Drug Tests and Jobs

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JPrezy87
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Re: Drug Tests and Jobs

Postby JPrezy87 » Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:37 pm

JazzOne wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
rose711 wrote:I don't have much (or any) experience with this - but I would say avoid admitting stuff you've never been caught doing. I think the drug history thing is important if you've been arrested or been in rehab or something - but admitting you tried coke a couple of times at a party is just going to raise red flags. Part of the reason for that is that no one admits that stuff - so if you are honest, they are going to think you have a bigger problem than you do.

This is the absolute worst advice that can be given.

My initial reaction was similar to rose's, but I refrained from posting because I really don't know what the ramifications would be for lying to a government employer and getting caught in the lie. However, I kind of side with rose in thinking that it is unwise to admit to illegal activities about which there is no independent verification. If I was in that position, I probably just wouldn't apply to jobs where that issue was likely to come up.


hmmm...on second thought....the FBI and other government agencies do conduct polys on all their employees don't they??

rose711
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Re: Drug Tests and Jobs

Postby rose711 » Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:01 pm

JPrezy87 wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
rose711 wrote:I don't have much (or any) experience with this - but I would say avoid admitting stuff you've never been caught doing. I think the drug history thing is important if you've been arrested or been in rehab or something - but admitting you tried coke a couple of times at a party is just going to raise red flags. Part of the reason for that is that no one admits that stuff - so if you are honest, they are going to think you have a bigger problem than you do.

This is the absolute worst advice that can be given.

My initial reaction was similar to rose's, but I refrained from posting because I really don't know what the ramifications would be for lying to a government employer and getting caught in the lie. However, I kind of side with rose in thinking that it is unwise to admit to illegal activities about which there is no independent verification. If I was in that position, I probably just wouldn't apply to jobs where that issue was likely to come up.


hmmm...on second thought....the FBI and other government agencies do conduct polys on all their employees don't they??


I would like to know why this is bad advice. Why admit to stuff that people won't find out about in another way? How is this going to come back and hurt you? Note: the circumstances in which this is true--that no one knows what you did and it isn't going to be uncovered-- may be limited.

I really think it depends on the specific facts of each situation. Virtually no one who interviews you will admit to doing any drugs, so you can't say things like "you know how it is" or if they do pretend to go along with you in the interview, they will ding you. My point was that no one is honest about this stuff so if you give a long list of your drug use, it will raise red flags.

It does depend on where you are interviewing and the likelihood they will look into your past. Questions about drugs may be perfunctory in many situations. In others, testing for drug use may be an essential part of interviewing/getting the job.

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JPrezy87
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Re: Drug Tests and Jobs

Postby JPrezy87 » Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:16 pm

rose711 wrote: hmmm...on second thought....the FBI and other government agencies do conduct polys on all their employees don't they??


I would like to know why this is bad advice. Why admit to stuff that people won't find out about in another way? How is this going to come back and hurt you? Note: the circumstances in which this is true--that no one knows what you did and it isn't going to be uncovered-- may be limited.

I really think it depends on the specific facts of each situation. Virtually no one who interviews you will admit to doing any drugs, so you can't say things like "you know how it is" or if they do pretend to go along with you in the interview, they will ding you. My point was that no one is honest about this stuff so if you give a long list of your drug use, it will raise red flags.

It does depend on where you are interviewing and the likelihood they will look into your past. Questions about drugs may be perfunctory in many situations. In others, testing for drug use may be an essential part of interviewing/getting the job.[/quote]


yea...if he was applying for a regular job that didnt require a TS clearance...then yea lie about it....but if hes tryna work with the FBI (which requires a top secret clearance) ...they'll have him undergo a poly...plus theyll talk to nearly everyone he's ever known...and they may find out about his drug past from them...not tryna make him lose sleep...im just sayin :).

