CCN Students without Offers

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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:While I know this can't help you now, it might not be your interviewing skills - it might just have been your bid list.

THIS. Of the people I know without offers, most aimed wayyy too high and in DC/CA. Now, I'm not positive what their grades were, but I know they weren't top third, so they had no business blanketing the v30 with bids. (You like Quinn DC? Get. Out.) Career Services did a horrible job of explaining that grade cut-offs weren't just some abstract idea or suggestion unless you were black (hell, a lot of people at CLS didn't even know they existed because OCS didn't provide them like they do at NYU). The story of an interviewer basically telling some girl her grades were too low and asking why she was wasting the partner's time is, like, way harsh Tai, but should serve as a warning to the class of 2013 next July. People also internalized the entire bidding process, instead of talking to friends (who maybe knew more about firms than they did?) to get help, and thought too much about which firms for whom they would want to work, as opposed to what firms might like them.


It wasn't just DC/LA, I know people who struck out, even with strong ties, in almost every market (with maybe the exception of TX). OCS DID NOT warn people that most of the callbacks in each secondary market will go to the same group of high-grade people. They also did a horrible job structuring people's bid lists to avoid bidding highly on firms that were going to become available during add/drop anyway.

For 1Ls who will inevitably thinking about bidding on Chi/NY or your secondary market- the firms from your home market will take back a small number of people. When you go to OCI, you'll see the same people on the list for that market. Most likely, the few people in that group with the highest grades will get all the callbacks. Since the firms have local schools to get most of their class from, they don't care that much about getting a CCN student to bother to yield protect. In the end, those students will all the callbacks will decline most of them and go to a DC or NY firm.

I think the reason we don't have an open list-serv is to prevent students from writing open letters to the administration blasting all of their horrible judgments. More transfers! Bigger 1L classes! Worthless bid advice! No mass-mail instructions! The fear of ATL is embarrassing. Have they even looked at the results of the Student Senate idea generator?

But hey, the LLMs wanted another microwave in Lenfest for their hot water and goddammit, they got one. fuck, I really hate the LLMs.

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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:04 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:While I know this can't help you now, it might not be your interviewing skills - it might just have been your bid list.

THIS. Of the people I know without offers, most aimed wayyy too high and in DC/CA. Now, I'm not positive what their grades were, but I know they weren't top third, so they had no business blanketing the v30 with bids. (You like Quinn DC? Get. Out.) Career Services did a horrible job of explaining that grade cut-offs weren't just some abstract idea or suggestion unless you were black (hell, a lot of people at CLS didn't even know they existed because OCS didn't provide them like they do at NYU). The story of an interviewer basically telling some girl her grades were too low and asking why she was wasting the partner's time is, like, way harsh Tai, but should serve as a warning to the class of 2013 next July. People also internalized the entire bidding process, instead of talking to friends (who maybe knew more about firms than they did?) to get help, and thought too much about which firms for whom they would want to work, as opposed to what firms might like them.


It wasn't just DC/LA, I know people who struck out, even with strong ties, in almost every market (with maybe the exception of TX). OCS DID NOT warn people that most of the callbacks in each secondary market will go to the same group of high-grade people. They also did a horrible job structuring people's bid lists to avoid bidding highly on firms that were going to become available during add/drop anyway.

For 1Ls who will inevitably thinking about bidding on Chi/NY or your secondary market- the firms from your home market will take back a small number of people. When you go to OCI, you'll see the same people on the list for that market. Most likely, the few people in that group with the highest grades will get all the callbacks. Since the firms have local schools to get most of their class from, they don't care that much about getting a CCN student to bother to yield protect. In the end, those students will all the callbacks will decline most of them and go to a DC or NY firm.

I think the reason we don't have an open list-serv is to prevent students from writing open letters to the administration blasting all of their horrible judgments. More transfers! Bigger 1L classes! Worthless bid advice! No mass-mail instructions! The fear of ATL is embarrassing. Have they even looked at the results of the Student Senate idea generator?

But hey, the LLMs wanted another microwave in Lenfest for their hot water and goddammit, they got one. fuck, I really hate the LLMs.


