insurance defense

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reasonable_man
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Re: insurance defense

Postby reasonable_man » Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:think there is some confusion here. Original OP here, and I am going to a firm. Reasonable Man, do you know much about med mal defense? Because this is the one part of ID law I am most naturally drawn to, even if it gets a bad rap. Thanks again.



The bad rap isn't exactly fair. Med-mal defense is considered fairly specialized and usually the firms that handle it are good staffed by good attorneys, most of which in major markets are earning over 100k per year. Its given a bad rap because big law firms will not handle these cases because the billing rate is typically only about 200ish for partners; well below the rate biglaw typically overcharges err I mean charges its clients. By contrast, products liability cases will often be handled by biglaw firms and thus, that work is "solid" and "technical" and, of course, prestigious. But in reality, the medical issues in a med-mal case can be complex and the trials are intense. I don't look down on med-mal defense at all; though I typically do not handle such cases.

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Re: insurance defense

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:50 pm

reasonable_man wrote:
Are you going to an inhouse office or an actual firm?


The salary numbers I quoted (~$125K after bonus + stock options in a "secondary market") are inhouse office doing defense litigation at a large personal auto/home carrier with about 5 to 7 years experience. For some reason I would have expected higher end ID work to be paying better than the inhouse positions.

Edit: I realize the confusion. I claimed to be the poster immediately preceding your post but I was actually two back. My fault. Reset:

I understand you to be saying that high end ID work in NYC is paying between $80-140K for 3 to 8 years expierence.

I'm surprised by that b/c I know of at least one personal auto/home carrier paying inhouse positions doing "low end" ID in a place like San Antonio/Tampa/Oklahoma City ~$125K + Stock Options.

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Re: insurance defense

Postby reasonable_man » Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
reasonable_man wrote:
Are you going to an inhouse office or an actual firm?


The salary numbers I quoted (~$125K after bonus + stock options in a "secondary market") are inhouse office doing defense litigation at a large personal auto/home carrier with about 5 to 7 years experience. For some reason I would have expected higher end ID work to be paying better than the inhouse positions.

Edit: I realize the confusion. I claimed to be the poster immediately preceding your post but I was actually two back. My fault. Reset:

I understand you to be saying that high end ID work in NYC is paying between $80-140K for 3 to 8 years expierence.

I'm surprised by that b/c I know of at least one personal auto/home carrier paying inhouse positions doing "low end" ID in a place like San Antonio/Tampa/Oklahoma City ~$125K + Stock Options.



I was also quoting suburban rates... its actually a little higher in NYC... Figure probably closser to 80/150 for 3 to 7 years in NYC for the highest end work. ~125 plus stock isnt bad considering those positions (In-house ID), are about as close to "40 hour work weeks" as possible. Not to mention, most of the hard work is farmed out. So if you just want to cruise, its not a bad gig. Though, to be honest, the in house ID model is sorta dying out in many areas. A lot of carriers are closing their in house departments in favor of sending out all of the ID work.

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Re: insurance defense

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:16 pm

reasonable_man wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:think there is some confusion here. Original OP here, and I am going to a firm. Reasonable Man, do you know much about med mal defense? Because this is the one part of ID law I am most naturally drawn to, even if it gets a bad rap. Thanks again.



The bad rap isn't exactly fair. Med-mal defense is considered fairly specialized and usually the firms that handle it are good staffed by good attorneys, most of which in major markets are earning over 100k per year. Its given a bad rap because big law firms will not handle these cases because the billing rate is typically only about 200ish for partners; well below the rate biglaw typically overcharges err I mean charges its clients. By contrast, products liability cases will often be handled by biglaw firms and thus, that work is "solid" and "technical" and, of course, prestigious. But in reality, the medical issues in a med-mal case can be complex and the trials are intense. I don't look down on med-mal defense at all; though I typically do not handle such cases.


thanks reasonable man, the bolded gets at why I am interested in medmal defense. Hopefully I won't be too disappointed.