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JPrezy87
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Re: Drug Tests and Jobs

Postby JPrezy87 » Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:18 pm

rose711 wrote:
JPrezy87 wrote:
rose711 wrote:I don't have much (or any) experience with this - but I would say avoid admitting stuff you've never been caught doing. I think the drug history thing is important if you've been arrested or been in rehab or something - but admitting you tried coke a couple of times at a party is just going to raise red flags. Part of the reason for that is that no one admits that stuff - so if you are honest, they are going to think you have a bigger problem than you do.

This is the absolute worst advice that can be given.

My initial reaction was similar to rose's, but I refrained from posting because I really don't know what the ramifications would be for lying to a government employer and getting caught in the lie. However, I kind of side with rose in thinking that it is unwise to admit to illegal activities about which there is no independent verification. If I was in that position, I probably just wouldn't apply to jobs where that issue was likely to come up.


hmmm...on second thought....the FBI and other government agencies do conduct polys on all their employees don't they??[/quote]

I would like to know why this is bad advice. Why admit to stuff that people won't find out about in another way? How is this going to come back and hurt you? Note: the circumstances in which this is true--that no one knows what you did and it isn't going to be uncovered-- may be limited.

I really think it depends on the specific facts of each situation. Virtually no one who interviews you will admit to doing any drugs, so you can't say things like "you know how it is" or if they do pretend to go along with you in the interview, they will ding you. My point was that no one is honest about this stuff so if you give a long list of your drug use, it will raise red flags.

It does depend on where you are interviewing and the likelihood they will look into your past. Questions about drugs may be perfunctory in many situations. In others, testing for drug use may be an essential part of interviewing/getting the job.[/quote]

yea...if he was applying for a regular job that didnt require a TS clearance...then yea lie about it....but if hes tryna work with the FBI (which requires a top secret clearance) ...they'll have him undergo a poly...plus theyll talk to nearly everyone he's ever known...and they may find out about his drug past from them...not tryna make him lose sleep...im just sayin :).

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Patriot1208
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Re: Drug Tests and Jobs

Postby Patriot1208 » Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:54 pm

When I get on front of a computer I'll address it further, right now I'm on my phone.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Drug Tests and Jobs

Postby Patriot1208 » Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:49 pm

Ok, sorry for the wait. Everything i'm going to say is specifically referring to DOJ security clearances. I can't comment specifically on a state government background check. But, there are several reasons that withholding information is a terrible idea. First, let me outline the security clearance process. When you fill out your sf-86 you'll be asked for the names and contact information of roommates, spouses, employers, co-workers, friends, schoolmates, and landlords. Then, after interviewing those people, they will ask those people to recommend other people that they can talk to, they will also walk around the neighborhoods and buildings you lived in and talk to neighbors. So, while you can control who they talk to, to an extent, they will talk to people outside of your control. And, what if you had a roommate who disliked you, or a schoolmate who accidentally gave them the info of someone who didn't like you, it's not out of the realm of possibility that they talk to some people who don't care about your best interest first. So, lying about something you did at a party a few times is risky, especially with roommates and schoolmates who you don't have control over and may not feel inclined to fudge the truth for you. So, doing coke a couple times at a party is something that could come back to you if there were other people around who saw you. You will also be subject to periodic drug tests.

Then, if caught lying, at best you can be banned from ever working for the federal government, at worst you can be prosecuted. I imagine it will also bring up issues at C&F. Note: if it's a really small omission they may give you the chance to come clean, but something like experimenting with coke will get you banned from federal government work. But, if you admit to something, anything at all, you are free from prosecution even if it disqualifies. To clarify, prosecuting an applicant who lies is extremely rare, but it has happened. Now, if you do pass the background check, but then it comes out that you lied a couple years later, you can be fired, sued for past earnings, criminally prosecuted and/or have the possibility of being disbarred or at the very least not practicing in any good position again. Again, these are worst case scenarios, but it can happen. And, at the very least, you will be fired and have a very hard time finding another job.

Lastly, to whoever said people don't admit it, you are wrong. You get grilled at these things and everyone who gets a job admits to everything. Most will have done something they were worried about. I had a friend grilled about child pornography till he felt so bad that he admitted to looking at a sorta nude pic of miley cyrus from before she turned 18. He also admitted to drunk driving. He got hired.

