, that they can't mark up your transcript....

anyway, i think the sentiment expressed by "your reputation as a lazy quitter no one should hire is permanent" is a bit overblown. i, for one, have no problem with journal work, i don't mind it at all. what i DO mind, is being forced to write a note when i had no interest in doing that. it almost makes me want to quit just out of principle--i can't find one reason why everyone on a secondary journal should be forced to write a note. my time in law school should still be, regardless of my membership on a journal, as much MY TIME as possible. a lot of the way a journal is operated is based on silly precedent of what elder editors had to do/put up with, and i hate arbitrary, useless, inefficient practices.

so yeah, my two cents.

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Bosque
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Re: Quitting a Journal

Postby Bosque » Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:05 pm

let/them/eat/cake wrote:just curious: when someone gets interviewed for a lateral position after several years of actual legal experience at a firm, employers will ask for about your secondary journal experience? or is ur point they will ask about your transcript? and if that's your point, are you sure that after 4-5 years of work they are going to ask for a transcript? it's kind of meaningless at that point. also, i think the whole point of the question was that if you didn't sign the contract, and thus agree to the sanctions, that they can't mark up your transcript....

anyway, i think the sentiment expressed by "your reputation as a lazy quitter no one should hire is permanent" is a bit overblown. i, for one, have no problem with journal work, i don't mind it at all. what i DO mind, is being forced to write a note when i had no interest in doing that. it almost makes me want to quit just out of principle--i can't find one reason why everyone on a secondary journal should be forced to write a note. my time in law school should still be, regardless of my membership on a journal, as much MY TIME as possible. a lot of the way a journal is operated is based on silly precedent of what elder editors had to do/put up with, and i hate arbitrary, useless, inefficient practices.

so yeah, my two cents.


First of all, why would they not ask for a law school transcript? This would only be your second legal job, so I would assume they would still want to see it. Besides, I am pretty sure most employers are going to want everyone's transcript on file. So even if it is not a factor for hiring, they will see it eventually. And if you are still including a line on your resume saying you were on the Journal (and you shouldn't if you quit), they will for sure ask about it. From what I have been told, lateral hire interviews are a LOT more in depth than hiring interviews right out of law school. So they are probably going to get into it.

As for your concern about writing a note, the answer to that is to not be on a journal. That is a big part of the reason I didn't do it. You knew or should have known it was a requirement before you signed up, so I have no sympathy for you.

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20160810
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Re: Quitting a Journal

Postby 20160810 » Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:07 pm

I'm pretty surprised that some schools put your journals on your tscript.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Quitting a Journal

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:10 pm

Why is it that you folks seem to think that the journal can't make an indication on your transcript unless you signed something?

Your journal membership goes on your transcript (edit: apparently not at every school). They can just as easily make an indication that you dropped it. I'm sure it's covered by one of the numerous law school or broader university rules. Don't be absurd.

Similarly, I don't need to have something signed by you to give me authority to call your employer and say pretty much anything I want. I suppose in a few states truth isn't a defense against a libel claim (if you REALLY wanted to get down) if there was nothing but malicious intent, but I can pretty easily point to a desire to deter future people from dropping the journal. And you don't need to sign anything to allow a school to report basically anything they want to report to C&F.

Regarding lateral interviews down the road - a great many of them look at your transcript, at least from my knowledge. Are they going to give a damn about the journal membership at that point? Probably not - but the indication on the transcript that you're a jackass quitter is still there.

Re: Writing the note - then don't join the journal. Period. I happen to agree with you - I think all "academic" writing requirements in law school should be done away with. That said, you knew (or should have known) what you were getting in to when you took the resume line for purposes of the job hunt.

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20160810
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Re: Quitting a Journal

Postby 20160810 » Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:15 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:Why is it that you folks seem to think that the journal can't make an indication on your transcript unless you signed something?

Your journal membership goes on your transcript (edit: apparently not at every school). They can just as easily make an indication that you dropped it. I'm sure it's covered by one of the numerous law school or broader university rules. Don't be absurd.

Similarly, I don't need to have something signed by you to give me authority to call your employer and say pretty much anything I want. I suppose in a few states truth isn't a defense against a libel claim (if you REALLY wanted to get down) if there was nothing but malicious intent, but I can pretty easily point to a desire to deter future people from dropping the journal. And you don't need to sign anything to allow a school to report basically anything they want to report to C&F.

Regarding lateral interviews down the road - a great many of them look at your transcript, at least from my knowledge. Are they going to give a damn about the journal membership at that point? Probably not - but the indication on the transcript that you're a jackass quitter is still there.