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AssociateX
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Re: insurance defense

Postby AssociateX » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:27 am

Good info on this thread, I do low end auto insurance defense but previously worked at firms that handled toxic torts, med mal and legal malpractice work. I've done a lot of legal malpractice work and agree that there is a big distinction between the salaries re: low end vs high end.

Right now I do mostly auto/no-fault defense for a large insurance company (technically, my title is "staff counsel" even though all the 40+ attorneys in my office report to 1 partner that runs the NYC and Westchester/Long Island offices). My caseload right now is between 300 and 400 files, which I actively manage using an electronic database put in place for all attorneys at our company.

Salaries starting out are pretty pathetically low (anywhere from $30-45K). Attorneys at my firm (at the associate level) probably top out at 85K or so, with supervising 'partners' coming in at 90-100K, and then head managerse at $100-120K. The upside is that my hours are very reasonable (1900 billables/year, very rare to work weekends and usually out the door by 6-6:30 pm). The downside of course is the tedious nature of the work (its very repetitive and boring), and of course the slow salary progression. However, I enjoy going to court and I am conducting an average of 2-5 trials per month because I am in court at least 2 or 3 times per week. So..for me, it works out well because my loan debt is minimal ($45K left on UG/LS). But compared to BigLaw salaries, its very sad.

Any other q's, feel free to ask.. :)

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Re: insurance defense

Postby XxSpyKEx » Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:34 pm

AssociateX wrote:Good info on this thread, I do low end auto insurance defense but previously worked at firms that handled toxic torts, med mal and legal malpractice work. I've done a lot of legal malpractice work and agree that there is a big distinction between the salaries re: low end vs high end.

Right now I do mostly auto/no-fault defense for a large insurance company (technically, my title is "staff counsel" even though all the 40+ attorneys in my office report to 1 partner that runs the NYC and Westchester/Long Island offices). My caseload right now is between 300 and 400 files, which I actively manage using an electronic database put in place for all attorneys at our company.

Salaries starting out are pretty pathetically low (anywhere from $30-45K). Attorneys at my firm (at the associate level) probably top out at 85K or so, with supervising 'partners' coming in at 90-100K, and then head managerse at $100-120K. The upside is that my hours are very reasonable (1900 billables/year, very rare to work weekends and usually out the door by 6-6:30 pm). The downside of course is the tedious nature of the work (its very repetitive and boring), and of course the slow salary progression. However, I enjoy going to court and I am conducting an average of 2-5 trials per month because I am in court at least 2 or 3 times per week. So..for me, it works out well because my loan debt is minimal ($45K left on UG/LS). But compared to BigLaw salaries, its very sad.

Any other q's, feel free to ask.. :)


I sure hope that you start work at 11AM given your salary (i.e. to make the hours "reasonable" for that salary).

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Re: insurance defense

Postby AssociateX » Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:17 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:
AssociateX wrote:.....

I sure hope that you start work at 11AM given your salary (i.e. to make the hours "reasonable" for that salary).


Actually on non-court days, I roll into the office anywhere between 9:30 am-10 am, spend another 20 min reading e-mails and another 20 min chatting with office mates,,,no one here keeps track of it as long as you meet the required billing for the week, so technically I can "start" work at 11 am...(although officially our office hours are 9 am - 5:30 pm). On court days, some calendars in the NYC state/civil courts aren't called until at least 10 or 10:30 am, with many trials not scheduled to commence until 11 am or whenever the judge feels like coming down to hear trials.

But I can understand how some people feel that a 'reasonable' salary is anywhere over 6 figures, whatever floats your boat. :roll: :roll:

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Re: insurance defense

Postby reasonable_man » Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:33 pm

AssociateX wrote:Good info on this thread, I do low end auto insurance defense but previously worked at firms that handled toxic torts, med mal and legal malpractice work. I've done a lot of legal malpractice work and agree that there is a big distinction between the salaries re: low end vs high end.