I have no doubt with an active career services department that gave personalized advice to every student, especially focused on students with median grades and no WE (ie those most at-risk for striking out), and number-crunched data from previous years to find where people could bid better, CLS could beat NYU by 10% or more in biglaw placement out of EIP. Last year I think we actually did worse than our downtown rival and that was with transfers skewing the numbers upward.

The problem is, barring a Wiemar Germany style depression, there will never be a critical mass of CLS students with no jobs to cause the kind of student uprising needed to get them to actually care. I'd say over 60% of the student body has a job right now. If that number was 25%, you'd have riots.

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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby Unemployed » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:10 am

Anonymous User wrote:I think the reason we don't have an open list-serv is to prevent students from writing open letters to the administration blasting all of their horrible judgments. More transfers! Bigger 1L classes! Worthless bid advice! No mass-mail instructions! The fear of ATL is embarrassing. Have they even looked at the results of the Student Senate idea generator?

But hey, the LLMs wanted another microwave in Lenfest for their hot water and goddammit, they got one. fuck, I really hate the LLMs.


What is this idea generator?

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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:17 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:THIS. Of the people I know without offers, most aimed wayyy too high and in DC/CA. Now, I'm not positive what their grades were, but I know they weren't top third, so they had no business blanketing the v30 with bids. (You like Quinn DC? Get. Out.) Career Services did a horrible job of explaining that grade cut-offs weren't just some abstract idea or suggestion unless you were black (hell, a lot of people at CLS didn't even know they existed because OCS didn't provide them like they do at NYU). The story of an interviewer basically telling some girl her grades were too low and asking why she was wasting the partner's time is, like, way harsh Tai, but should serve as a warning to the class of 2013 next July. People also internalized the entire bidding process, instead of talking to friends (who maybe knew more about firms than they did?) to get help, and thought too much about which firms for whom they would want to work, as opposed to what firms might like them.


It wasn't just DC/LA, I know people who struck out, even with strong ties, in almost every market (with maybe the exception of TX). OCS DID NOT warn people that most of the callbacks in each secondary market will go to the same group of high-grade people. They also did a horrible job structuring people's bid lists to avoid bidding highly on firms that were going to become available during add/drop anyway.

For 1Ls who will inevitably thinking about bidding on Chi/NY or your secondary market- the firms from your home market will take back a small number of people. When you go to OCI, you'll see the same people on the list for that market. Most likely, the few people in that group with the highest grades will get all the callbacks. Since the firms have local schools to get most of their class from, they don't care that much about getting a CCN student to bother to yield protect. In the end, those students will all the callbacks will decline most of them and go to a DC or NY firm.

I think the reason we don't have an open list-serv is to prevent students from writing open letters to the administration blasting all of their horrible judgments. More transfers! Bigger 1L classes! Worthless bid advice! No mass-mail instructions! The fear of ATL is embarrassing. Have they even looked at the results of the Student Senate idea generator?

But hey, the LLMs wanted another microwave in Lenfest for their hot water and goddammit, they got one. fuck, I really hate the LLMs.


I have no doubt with an active career services department that gave personalized advice to every student, especially focused on students with median grades and no WE (ie those most at-risk for striking out), and number-crunched data from previous years to find where people could bid better, CLS could beat NYU by 10% or more in biglaw placement out of EIP. Last year I think we actually did worse than our downtown rival and that was with transfers skewing the numbers upward.

The problem is, barring a Wiemar Germany style depression, there will never be a critical mass of CLS students with no jobs to cause the kind of student uprising needed to get them to actually care. I'd say over 60% of the student body has a job right now. If that number was 25%, you'd have riots.

There are a bunch of upperclassmen JDU/TLS/XOXO/ATL comments addicts who know more about firm hiring than OCS.

But even when there is a student uprising (see: more transfers), the administration doesn't seem to care. I think it's going to take the ridiculousness going public for them to notice. Seriously, someone should write a Pls Help Thx! to Marin next week asking what they needed to do to make their Career Services actually do something to help them attain a job at a time when the school is opening its doors to more students than ever.

Sidebar: If we went to HYS-style non-grades, would that increase the job placement and maybe mitigate some of the worthlessness of OCS?

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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby policestate1234 » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:23 am

Any advice to OLs thinking about going to law school this year?

