CCN Students without Offers

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Kohinoor
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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby Kohinoor » Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:no offer yet either, from CCN.
i guess i should work at a public interest organization this summer. one thing that i really dislike about this prospect is that i'll be doing something that any 1Ls can do as well.

unlike the huge value add your 2L year would have provided in firm life.

Anonymous User
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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:01 pm

green wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:no offer yet either, from CCN.
i guess i should work at a public interest organization this summer. one thing that i really dislike about this prospect is that i'll be doing something that any 1Ls can do as well.


...aaannnd I'm sure they're gonna love you in public service.
my employer won't be happy with my work because i dared to prefer a job where my second year of legal education would be valued? flawless logic.

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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:02 pm

Kohinoor wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:no offer yet either, from CCN.
i guess i should work at a public interest organization this summer. one thing that i really dislike about this prospect is that i'll be doing something that any 1Ls can do as well.

unlike the huge value add your 2L year would have provided in firm life.
this obviously depends on the classes you take.

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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:03 pm

MVPB student here. I'm interested in hearing how you all have been doing your mailings. I'm below median, mailed only about 35 firms, and I got 7 interviews out of it. Granted, none of those interviews were in NYC or DC, but that's not what I wanted (well, maybe NYC, but I wasn't NYC or bust). Are you focusing only on major markets? Major firms? Only NALP firms?

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General Tso
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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby General Tso » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I am also a CNN student with no offers. I did a late mass mailing of about 200 firms, and got so far one call back out of it.


This gives me reason to question the effectiveness of this method...

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Kohinoor
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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby Kohinoor » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:no offer yet either, from CCN.
i guess i should work at a public interest organization this summer. one thing that i really dislike about this prospect is that i'll be doing something that any 1Ls can do as well.

unlike the huge value add your 2L year would have provided in firm life.
this obviously depends on the classes you take.
I can't think of any practice area where a 2L course load would let you hit the ground running leaving 1Ls in the sand.

Anonymous User
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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:MVPB student here. I'm interested in hearing how you all have been doing your mailings. I'm below median, mailed only about 35 firms, and I got 7 interviews out of it. Granted, none of those interviews were in NYC or DC, but that's not what I wanted (well, maybe NYC, but I wasn't NYC or bust). Are you focusing only on major markets? Major firms? Only NALP firms?

Wow that is impressive. What is the size of the market you're targeting? Also, do you attach your transcript?

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Kohinoor
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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby Kohinoor » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:07 pm

General Tso wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am also a CNN student with no offers. I did a late mass mailing of about 200 firms, and got so far one call back out of it.


This gives me reason to question the effectiveness of this method...

200 for 1 callback and a potential offer or do nothing and get nothing...

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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:08 pm

Kohinoor wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:no offer yet either, from CCN.
i guess i should work at a public interest organization this summer. one thing that i really dislike about this prospect is that i'll be doing something that any 1Ls can do as well.

unlike the huge value add your 2L year would have provided in firm life.
this obviously depends on the classes you take.
I can't think of any practice area where a 2L course load would let you hit the ground running leaving 1Ls in the sand.
I guess you in particular don't learn much from classes in general if an extra year of law school classes don't help you at all.

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Kohinoor
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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby Kohinoor » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I guess you in particular don't learn much from classes in general if an extra year of law school classes don't help you at all.

And I guess you in particular have never worked at a firm if you think that taking one or two courses in a practice area make you substantially more proficient at practice than a 1L given a 3 day heads up.

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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:MVPB student here. I'm interested in hearing how you all have been doing your mailings. I'm below median, mailed only about 35 firms, and I got 7 interviews out of it. Granted, none of those interviews were in NYC or DC, but that's not what I wanted (well, maybe NYC, but I wasn't NYC or bust). Are you focusing only on major markets? Major firms? Only NALP firms?

Wow that is impressive. What is the size of the market you're targeting? Also, do you attach your transcript?

The markets for my interviews ranged from suburban markets (think Orange County just outside LA or New Jersey just outside NYC) to large cities not considered "primary markets" on TLS (think Boston or Philly). I did apply to about half a dozen NYC firms, all with no response.

Sometimes I attached my transcript in my initial e-mail, other times I provided it when they asked. I didn't notice a correlation in whether or not I got the interview.