Right now I do mostly auto/no-fault defense for a large insurance company (technically, my title is "staff counsel" even though all the 40+ attorneys in my office report to 1 partner that runs the NYC and Westchester/Long Island offices). My caseload right now is between 300 and 400 files, which I actively manage using an electronic database put in place for all attorneys at our company.

Salaries starting out are pretty pathetically low (anywhere from $30-45K). Attorneys at my firm (at the associate level) probably top out at 85K or so, with supervising 'partners' coming in at 90-100K, and then head managerse at $100-120K. The upside is that my hours are very reasonable (1900 billables/year, very rare to work weekends and usually out the door by 6-6:30 pm). The downside of course is the tedious nature of the work (its very repetitive and boring), and of course the slow salary progression. However, I enjoy going to court and I am conducting an average of 2-5 trials per month because I am in court at least 2 or 3 times per week. So..for me, it works out well because my loan debt is minimal ($45K left on UG/LS). But compared to BigLaw salaries, its very sad.

Any other q's, feel free to ask.. :)



Very good information here. Thank you.

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Re: insurance defense

Postby XxSpyKEx » Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:55 pm

AssociateX wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:
AssociateX wrote:.....

I sure hope that you start work at 11AM given your salary (i.e. to make the hours "reasonable" for that salary).


Actually on non-court days, I roll into the office anywhere between 9:30 am-10 am, spend another 20 min reading e-mails and another 20 min chatting with office mates,,,no one here keeps track of it as long as you meet the required billing for the week, so technically I can "start" work at 11 am...(although officially our office hours are 9 am - 5:30 pm). On court days, some calendars in the NYC state/civil courts aren't called until at least 10 or 10:30 am, with many trials not scheduled to commence until 11 am or whenever the judge feels like coming down to hear trials.

But I can understand how some people feel that a 'reasonable' salary is anywhere over 6 figures, whatever floats your boat. :roll: :roll:


Rather obvious straw man.

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Re: insurance defense

Postby reasonable_man » Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:04 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:
AssociateX wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:
AssociateX wrote:.....

I sure hope that you start work at 11AM given your salary (i.e. to make the hours "reasonable" for that salary).


Actually on non-court days, I roll into the office anywhere between 9:30 am-10 am, spend another 20 min reading e-mails and another 20 min chatting with office mates,,,no one here keeps track of it as long as you meet the required billing for the week, so technically I can "start" work at 11 am...(although officially our office hours are 9 am - 5:30 pm). On court days, some calendars in the NYC state/civil courts aren't called until at least 10 or 10:30 am, with many trials not scheduled to commence until 11 am or whenever the judge feels like coming down to hear trials.

But I can understand how some people feel that a 'reasonable' salary is anywhere over 6 figures, whatever floats your boat. :roll: :roll:


Rather obvious straw man.



Not sure if you are getting at that associate X is my alt; but if that is what you're getting at, I can assure you that he/she its not. I rather like my reasonable_man persona.

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Re: insurance defense

Postby XxSpyKEx » Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:17 pm

reasonable_man wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:
AssociateX wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:
I sure hope that you start work at 11AM given your salary (i.e. to make the hours "reasonable" for that salary).


Actually on non-court days, I roll into the office anywhere between 9:30 am-10 am, spend another 20 min reading e-mails and another 20 min chatting with office mates,,,no one here keeps track of it as long as you meet the required billing for the week, so technically I can "start" work at 11 am...(although officially our office hours are 9 am - 5:30 pm). On court days, some calendars in the NYC state/civil courts aren't called until at least 10 or 10:30 am, with many trials not scheduled to commence until 11 am or whenever the judge feels like coming down to hear trials.

But I can understand how some people feel that a 'reasonable' salary is anywhere over 6 figures, whatever floats your boat. :roll: :roll:


Rather obvious straw man.



Not sure if you are getting at that associate X is my alt; but if that is what you're getting at, I can assure you that he/she its not. I rather like my reasonable_man persona.


Nope, not what I was getting at.