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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:25 am

policestate1234 wrote:Any advice to OLs thinking about going to law school this year?

how many times to link... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMvARy0lBLE

But if you have CCN numbers, it might be worth the risk. I should not be this pessimistic.

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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby policestate1234 » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:27 am

Anonymous User wrote:
policestate1234 wrote:Any advice to OLs thinking about going to law school this year?

how many times to link... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMvARy0lBLE

But if you have CCN numbers, it might be worth the risk. I should not be this pessimistic.


Let me rephrase: Any advice to OLs thinking about law school this year who are going into one of the T14 law schools?

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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby Aqualibrium » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:30 am

What can OCS do though? I think people come into law school with a fundamentally flawed idea of what OCS is supposed to do. Of course, it's partially their fault as well; we don't know what they do day to day, and they do nothing to explain to us what it is they do. Still, I have to ask, what exactly should they do differently?

Most criticisms I've heard from people about OCS are things they should have know to do themselves. Things like target mailing, networking, researching specific firms, knowing whether a firm is plaintiffs or defense, understanding that interviews are all about whether or not they like you, not waisting bids (if you don't have unlimited bids), having good questions to ask, etc...

When I do those things with no prompting or hand holding, but you need someone to tell you or show you how to do it, I personally think you dilute the applicant pool, and that is unfair to me.

I've read and heard the criticisms; what is the solution? What do they do wrong that needs correcting? What should they do more of?

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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:39 am

policestate1234 wrote:Any advice to OLs thinking about going to law school this year?


I'd advise taking a year or two off to work and get a little $ tucked away, but if you're in a situation where it's going to be really hard to find a paying gig (I know options for post-college jobs are very different depending on your UG/major combo) that will cover your expenses and allow you to get savings, I wouldn't worry about deferring.

Once you're there, study hard and study smart. Law school should be 40 hrs a week until a month before finals when it should be 60 or more.

Anonymous User wrote:But even when there is a student uprising (see: more transfers), the administration doesn't seem to care. I think it's going to take the ridiculousness going public for them to notice. Seriously, someone should write a Pls Help Thx! to Marin next week asking what they needed to do to make their Career Services actually do something to help them attain a job at a time when the school is opening its doors to more students than ever.

Sidebar: If we went to HYS-style non-grades, would that increase the job placement and maybe mitigate some of the worthlessness of OCS?


Doubt it. Most of the stress at CLS comes from the +/- distinctions. HYS still has grades, only they can get away with eliminating +/- because the ranking only needs to be carried out for a smaller % of legal jobs- i.e. clerkships and elite firms. Our graduates aren't in that high demand yet.

What would have been effective this year is a 3L mentor (even if they weren't in your situation at EIP maybe they could point you in the direction of someone who is) or maybe a listserv type of thing where people can post anonymous advice. The only problem is it would be very easy to out people.

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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby bigben » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:40 am

boalt2l wrote:If you guys are thinking about dropping out because you have no job in October of your 2L year, you are being totally foolish. You should have dropped out even if you got a job, because you might get no-offered. What if you got an offer, and the firms decides to revoke your 3L year? If you really think that working at Biglaw is the only way to success as a lawyer, you should drop out, because you are an idiot.

If you're unable to imagine any scenario in which dropping out because of a failure to get biglaw could make sense, then you're the idiot.

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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:55 am

Aqualibrium wrote:What can OCS do though? I think people come into law school with a fundamentally flawed idea of what OCS is supposed to do. Of course, it's partially their fault as well; we don't know what they do day to day, and they do nothing to explain to us what it is they do. Still, I have to ask, what exactly should they do differently?

Most criticisms I've heard from people about OCS are things they should have know to do themselves. Things like target mailing, networking, researching specific firms, knowing whether a firm is plaintiffs or defense, understanding that interviews are all about whether or not they like you, not waisting bids (if you don't have unlimited bids), having good questions to ask, etc...

When I do those things with no prompting or hand holding, but you need someone to tell you or show you how to do it, I personally think you dilute the applicant pool, and that is unfair to me.

I've read and heard the criticisms; what is the solution? What do they do wrong that needs correcting? What should they do more of?