It's obviously getting late in the process, but I highly recommend looking outside the conventional markets/firms. Pittsburgh, for instance, is a great and cheap city with a number of firms, but how many people look there? Also, don't rely only on NALP. That's where everyone looks, so you'll be just one in a much smaller pool. Definitely use Martindale. I also used the U.S. News firm rankings to find some highly regarded firms in these markets that may not have paid into NALP or Martindale.

Of course, whether or not you should do this hinges on whether you can consider yourself happy and successful without working for a V100 firm.

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General Tso
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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby General Tso » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:17 pm

Kohinoor wrote:
General Tso wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am also a CNN student with no offers. I did a late mass mailing of about 200 firms, and got so far one call back out of it.


This gives me reason to question the effectiveness of this method...

200 for 1 callback and a potential offer or do nothing and get nothing...


But so much about law school is prioritizing your time. I would think one's time would be better spent studying for exams or attending networking events or something. Drafting 200 tailored cover letters would take me about 200-300 hours.

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Kohinoor
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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby Kohinoor » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:28 pm

General Tso wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:
General Tso wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am also a CNN student with no offers. I did a late mass mailing of about 200 firms, and got so far one call back out of it.


This gives me reason to question the effectiveness of this method...

200 for 1 callback and a potential offer or do nothing and get nothing...


But so much about law school is prioritizing your time. I would think one's time would be better spent studying for exams or attending networking events or something. Drafting 200 tailored cover letters would take me about 200-300 hours.

A mass mail of 200-300 letter sounds more like a mail merge than true customization. Hell, you could do a customized paragraph for each firm and it would still be less than ten minutes of research per. Right macros and tools to merge everything out and autosend and you could finish it 3 days of hard but not crazy work. Also, if the purpose of law school is a job, it's weird to suggest that studying (doing well in law school) is more important than actually trying to get a job.

Aqualibrium
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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby Aqualibrium » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:38 pm

Kohinoor wrote:A mass mail of 200-300 letter sounds more like a mail merge than true customization. Hell, you could do a customized paragraph for each firm and it would still be less than ten minutes of research per. Right macros and tools to merge everything out and autosend and you could finish it 3 days of hard but not crazy work. Also, if the purpose of law school is a job, it's weird to suggest that studying (doing well in law school) is more important than actually trying to get a job.



+1 Especially since doing well in school doesn't guarantee you a job at all.

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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:02 pm

It was a mail mergre it took about 2 hours to set it up. Perhaps I should have spent two or three days doing a custom mailing, rather that just have macros for firm names, recruiter names ect. I am not sure if it would have imporved the results. Also, I mailed mostly NYC as well as some smaller markets. My only CB was in NYC.

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20160810
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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby 20160810 » Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:51 pm

It would be insane to spend 1 hour per on mass mail cover letters (excepting maybe 4-5 firms who don't do OCI at your school but where you're a REALLY strong candidate). As has been said, your odds of getting an interview are generally in the 1% range, so you should just switch up a paragraph in the cover letter to suit the city to which you're applying, find and replace the name of the firm, and call it a day.

Still, I wouldn't let that 1% figure stop you from mass mailing if you need to. After all, it only takes one offer to get a job and

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General Tso
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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby General Tso » Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:53 pm

Hard copies or emails?

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20160810
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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby 20160810 » Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:55 pm

General Tso wrote:Hard copies or emails?

I emailed exclusively. If they want to hire you, they'll do it, whether they got your resume as a .pdf or on expensive bonded paper, so save the time and money. Plus the odds are whoever gets your email/opens your envelope isn't going to be the decisionmaker who hires you, so they're going to need to make copies/pass your documents along. Electronic copies make it TONS easier for this to happen, and removing barriers on their end just makes it all the likelier that they take a better look at you.

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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:09 pm

CCN - Top 1/3. No offer. Mainly looking at NYC/Chicago/DC. Sent out cover letters in Early/Mid September but didn't get anything out of it. Smaller firms (I mean 2-10 people) will start hiring in the Winter or Spring. Hopefully can get something out of that and then do 3L OCI and mass mail the entire NALP directory this summer.

legends159
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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby legends159 » Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:21 pm

SBL wrote:
General Tso wrote:Hard copies or emails?