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Re: insurance defense

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:29 pm

I'm the poster from the last page who's dad is in ID. AssociateX's info is spot on (including the hours and the salary).

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Re: insurance defense

Postby romothesavior » Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:33 pm

AssociateX wrote:Salaries starting out are pretty pathetically low (anywhere from $30-45K). Attorneys at my firm (at the associate level) probably top out at 85K or so, with supervising 'partners' coming in at 90-100K, and then head managers at $100-120K.


Thanks for the info. I am actually interested in ID work.

How long does it take to the upper pay scales? What are yearly salary increases like? If you start at 35-45k, how long until you're making in the 80k range?

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Re: insurance defense

Postby AssociateX » Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:44 pm

[quote="romothesavior"][quote="AssociateX"]

How long does it take to the upper pay scales? What are yearly salary increases like? If you start at 35-45k, how long until you're making in the 80k range?[/quote]



How long does it take to the upper pay scales? What are yearly salary increases like? If you start at 35-45k, how long until you're making in the 80k range?[/quote]

That entirely depends on what firm you start at the contacts you make in your career, combined with a little bit of luck and hustling. I interviewed twice for Wilson Elser (WEMED) in NYC which is considered one, if not, the largest insurance defense sweatshop law firm. They quoted me a starting salary of $72-78K for the NYC office and I think I only had 1-2 years of experience at the time for me to qualify. This is the higest entry level salary I heard about in the area of ins defense. I eventually went to another law firm that paid me $70K (as a 2nd/3rd year) but that place folded up shop only 5 months after I started, which is how I ended up doing other areas of law (incl landlord/tenant, some plaintiff PI and eventually legal malpractice work). Former co-workers that started at 42K as entry level were promoted to 48K as 2nd years, then 55K as 3rd years and eventually negotiated themselves to almost 90K as 5th or 6th year associates. It all depends....


Unlike BigLaw, there are no "set" salary step ladders..You must either negotiate salary when you are hired, when they offer reviews, or when you lateral to other firms.

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Re: insurance defense

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:54 pm

many helpful posts here. thanks again.

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Re: insurance defense

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:23 pm

I worked at a large-ish ID firm in Florida before law school. The firm did your basic premise liability/auto bs and wrongful death/medmal. The partners of the firm were all UF or T25 grads (maybe one FSU). All of the staff attorneys were TTT grads. 90+% of the associates were TTT grads from FGC/St. Thomas/FAMU. I don't think any Barry grads made it in. The way a partner explained to me when I was working there (file clerk, trial prep, bitch work) was that there was a "two track" system inside of the firm itself. You had zero shot of making partner from the TTT and maxed out as Of Counsel. They handled the 10k slip and fall or the small auto accident because they could be billed cheaply (like $75-90) and keep less lucrative business (but still lucrative) inside the firm. The partners and other associates would work on the higher claims for obvious reasons: more billing opportunity, kind of prestigious, and generally a little more exciting and complicated. I didn't ask for specific salary ranges, but I would estimate 35-50k depending on school. Everyone started from the bottom, a few people had the odds to get to a salary that TLS would consider "respectable." The odds of making partner if you made the cutoff were pretty high; everyone that went to UF or higher was a 1-4 year associate or partner. They didn't hire nearly as many people from higher ranked schools compared to TTT. I worked there for a summer and they hired 3-6 TTT and 1 non-TTT.

I don't know how many other firms do that, but I think it makes sense. There were 1-3 senior partners per office and they all did very well for themselves, if you consider CoL for the city it was probably the equivalent of cracking 7 figures in NY.

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Re: insurance defense

Postby Aqualibrium » Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:59 pm

To be fair, I don't think anyone was saying that a 100K salary, or any salary not approaching six figures isn't respectable. You just have to look at how far that money can stretch in a given market.

100k in New York is really not that great. 100k in New Orleans is fantastic. It's all relative.