Most of the things you listed aren't at issue. Speaking specifically about the issues of CLS OCS (since that was the previous topic of conversation), off the top of my head...
They can use the data they have on hand (transcripts + all the callback/offer data they already have) to give out historical GPA cut-offs. Everything is currently divided between top third/not top third. Not that helpful.
They can be honest with students when they show their career counselors their bid lists (since they already have transcripts/resumes), and let students know when they've overbid or concentrated too highly on a rough non-NY market.
They should provide bid trending for more than the previous year to better able students to rank their bids.
They could make past EIP data available to people who are not in New York and don't have friends that transcribed/photoed it all.

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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:07 am

Aqualibrium wrote:What can OCS do though? I think people come into law school with a fundamentally flawed idea of what OCS is supposed to do. Of course, it's partially their fault as well; we don't know what they do day to day, and they do nothing to explain to us what it is they do. Still, I have to ask, what exactly should they do differently?

Most criticisms I've heard from people about OCS are things they should have know to do themselves. Things like target mailing, networking, researching specific firms, knowing whether a firm is plaintiffs or defense, understanding that interviews are all about whether or not they like you, not waisting bids (if you don't have unlimited bids), having good questions to ask, etc...

When I do those things with no prompting or hand holding, but you need someone to tell you or show you how to do it, I personally think you dilute the applicant pool, and that is unfair to me.

I've read and heard the criticisms; what is the solution? What do they do wrong that needs correcting? What should they do more of?


You're giving people a lot less credit for the research that they did. Nobody I know would ever go into OCI thinking they were interviewing with plaintiffs firms (unless they had an interview with Susman). At CLS EIP people were doing tons of research, more than necessary tbh.

Nobody should get shut out of OCI because they bid poorly, and with the level of advice we are getting from OCS we won't know that until after OCI. How do you know if you are "wasting" a bid, when there is no data on GPA cutoffs or whether that firm was over or under bid? How do you know not to bid on your home market where you will get shut out if the data provided doesn't tell you whether 80% of the cbs in that market went to 7/40 people and those people happened to be around or above X GPA? All we have is anecdotes. They are the ones with last year's figures.

There are also things people could do themselves but that OCS could reasonably make a lot easier. They should give candid advice that well-connected 2Ls get from their 3L friends or practicing attorney's. If you get shut out of OCI, OCS should have a spreadsheet with every firm and gov't org not coming to OCI and their contact info so you can get your apps out within a weekend rather than "check the Arizona guide and NALP". They could probably ask students for their spreadsheets and compile them into a list (I have one I would be willing to give).

And I do think OCS should pay more attention to people who might not fare so well at OCI than those who have traditionally done well. Top 25% at CCN doesn't need more than a "go on 15-20 interviews and don't drool on yourself" advice. Bottom 25% needs a personalized game plan. Remember, it's in OCSs best interest to see that everyone is employed. You may think it "dilutes the applicant pool" but I know people from DC or SF who bid on those places, thinking ties would help, and got nothing. That's not the same as thinking Cravath is a plaintiff's firm. That's a reasonable assumption that, because this is a fucked up system that none of us really understands, turns out to be wrong. And having someone in a position of authority to tell those people "hey, last year's data shows that people with your GPA don't do so well at X firm or in X market" would be really helpful.

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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:12 am

Anonymous User wrote:You're giving people a lot less credit for the research that they did. Nobody I know would ever go into OCI thinking they were interviewing with plaintiffs firms (unless they had an interview with Susman). At CLS EIP people were doing tons of research, more than necessary tbh.

Nobody should get shut out of OCI because they bid poorly, and with the level of advice we are getting from OCS we won't know that until after OCI. How do you know if you are "wasting" a bid, when there is no data on GPA cutoffs or whether that firm was over or under bid? How do you know not to bid on your home market where you will get shut out if the data provided doesn't tell you whether 80% of the cbs in that market went to 7/40 people and those people happened to be around or above X GPA? All we have is anecdotes. They are the ones with last year's figures.

There are also things people could do themselves but that OCS could reasonably make a lot easier. They should give candid advice that well-connected 2Ls get from their 3L friends or practicing attorney's. If you get shut out of OCI, OCS should have a spreadsheet with every firm and gov't org not coming to OCI and their contact info so you can get your apps out within a weekend rather than "check the Arizona guide and NALP". They could probably ask students for their spreadsheets and compile them into a list (I have one I would be willing to give).