Re: Writing the note - then don't join the journal. Period. I happen to agree with you - I think all "academic" writing requirements in law school should be done away with. That said, you knew (or should have known) what you were getting in to when you took the resume line for purposes of the job hunt.

FWIW I think journals are run REALLY differently from school to school. I'm on a secondary at my LS, and all I do is cite checking. There was no write-on, no note requirement, certainly nothing on my transcript, nada. I just showed up at a meeting, ate a free burrito, said "Sure" when they handed me a cite-checking packet, and that was that.

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Bosque
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Re: Quitting a Journal

Postby Bosque » Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:23 pm

SBL wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:Why is it that you folks seem to think that the journal can't make an indication on your transcript unless you signed something?

Your journal membership goes on your transcript (edit: apparently not at every school). They can just as easily make an indication that you dropped it. I'm sure it's covered by one of the numerous law school or broader university rules. Don't be absurd.

Similarly, I don't need to have something signed by you to give me authority to call your employer and say pretty much anything I want. I suppose in a few states truth isn't a defense against a libel claim (if you REALLY wanted to get down) if there was nothing but malicious intent, but I can pretty easily point to a desire to deter future people from dropping the journal. And you don't need to sign anything to allow a school to report basically anything they want to report to C&F.

Regarding lateral interviews down the road - a great many of them look at your transcript, at least from my knowledge. Are they going to give a damn about the journal membership at that point? Probably not - but the indication on the transcript that you're a jackass quitter is still there.

Re: Writing the note - then don't join the journal. Period. I happen to agree with you - I think all "academic" writing requirements in law school should be done away with. That said, you knew (or should have known) what you were getting in to when you took the resume line for purposes of the job hunt.

FWIW I think journals are run REALLY differently from school to school. I'm on a secondary at my LS, and all I do is cite checking. There was no write-on, no note requirement, certainly nothing on my transcript, nada. I just showed up at a meeting, ate a free burrito, said "Sure" when they handed me a cite-checking packet, and that was that.


Yah, that is a lot different than here.

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let/them/eat/cake
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Re: Quitting a Journal

Postby let/them/eat/cake » Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:27 pm

SBL wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:Why is it that you folks seem to think that the journal can't make an indication on your transcript unless you signed something?

Your journal membership goes on your transcript (edit: apparently not at every school). They can just as easily make an indication that you dropped it. I'm sure it's covered by one of the numerous law school or broader university rules. Don't be absurd.

Similarly, I don't need to have something signed by you to give me authority to call your employer and say pretty much anything I want. I suppose in a few states truth isn't a defense against a libel claim (if you REALLY wanted to get down) if there was nothing but malicious intent, but I can pretty easily point to a desire to deter future people from dropping the journal. And you don't need to sign anything to allow a school to report basically anything they want to report to C&F.

Regarding lateral interviews down the road - a great many of them look at your transcript, at least from my knowledge. Are they going to give a damn about the journal membership at that point? Probably not - but the indication on the transcript that you're a jackass quitter is still there.

Re: Writing the note - then don't join the journal. Period. I happen to agree with you - I think all "academic" writing requirements in law school should be done away with. That said, you knew (or should have known) what you were getting in to when you took the resume line for purposes of the job hunt.


FWIW I think journals are run REALLY differently from school to school. I'm on a secondary at my LS, and all I do is cite checking. There was no write-on, no note requirement, certainly nothing on my transcript, nada. I just showed up at a meeting, ate a free burrito, said "Sure" when they handed me a cite-checking packet, and that was that.


that sounds lovely. anyway, i would never include it on a resume if i had left the journal. and i agree with you about just sticking it out bc it's what i signed up for. the note requirement is still a stupid requirement. and if i ever did quit trust me i wouldn't be waiting for the administration or EIC of the journal to call up my job and tattle on me, i'd be calling them myself.

BobSacamano
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Re: Quitting a Journal

Postby BobSacamano » Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:22 pm

SBL wrote:I'm pretty surprised that some schools put your journals on your tscript.

It counts for credit (at least where I am), so it makes sense.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Quitting a Journal

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:51 pm

BobSacamano wrote:
SBL wrote:I'm pretty surprised that some schools put your journals on your tscript.

It counts for credit (at least where I am), so it makes sense.


We don't get credit, but it still goes on the transcript. Then again, we also pick our staffers through the write-on competition (the two secondaries and the Law Review do a joint write-on competition, unlike some schools where each secondary has its own). People indicate whether they are interested in the secondaries or not. Typically, 20-30 people who do the write-on opt out of consideration for the secondary journals.