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Re: insurance defense

Postby reasonable_man » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:44 am

Anonymous User wrote:I worked at a large-ish ID firm in Florida before law school. The firm did your basic premise liability/auto bs and wrongful death/medmal. The partners of the firm were all UF or T25 grads (maybe one FSU). All of the staff attorneys were TTT grads. 90+% of the associates were TTT grads from FGC/St. Thomas/FAMU. I don't think any Barry grads made it in. The way a partner explained to me when I was working there (file clerk, trial prep, bitch work) was that there was a "two track" system inside of the firm itself. You had zero shot of making partner from the TTT and maxed out as Of Counsel. They handled the 10k slip and fall or the small auto accident because they could be billed cheaply (like $75-90) and keep less lucrative business (but still lucrative) inside the firm. The partners and other associates would work on the higher claims for obvious reasons: more billing opportunity, kind of prestigious, and generally a little more exciting and complicated. I didn't ask for specific salary ranges, but I would estimate 35-50k depending on school. Everyone started from the bottom, a few people had the odds to get to a salary that TLS would consider "respectable." The odds of making partner if you made the cutoff were pretty high; everyone that went to UF or higher was a 1-4 year associate or partner. They didn't hire nearly as many people from higher ranked schools compared to TTT. I worked there for a summer and they hired 3-6 TTT and 1 non-TTT.

I don't know how many other firms do that, but I think it makes sense. There were 1-3 senior partners per office and they all did very well for themselves, if you consider CoL for the city it was probably the equivalent of cracking 7 figures in NY.



This may be true in this one particular firm. However, in most places, especially an ID firm, once you're in the door, the quality of your JD means nothing compared to your ability to bring in business, as it relates to the partnership track.

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Re: insurance defense

Postby XxSpyKEx » Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I worked at a large-ish ID firm in Florida before law school. The firm did your basic premise liability/auto bs and wrongful death/medmal. The partners of the firm were all UF or T25 grads (maybe one FSU). All of the staff attorneys were TTT grads. 90+% of the associates were TTT grads from FGC/St. Thomas/FAMU. I don't think any Barry grads made it in. The way a partner explained to me when I was working there (file clerk, trial prep, bitch work) was that there was a "two track" system inside of the firm itself. You had zero shot of making partner from the TTT and maxed out as Of Counsel. They handled the 10k slip and fall or the small auto accident because they could be billed cheaply (like $75-90) and keep less lucrative business (but still lucrative) inside the firm. The partners and other associates would work on the higher claims for obvious reasons: more billing opportunity, kind of prestigious, and generally a little more exciting and complicated. I didn't ask for specific salary ranges, but I would estimate 35-50k depending on school. Everyone started from the bottom, a few people had the odds to get to a salary that TLS would consider "respectable." The odds of making partner if you made the cutoff were pretty high; everyone that went to UF or higher was a 1-4 year associate or partner. They didn't hire nearly as many people from higher ranked schools compared to TTT. I worked there for a summer and they hired 3-6 TTT and 1 non-TTT.

I don't know how many other firms do that, but I think it makes sense. There were 1-3 senior partners per office and they all did very well for themselves, if you consider CoL for the city it was probably the equivalent of cracking 7 figures in NY.


This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard... As if an attorney who went to a low ranking school is somehow by default a shitty attorney (even for shitlaw like ID), and an attorney who went to a slightly better shitty law school (like UF or a t25) is somehow by default going to make a better attorney. There's even dumb/incredibly lazy people at Harvard, so that generalization seems a bit crazy to me. The prestige thing around biglaw firms has a lot more to do with the biglaw model generally than with the quality of the attorneys. I.e. biglaw firms sold to their clients by telling them that "XYZ top school grad will be working on their case" so that the client feels reassured that he is getting the best legal services possible, and, more importantly, isn't going to get sued by shareholders if the firm loses because the shareholders will think "well at least they hired the best of the best, and they gave it their all." The same definitely doesn't hold true for insurance companies-- they know they aren't getting the best of the best, their goal is to minimize costs.