And I do think OCS should pay more attention to people who might not fare so well at OCI than those who have traditionally done well. Top 25% at CCN doesn't need more than a "go on 15-20 interviews and don't drool on yourself" advice. Bottom 25% needs a personalized game plan. Remember, it's in OCSs best interest to see that everyone is employed. You may think it "dilutes the applicant pool" but I know people from DC or SF who bid on those places, thinking ties would help, and got nothing. That's not the same as thinking Cravath is a plaintiff's firm. That's a reasonable assumption that, because this is a fucked up system that none of us really understands, turns out to be wrong. And having someone in a position of authority to tell those people "hey, last year's data shows that people with your GPA don't do so well at X firm or in X market" would be really helpful.



Hear, hear!

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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:13 am

policestate1234 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
policestate1234 wrote:Any advice to OLs thinking about going to law school this year?

how many times to link... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMvARy0lBLE

But if you have CCN numbers, it might be worth the risk. I should not be this pessimistic.


Let me rephrase: Any advice to OLs thinking about law school this year who are going into one of the T14 law schools?

Depends on the T14 and desired job/market.

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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby Aqualibrium » Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:28 am

Anonymous User wrote:You're giving people a lot less credit for the research that they did. Nobody I know would ever go into OCI thinking they were interviewing with plaintiffs firms (unless they had an interview with Susman). At CLS EIP people were doing tons of research, more than necessary tbh.

Nobody should get shut out of OCI because they bid poorly, and with the level of advice we are getting from OCS we won't know that until after OCI. How do you know if you are "wasting" a bid, when there is no data on GPA cutoffs or whether that firm was over or under bid? How do you know not to bid on your home market where you will get shut out if the data provided doesn't tell you whether 80% of the cbs in that market went to 7/40 people and those people happened to be around or above X GPA? All we have is anecdotes. They are the ones with last year's figures.

There are also things people could do themselves but that OCS could reasonably make a lot easier. They should give candid advice that well-connected 2Ls get from their 3L friends or practicing attorney's. If you get shut out of OCI, OCS should have a spreadsheet with every firm and gov't org not coming to OCI and their contact info so you can get your apps out within a weekend rather than "check the Arizona guide and NALP". They could probably ask students for their spreadsheets and compile them into a list (I have one I would be willing to give).

And I do think OCS should pay more attention to people who might not fare so well at OCI than those who have traditionally done well. Top 25% at CCN doesn't need more than a "go on 15-20 interviews and don't drool on yourself" advice. Bottom 25% needs a personalized game plan. Remember, it's in OCSs best interest to see that everyone is employed. You may think it "dilutes the applicant pool" but I know people from DC or SF who bid on those places, thinking ties would help, and got nothing. That's not the same as thinking Cravath is a plaintiff's firm. That's a reasonable assumption that, because this is a fucked up system that none of us really understands, turns out to be wrong. And having someone in a position of authority to tell those people "hey, last year's data shows that people with your GPA don't do so well at X firm or in X market" would be really helpful.



The critiques you've listed are legit to me. Your OCS obviously has many more data points at their disposal, and you've done a good job of pointing out that they could be used better. All of the criticisms I listed were from people at my school. Apparently, most people at CLS dont have those same issues with preparedness.

I do take issue with one thing you said though:

OCS should have a spreadsheet with every firm and gov't org not coming to OCI and their contact info so you can get your apps out within a weekend rather than "check the Arizona guide and NALP".


Again, these are the kinds of things that I think dilute the applicant pool. If I worked on a spreadsheet for multiple markets all of July and/or got a similar sheet from a 3L buddy (both of which I actually did), but you didn't do any of that, is it fair to me for OCS to just give you a sheet with all the work done already? Is it in their best interest to have employers on the list flooded with any and every candidate, or would it be better if a few students who put in the work and thought about where they were applying sent their apps? Isn't what you're suggesting essentially a resume drop?