TL;DR - Lying puts you in a position that can ruin your career and the background checks go beyond what you can control. People admit to things, everyone does, just be confident and sincere.

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JPrezy87
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Re: Drug Tests and Jobs

Postby JPrezy87 » Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:01 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:Ok, sorry for the wait. Everything i'm going to say is specifically referring to DOJ security clearances. I can't comment specifically on a state government background check. But, there are several reasons that withholding information is a terrible idea. First, let me outline the security clearance process. When you fill out your sf-86 you'll be asked for the names and contact information of roommates, spouses, employers, co-workers, friends, schoolmates, and landlords. Then, after interviewing those people, they will ask those people to recommend other people that they can talk to, they will also walk around the neighborhoods and buildings you lived in and talk to neighbors. So, while you can control who they talk to, to an extent, they will talk to people outside of your control. And, what if you had a roommate who disliked you, or a schoolmate who accidentally gave them the info of someone who didn't like you, it's not out of the realm of possibility that they talk to some people who don't care about your best interest first. So, lying about something you did at a party a few times is risky, especially with roommates and schoolmates who you don't have control over and may not feel inclined to fudge the truth for you. So, doing coke a couple times at a party is something that could come back to you if there were other people around who saw you. You will also be subject to periodic drug tests.

Then, if caught lying, at best you can be banned from ever working for the federal government, at worst you can be prosecuted. I imagine it will also bring up issues at C&F. Note: if it's a really small omission they may give you the chance to come clean, but something like experimenting with coke will get you banned from federal government work. But, if you admit to something, anything at all, you are free from prosecution even if it disqualifies. To clarify, prosecuting an applicant who lies is extremely rare, but it has happened. Now, if you do pass the background check, but then it comes out that you lied a couple years later, you can be fired, sued for past earnings, criminally prosecuted and/or have the possibility of being disbarred or at the very least not practicing in any good position again. Again, these are worst case scenarios, but it can happen. And, at the very least, you will be fired and have a very hard time finding another job.

Lastly, to whoever said people don't admit it, you are wrong. You get grilled at these things and everyone who gets a job admits to everything. Most will have done something they were worried about. I had a friend grilled about child pornography till he felt so bad that he admitted to looking at a sorta nude pic of miley cyrus from before she turned 18. He also admitted to drunk driving. He got hired.

TL;DR - Lying puts you in a position that can ruin your career and the background checks go beyond what you can control. People admit to things, everyone does, just be confident and sincere.


oh oh...yea of course youll need be 110 % honest while undergoing a TS clearance...cause...like I said...you'll undergo a poly and plus they'll dig pretty deep into your past..my bad it was a misunderstanding i thought you were talking about work at some law firm or something :roll:

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JPrezy87
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Re: Drug Tests and Jobs

Postby JPrezy87 » Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:02 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:Ok, sorry for the wait. Everything i'm going to say is specifically referring to DOJ security clearances. I can't comment specifically on a state government background check. But, there are several reasons that withholding information is a terrible idea. First, let me outline the security clearance process. When you fill out your sf-86 you'll be asked for the names and contact information of roommates, spouses, employers, co-workers, friends, schoolmates, and landlords. Then, after interviewing those people, they will ask those people to recommend other people that they can talk to, they will also walk around the neighborhoods and buildings you lived in and talk to neighbors. So, while you can control who they talk to, to an extent, they will talk to people outside of your control. And, what if you had a roommate who disliked you, or a schoolmate who accidentally gave them the info of someone who didn't like you, it's not out of the realm of possibility that they talk to some people who don't care about your best interest first. So, lying about something you did at a party a few times is risky, especially with roommates and schoolmates who you don't have control over and may not feel inclined to fudge the truth for you. So, doing coke a couple times at a party is something that could come back to you if there were other people around who saw you. You will also be subject to periodic drug tests.