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Re: insurance defense

Postby reasonable_man » Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:50 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I worked at a large-ish ID firm in Florida before law school. The firm did your basic premise liability/auto bs and wrongful death/medmal. The partners of the firm were all UF or T25 grads (maybe one FSU). All of the staff attorneys were TTT grads. 90+% of the associates were TTT grads from FGC/St. Thomas/FAMU. I don't think any Barry grads made it in. The way a partner explained to me when I was working there (file clerk, trial prep, bitch work) was that there was a "two track" system inside of the firm itself. You had zero shot of making partner from the TTT and maxed out as Of Counsel. They handled the 10k slip and fall or the small auto accident because they could be billed cheaply (like $75-90) and keep less lucrative business (but still lucrative) inside the firm. The partners and other associates would work on the higher claims for obvious reasons: more billing opportunity, kind of prestigious, and generally a little more exciting and complicated. I didn't ask for specific salary ranges, but I would estimate 35-50k depending on school. Everyone started from the bottom, a few people had the odds to get to a salary that TLS would consider "respectable." The odds of making partner if you made the cutoff were pretty high; everyone that went to UF or higher was a 1-4 year associate or partner. They didn't hire nearly as many people from higher ranked schools compared to TTT. I worked there for a summer and they hired 3-6 TTT and 1 non-TTT.

I don't know how many other firms do that, but I think it makes sense. There were 1-3 senior partners per office and they all did very well for themselves, if you consider CoL for the city it was probably the equivalent of cracking 7 figures in NY.


This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard... As if an attorney who went to a low ranking school is somehow by default a shitty attorney (even for shitlaw like ID), and an attorney who went to a slightly better shitty law school (like UF or a t25) is somehow by default going to make a better attorney. There's even dumb/incredibly lazy people at Harvard, so that generalization seems a bit crazy to me. The prestige thing around biglaw firms has a lot more to do with the biglaw model generally than with the quality of the attorneys. I.e. biglaw firms sold to their clients by telling them that "XYZ top school grad will be working on their case" so that the client feels reassured that he is getting the best legal services possible, and, more importantly, isn't going to get sued by shareholders if the firm loses because the shareholders will think "well at least they hired the best of the best, and they gave it their all." The same definitely doesn't hold true for insurance companies-- they know they aren't getting the best of the best, their goal is to minimize costs.


True Statement.

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Re: insurance defense

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:15 am

XxSpyKEx wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I worked at a large-ish ID firm in Florida before law school. The firm did your basic premise liability/auto bs and wrongful death/medmal. The partners of the firm were all UF or T25 grads (maybe one FSU). All of the staff attorneys were TTT grads. 90+% of the associates were TTT grads from FGC/St. Thomas/FAMU. I don't think any Barry grads made it in. The way a partner explained to me when I was working there (file clerk, trial prep, bitch work) was that there was a "two track" system inside of the firm itself. You had zero shot of making partner from the TTT and maxed out as Of Counsel. They handled the 10k slip and fall or the small auto accident because they could be billed cheaply (like $75-90) and keep less lucrative business (but still lucrative) inside the firm. The partners and other associates would work on the higher claims for obvious reasons: more billing opportunity, kind of prestigious, and generally a little more exciting and complicated. I didn't ask for specific salary ranges, but I would estimate 35-50k depending on school. Everyone started from the bottom, a few people had the odds to get to a salary that TLS would consider "respectable." The odds of making partner if you made the cutoff were pretty high; everyone that went to UF or higher was a 1-4 year associate or partner. They didn't hire nearly as many people from higher ranked schools compared to TTT. I worked there for a summer and they hired 3-6 TTT and 1 non-TTT.

I don't know how many other firms do that, but I think it makes sense. There were 1-3 senior partners per office and they all did very well for themselves, if you consider CoL for the city it was probably the equivalent of cracking 7 figures in NY.