I emailed exclusively. If they want to hire you, they'll do it, whether they got your resume as a .pdf or on expensive bonded paper, so save the time and money. Plus the odds are whoever gets your email/opens your envelope isn't going to be the decisionmaker who hires you, so they're going to need to make copies/pass your documents along. Electronic copies make it TONS easier for this to happen, and removing barriers on their end just makes it all the likelier that they take a better look at you.


very credited. I did a few targeted emails to places that were not doing OCI and had a good ratio of callbacks to emails sent. I would send it to the hiring partner and cc to the administrative person.

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Kohinoor
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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby Kohinoor » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:CCN - Top 1/3. No offer. Mainly looking at NYC/Chicago/DC. Sent out cover letters in Early/Mid September but didn't get anything out of it. Smaller firms (I mean 2-10 people) will start hiring in the Winter or Spring. Hopefully can get something out of that and then do 3L OCI and mass mail the entire NALP directory this summer.

What do you think hurt you?

lawschoollll
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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby lawschoollll » Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:56 pm

Kohinoor wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:CCN - Top 1/3. No offer. Mainly looking at NYC/Chicago/DC. Sent out cover letters in Early/Mid September but didn't get anything out of it. Smaller firms (I mean 2-10 people) will start hiring in the Winter or Spring. Hopefully can get something out of that and then do 3L OCI and mass mail the entire NALP directory this summer.

What do you think hurt you?

Anonymous User
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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:While I know this can't help you now, it might not be your interviewing skills - it might just have been your bid list.

THIS. Of the people I know without offers, most aimed wayyy too high and in DC/CA. Now, I'm not positive what their grades were, but I know they weren't top third, so they had no business blanketing the v30 with bids. (You like Quinn DC? Get. Out.) Career Services did a horrible job of explaining that grade cut-offs weren't just some abstract idea or suggestion unless you were black (hell, a lot of people at CLS didn't even know they existed because OCS didn't provide them like they do at NYU). The story of an interviewer basically telling some girl her grades were too low and asking why she was wasting the partner's time is, like, way harsh Tai, but should serve as a warning to the class of 2013 next July. People also internalized the entire bidding process, instead of talking to friends (who maybe knew more about firms than they did?) to get help, and thought too much about which firms for whom they would want to work, as opposed to what firms might like them.

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UnTouChablE
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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby UnTouChablE » Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:CCN - Top 1/3. No offer. Mainly looking at NYC/Chicago/DC. Sent out cover letters in Early/Mid September but didn't get anything out of it. Smaller firms (I mean 2-10 people) will start hiring in the Winter or Spring. Hopefully can get something out of that and then do 3L OCI and mass mail the entire NALP directory this summer.


This is not indicative of the economy, just unlucky.

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Re: CCN Students without Offers

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:While I know this can't help you now, it might not be your interviewing skills - it might just have been your bid list.

THIS. Of the people I know without offers, most aimed wayyy too high and in DC/CA. Now, I'm not positive what their grades were, but I know they weren't top third, so they had no business blanketing the v30 with bids. (You like Quinn DC? Get. Out.) Career Services did a horrible job of explaining that grade cut-offs weren't just some abstract idea or suggestion unless you were black (hell, a lot of people at CLS didn't even know they existed because OCS didn't provide them like they do at NYU). The story of an interviewer basically telling some girl her grades were too low and asking why she was wasting the partner's time is, like, way harsh Tai, but should serve as a warning to the class of 2013 next July. People also internalized the entire bidding process, instead of talking to friends (who maybe knew more about firms than they did?) to get help, and thought too much about which firms for whom they would want to work, as opposed to what firms might like them.


It wasn't just DC/LA, I know people who struck out, even with strong ties, in almost every market (with maybe the exception of TX). OCS DID NOT warn people that most of the callbacks in each secondary market will go to the same group of high-grade people. They also did a horrible job structuring people's bid lists to avoid bidding highly on firms that were going to become available during add/drop anyway.

For 1Ls who will inevitably thinking about bidding on Chi/NY or your secondary market- the firms from your home market will take back a small number of people. When you go to OCI, you'll see the same people on the list for that market. Most likely, the few people in that group with the highest grades will get all the callbacks. Since the firms have local schools to get most of their class from, they don't care that much about getting a CCN student to bother to yield protect. In the end, those students will all the callbacks will decline most of them and go to a DC or NY firm.




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