Then, if caught lying, at best you can be banned from ever working for the federal government, at worst you can be prosecuted. I imagine it will also bring up issues at C&F. Note: if it's a really small omission they may give you the chance to come clean, but something like experimenting with coke will get you banned from federal government work. But, if you admit to something, anything at all, you are free from prosecution even if it disqualifies. To clarify, prosecuting an applicant who lies is extremely rare, but it has happened. Now, if you do pass the background check, but then it comes out that you lied a couple years later, you can be fired, sued for past earnings, criminally prosecuted and/or have the possibility of being disbarred or at the very least not practicing in any good position again. Again, these are worst case scenarios, but it can happen. And, at the very least, you will be fired and have a very hard time finding another job.

Lastly, to whoever said people don't admit it, you are wrong. You get grilled at these things and everyone who gets a job admits to everything. Most will have done something they were worried about. I had a friend grilled about child pornography till he felt so bad that he admitted to looking at a sorta nude pic of miley cyrus from before she turned 18. He also admitted to drunk driving. He got hired.

TL;DR - Lying puts you in a position that can ruin your career and the background checks go beyond what you can control. People admit to things, everyone does, just be confident and sincere.

oh...and with state bar character and fitness background checks arent really that thorough...are they??

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Patriot1208
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Re: Drug Tests and Jobs

Postby Patriot1208 » Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:37 pm

JPrezy87 wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:Ok, sorry for the wait. Everything i'm going to say is specifically referring to DOJ security clearances. I can't comment specifically on a state government background check. But, there are several reasons that withholding information is a terrible idea. First, let me outline the security clearance process. When you fill out your sf-86 you'll be asked for the names and contact information of roommates, spouses, employers, co-workers, friends, schoolmates, and landlords. Then, after interviewing those people, they will ask those people to recommend other people that they can talk to, they will also walk around the neighborhoods and buildings you lived in and talk to neighbors. So, while you can control who they talk to, to an extent, they will talk to people outside of your control. And, what if you had a roommate who disliked you, or a schoolmate who accidentally gave them the info of someone who didn't like you, it's not out of the realm of possibility that they talk to some people who don't care about your best interest first. So, lying about something you did at a party a few times is risky, especially with roommates and schoolmates who you don't have control over and may not feel inclined to fudge the truth for you. So, doing coke a couple times at a party is something that could come back to you if there were other people around who saw you. You will also be subject to periodic drug tests.

Then, if caught lying, at best you can be banned from ever working for the federal government, at worst you can be prosecuted. I imagine it will also bring up issues at C&F. Note: if it's a really small omission they may give you the chance to come clean, but something like experimenting with coke will get you banned from federal government work. But, if you admit to something, anything at all, you are free from prosecution even if it disqualifies. To clarify, prosecuting an applicant who lies is extremely rare, but it has happened. Now, if you do pass the background check, but then it comes out that you lied a couple years later, you can be fired, sued for past earnings, criminally prosecuted and/or have the possibility of being disbarred or at the very least not practicing in any good position again. Again, these are worst case scenarios, but it can happen. And, at the very least, you will be fired and have a very hard time finding another job.

Lastly, to whoever said people don't admit it, you are wrong. You get grilled at these things and everyone who gets a job admits to everything. Most will have done something they were worried about. I had a friend grilled about child pornography till he felt so bad that he admitted to looking at a sorta nude pic of miley cyrus from before she turned 18. He also admitted to drunk driving. He got hired.

TL;DR - Lying puts you in a position that can ruin your career and the background checks go beyond what you can control. People admit to things, everyone does, just be confident and sincere.


oh oh...yea of course youll need be 110 % honest while undergoing a TS clearance...cause...like I said...you'll undergo a poly and plus they'll dig pretty deep into your past..my bad it was a misunderstanding i thought you were talking about work at some law firm or something :roll:

OP didn't specify private v. public but I specifically responded to the person asking about security clearances and coke. There may have been some confusion within a few posts. Also, i'm fairly certain DOJ attorneys do not have to undergo polygraphs but I could be mistaken.

thegor1987
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Re: Drug Tests and Jobs

Postby thegor1987 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:31 am

If you don't have any criminal cocaine charges or records of cocaine use in rehab facilities then no one will ever find out, you don't have to disclose it.




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