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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:20 am

Aqualibrium wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:You're giving people a lot less credit for the research that they did. Nobody I know would ever go into OCI thinking they were interviewing with plaintiffs firms (unless they had an interview with Susman). At CLS EIP people were doing tons of research, more than necessary tbh.

Nobody should get shut out of OCI because they bid poorly, and with the level of advice we are getting from OCS we won't know that until after OCI. How do you know if you are "wasting" a bid, when there is no data on GPA cutoffs or whether that firm was over or under bid? How do you know not to bid on your home market where you will get shut out if the data provided doesn't tell you whether 80% of the cbs in that market went to 7/40 people and those people happened to be around or above X GPA? All we have is anecdotes. They are the ones with last year's figures.

There are also things people could do themselves but that OCS could reasonably make a lot easier. They should give candid advice that well-connected 2Ls get from their 3L friends or practicing attorney's. If you get shut out of OCI, OCS should have a spreadsheet with every firm and gov't org not coming to OCI and their contact info so you can get your apps out within a weekend rather than "check the Arizona guide and NALP". They could probably ask students for their spreadsheets and compile them into a list (I have one I would be willing to give).

And I do think OCS should pay more attention to people who might not fare so well at OCI than those who have traditionally done well. Top 25% at CCN doesn't need more than a "go on 15-20 interviews and don't drool on yourself" advice. Bottom 25% needs a personalized game plan. Remember, it's in OCSs best interest to see that everyone is employed. You may think it "dilutes the applicant pool" but I know people from DC or SF who bid on those places, thinking ties would help, and got nothing. That's not the same as thinking Cravath is a plaintiff's firm. That's a reasonable assumption that, because this is a fucked up system that none of us really understands, turns out to be wrong. And having someone in a position of authority to tell those people "hey, last year's data shows that people with your GPA don't do so well at X firm or in X market" would be really helpful.



The critiques you've listed are legit to me. Your OCS obviously has many more data points at their disposal, and you've done a good job of pointing out that they could be used better. All of the criticisms I listed were from people at my school. Apparently, most people at CLS dont have those same issues with preparedness.

I do take issue with one thing you said though:

OCS should have a spreadsheet with every firm and gov't org not coming to OCI and their contact info so you can get your apps out within a weekend rather than "check the Arizona guide and NALP".


Again, these are the kinds of things that I think dilute the applicant pool. If I worked on a spreadsheet for multiple markets all of July and/or got a similar sheet from a 3L buddy (both of which I actually did), but you didn't do any of that, is it fair to me for OCS to just give you a sheet with all the work done already? Is it in their best interest to have employers on the list flooded with any and every candidate, or would it be better if a few students who put in the work and thought about where they were applying sent their apps? Isn't what you're suggesting essentially a resume drop?


I think it's in OCSs interest to be that 3L buddy for the entire student body- giving us the heads up tips only people familiar with this process will know. You obviously put tons of effort into researching other firms- again, so did I, but three weeks after OCI. When I mentioned my grades to OCS in July, nobody said "okay, you should also mass mail firms you didn't bid with to pick up more slots and firms that don't come to OCI."

And I think there will still be the divide between people who work hard, send out targeted mailings before OCI, and the lazy ones who wait until the last rejections are in or later to start mailing, even with a provided list. When the advice OCS is giving says "the first priority should be getting your grades up for 3L year," well, I could spend more time doing that if my applications were already circulating.

I like to think of it as "substance-procedure" distinction. You can get rejected based on your resume, transcript, personality. But nobody should go jobless because they bid wrong or sent out apps a month late.

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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby ak13 » Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:47 am

Can I ask what type of law everyone here can't seem to get a job in? I've been under the impression that patent law firms are almost always looking, and from what I've seen, that hasn't been mentioned yet, so I think I'll be safe, especially after another 3 years of economical recovery...

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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:50 am

But even when there is a student uprising (see: more transfers), the administration doesn't seem to care. I think it's going to take the ridiculousness going public for them to notice. Seriously, someone should write a Pls Help Thx! to Marin next week asking what they needed to do to make their Career Services actually do something to help them attain a job at a time when the school is opening its doors to more students than ever.


I don't think an uprising going public is that difficult. It just takes some careful thought and maybe knowing one or two people who could provide some strategic help.