This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard... As if an attorney who went to a low ranking school is somehow by default a shitty attorney (even for shitlaw like ID), and an attorney who went to a slightly better shitty law school (like UF or a t25) is somehow by default going to make a better attorney. There's even dumb/incredibly lazy people at Harvard, so that generalization seems a bit crazy to me. The prestige thing around biglaw firms has a lot more to do with the biglaw model generally than with the quality of the attorneys. I.e. biglaw firms sold to their clients by telling them that "XYZ top school grad will be working on their case" so that the client feels reassured that he is getting the best legal services possible, and, more importantly, isn't going to get sued by shareholders if the firm loses because the shareholders will think "well at least they hired the best of the best, and they gave it their all." The same definitely doesn't hold true for insurance companies-- they know they aren't getting the best of the best, their goal is to minimize costs.


Quoted poster here. I'm not saying or trying to imply that TTT attorneys are always terrible/genetically inferior or whatever nonsense flies around this board. I just relayed what I was told by partners and associates at the firm. All I can say is that TTT graduates had a much harder time at this firm, they always got stuck on the terrible matters with less than 15k authorization. This was just my experience with a summer firm.

I would like to emphasize again that I am not saying that TTT graduates are incapable of being good attorneys or going to a certain school automatically makes you a great attorney This was just my experience with the one ID firm that I worked at.

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Re: insurance defense

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:06 pm

Just curious, say a 100 atty firm does high end ID work, and the 1st yr associates make 135k. How do people feel about that? Is it all about the money, or are you ideologically opposed to working in "shitlaw" ID.

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Re: insurance defense

Postby XxSpyKEx » Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Just curious, say a 100 atty firm does high end ID work, and the 1st yr associates make 135k. How do people feel about that? Is it all about the money, or are you ideologically opposed to working in "shitlaw" ID.


Some people really enjoy the work, even in the lower end stuff. I guess if you enjoy what you do and are okay with the hours, who cares what random schmucks that you don't associate with think (i.e. who cares if a partner at skadden thinks what you do is shit work if you enjoy it)? I think the higher end ID is probably more interesting and challenging work as well (i.e. you aren't likely going to be working on auto negligence claims and shit like that).

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reasonable_man
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Re: insurance defense

Postby reasonable_man » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:33 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Just curious, say a 100 atty firm does high end ID work, and the 1st yr associates make 135k. How do people feel about that? Is it all about the money, or are you ideologically opposed to working in "shitlaw" ID.


Some people really enjoy the work, even in the lower end stuff. I guess if you enjoy what you do and are okay with the hours, who cares what random schmucks that you don't associate with think (i.e. who cares if a partner at skadden thinks what you do is shit work if you enjoy it)? I think the higher end ID is probably more interesting and challenging work as well (i.e. you aren't likely going to be working on auto negligence claims and shit like that).



Also agree with this... However, it should be noted that NO ID firms, no matter how high end their inventory of cases might be, is offering 135k to start. At the very most 80k or 90k to start and that's high. Starting at a good ID firm is 60 to 80k for the most part.

Aqualibrium
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Re: insurance defense

Postby Aqualibrium » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:25 pm

reasonable_man wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Just curious, say a 100 atty firm does high end ID work, and the 1st yr associates make 135k. How do people feel about that? Is it all about the money, or are you ideologically opposed to working in "shitlaw" ID.


Some people really enjoy the work, even in the lower end stuff. I guess if you enjoy what you do and are okay with the hours, who cares what random schmucks that you don't associate with think (i.e. who cares if a partner at skadden thinks what you do is shit work if you enjoy it)? I think the higher end ID is probably more interesting and challenging work as well (i.e. you aren't likely going to be working on auto negligence claims and shit like that).



Also agree with this... However, it should be noted that NO ID firms, no matter how high end their inventory of cases might be, is offering 135k to start. At the very most 80k or 90k to start and that's high. Starting at a good ID firm is 60 to 80k for the most part.



I've seen firms that are primarily ID that start in the 100-115 range. You're generally spot on RM, but it is never really wise to make such blanket statements. I do get the point you were attempting to make though.




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