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vamedic03
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Re: Quitting a Journal

Postby vamedic03 » Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:27 pm

I don't really want to get involved in this argument here - however, a small 2 cents. I think that part of why dropping a journal is concerning for a law firm is this: If you can't handle a journal + law school, how are you going to be able to handle billing 2000+ hours/year?

EDIT - I don't mean to suggest that this is OP's situation, rather, I'm just posing this as a different way of looking at the generic problem.

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worldtraveler
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Re: Quitting a Journal

Postby worldtraveler » Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:49 pm

SBL wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:Why is it that you folks seem to think that the journal can't make an indication on your transcript unless you signed something?

Your journal membership goes on your transcript (edit: apparently not at every school). They can just as easily make an indication that you dropped it. I'm sure it's covered by one of the numerous law school or broader university rules. Don't be absurd.

Similarly, I don't need to have something signed by you to give me authority to call your employer and say pretty much anything I want. I suppose in a few states truth isn't a defense against a libel claim (if you REALLY wanted to get down) if there was nothing but malicious intent, but I can pretty easily point to a desire to deter future people from dropping the journal. And you don't need to sign anything to allow a school to report basically anything they want to report to C&F.

Regarding lateral interviews down the road - a great many of them look at your transcript, at least from my knowledge. Are they going to give a damn about the journal membership at that point? Probably not - but the indication on the transcript that you're a jackass quitter is still there.

Re: Writing the note - then don't join the journal. Period. I happen to agree with you - I think all "academic" writing requirements in law school should be done away with. That said, you knew (or should have known) what you were getting in to when you took the resume line for purposes of the job hunt.

FWIW I think journals are run REALLY differently from school to school. I'm on a secondary at my LS, and all I do is cite checking. There was no write-on, no note requirement, certainly nothing on my transcript, nada. I just showed up at a meeting, ate a free burrito, said "Sure" when they handed me a cite-checking packet, and that was that.


That's about what ours are. Laid back CA schools FTW.

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Kohinoor
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Re: Quitting a Journal

Postby Kohinoor » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:01 pm

worldtraveler wrote:
SBL wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:Why is it that you folks seem to think that the journal can't make an indication on your transcript unless you signed something?

Your journal membership goes on your transcript (edit: apparently not at every school). They can just as easily make an indication that you dropped it. I'm sure it's covered by one of the numerous law school or broader university rules. Don't be absurd.

Similarly, I don't need to have something signed by you to give me authority to call your employer and say pretty much anything I want. I suppose in a few states truth isn't a defense against a libel claim (if you REALLY wanted to get down) if there was nothing but malicious intent, but I can pretty easily point to a desire to deter future people from dropping the journal. And you don't need to sign anything to allow a school to report basically anything they want to report to C&F.

Regarding lateral interviews down the road - a great many of them look at your transcript, at least from my knowledge. Are they going to give a damn about the journal membership at that point? Probably not - but the indication on the transcript that you're a jackass quitter is still there.

Re: Writing the note - then don't join the journal. Period. I happen to agree with you - I think all "academic" writing requirements in law school should be done away with. That said, you knew (or should have known) what you were getting in to when you took the resume line for purposes of the job hunt.

FWIW I think journals are run REALLY differently from school to school. I'm on a secondary at my LS, and all I do is cite checking. There was no write-on, no note requirement, certainly nothing on my transcript, nada. I just showed up at a meeting, ate a free burrito, said "Sure" when they handed me a cite-checking packet, and that was that.


That's about what ours are. Laid back CA schools FTW.

I haven't even gotten the cite-checking packet yet.

Anonymous User
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Re: Quitting a Journal

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:03 pm

one of my 3L friends is an editor of my journal, and she told me to just half-ass everything, and eventually, shit will get taken care of by someone. what are they going to do... not publish my note? OH NOES!

sperry
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Re: Quitting a Journal

Postby sperry » Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:54 pm

Of the handful of people I've talked to who are on secondary journals, every single one of them has said they hate it. They are stuck with tons of boring, tedious work that takes away free/ study time. Course they all have jobs and I don't, so. . .

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: Quitting a Journal

Postby Lawl Shcool » Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:21 am

FWIW I have really enjoyed my secondary journal so far. Low stress and a great way to meet more people at school.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Quitting a Journal

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:57 am

JPU wrote:FWIW I have really enjoyed my secondary journal so far. Low stress and a great way to meet more people at school.


Are you an alien?




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