I think there should be an uprising for the sake of the 0Ls and applicants who might not know what they're getting themselves into. OCS has a serious incentive to mask the current situation, which is why I think some of us weren't given 100% accurate advice. They gave the same pre-EIP presentation that they've been giving before the economy crashed, or am I wrong?

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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby 12262010 » Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:57 am

ak13 wrote:Can I ask what type of law everyone here can't seem to get a job in? I've been under the impression that patent law firms are almost always looking, and from what I've seen, that hasn't been mentioned yet, so I think I'll be safe, especially after another 3 years of economical recovery...


Most people are probably doing lit and/or corporate.

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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby rayiner » Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:04 am

ak13 wrote:Can I ask what type of law everyone here can't seem to get a job in? I've been under the impression that patent law firms are almost always looking, and from what I've seen, that hasn't been mentioned yet, so I think I'll be safe, especially after another 3 years of economical recovery...


In this economy, ME is not a marketable patent law degree.

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ak13
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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby ak13 » Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:46 am

rayiner wrote:
ak13 wrote:Can I ask what type of law everyone here can't seem to get a job in? I've been under the impression that patent law firms are almost always looking, and from what I've seen, that hasn't been mentioned yet, so I think I'll be safe, especially after another 3 years of economical recovery...


In this economy, ME is not a marketable patent law degree.


so you're saying i'm screwed? awesome, thanks

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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby rayiner » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:11 pm

ak13 wrote:
rayiner wrote:
ak13 wrote:Can I ask what type of law everyone here can't seem to get a job in? I've been under the impression that patent law firms are almost always looking, and from what I've seen, that hasn't been mentioned yet, so I think I'll be safe, especially after another 3 years of economical recovery...


In this economy, ME is not a marketable patent law degree.


so you're saying i'm screwed? awesome, thanks


Not saying you're screwed. You'll have an edge relative to your typical liberal arts major at CCN. You just won't get the huge "IP boost" that EE/CS (and apparently BME, ITE) majors get.

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ak13
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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby ak13 » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:30 pm

rayiner wrote:
ak13 wrote:
rayiner wrote:
ak13 wrote:Can I ask what type of law everyone here can't seem to get a job in? I've been under the impression that patent law firms are almost always looking, and from what I've seen, that hasn't been mentioned yet, so I think I'll be safe, especially after another 3 years of economical recovery...


In this economy, ME is not a marketable patent law degree.


so you're saying i'm screwed? awesome, thanks


Not saying you're screwed. You'll have an edge relative to your typical liberal arts major at CCN. You just won't get the huge "IP boost" that EE/CS (and apparently BME, ITE) majors get.


oh, ok. i almost just lost it. i'm very confident in my abilities, my personality and interpersonal skills among many other things. this damn forum has done nothing but destroy my aforementioned confidence.

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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby rayiner » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:39 pm

ak13 wrote:
rayiner wrote:
ak13 wrote:
rayiner wrote:
In this economy, ME is not a marketable patent law degree.


so you're saying i'm screwed? awesome, thanks


Not saying you're screwed. You'll have an edge relative to your typical liberal arts major at CCN. You just won't get the huge "IP boost" that EE/CS (and apparently BME, ITE) majors get.


oh, ok. i almost just lost it. i'm very confident in my abilities, my personality and interpersonal skills among many other things. this damn forum has done nothing but destroy my aforementioned confidence.


It'll be fine. Just get good grades and diversify your bids at OCI. Don't be surprised if a lot of your "safety" patent boutiques reject you because they just don't need any more ME people.

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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:41 pm

rayiner wrote:
ak13 wrote:
oh, ok. i almost just lost it. i'm very confident in my abilities, my personality and interpersonal skills among many other things. this damn forum has done nothing but destroy my aforementioned confidence.


It'll be fine. Just get good grades and diversify your bids at OCI. Don't be surprised if a lot of your "safety" patent boutiques reject you because they just don't need any more ME people.


Credited. Those of us in bad situations could probably have avoided our present troubles if we had been better informed about how to tackle the job search. The primary piece of advice is: starting before summer break, or perhaps very early during the summer break, find some upperclassmen and ask them what to do. That way, you won't have to try to piece things together like we did, an effort which sometimes leads to catastrophic failure.




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