CCN Students without Offers Forum

[Anonymous User]

So you want to have less information rather than more? You'd be very happy at Columbia.

I would think the best strategy would be to collect as much information as possible and, with a healthy dose of skepticism, discount the value of the information for the reasons you listed above. It may not be perfect after scrutinizing the data for possible diversity hires, etc., but it's better than nothing--especially if you learn to appreciate exactly what it tells you.

UVA provides lowest, median, and highest. It also provides the total number offered, so you can surmise whether a single outlier is bringing the median down just a little bit. It also provides multi-year data, so you can see how firms have changed their hiring practices from before to after the recession.

I am at Columbia.

I don't think I'd ever advocate providing less data, more I wanted to make the point that people seem to think if they had more data they would have been able to bid siginificantly better, which I don't think is the case.

Edit: I'll add that if someone with median grades still wants to bid on V10 firms for whatever reason, they are walking into it. But I doubt less than 5% of the class is that dumb.

Columbia's data, while not perfect and not as good as UVA's (it seems). Allows you to make pretty decent judgments, at least about the firms that tend to take more than a few Columbia students year in and year out. That said, the overaggressiveness with which some people bid was crazy. It confounds me that more than half the class bid on GDC and Cleary last year despite the fact that the data clearly shows they almost never take someone who is not Stone. And this year it was very surprising to see who was interviewing at S&C, Wachtell, Cravath, etc.

I guess my point is there's a general tendency to see the stats, see that a firm took two non-stones, and think "that could be me," when really the way to think about it is that 2 non-stones out of the 100 who screened got offers.

Remember, last year's class did not have the benefit of a year of ITE data, even the little bit of data we get. Try looking at the 2008 numbers to see why they thought those firms were still a decent choice. People bid much more conservatively this year (by vault rank, although not necessarily in market choice).

[Anonymous User]

I think that OCS was a bit sanguine about median+ students (3.35-3.4) -- i.e., just missed Stone -- particularly in DC and Cali. Anecdotally, it seems that most of my friends in that range ended up in V35-50 in NY. People in this range who bid entirely DC or Cali could have easily gotten nothing. Given that they did very well, but just missed an arbitrary cut-off for likely arbitrary reasons (i.e., the random exam grading) I can see why they'd be irritated about the transfer issue and the school in general.

[Anonymous User]

I love people complaining about transfers at their schools.

In and of itself this is a faulty argument for what should be appararent reasons. Schools like Columbia are trying to attract the best students for their law schools, complaining that transfers did better than you in OCI proves that they are doing just that (at least firms are viewing them that way).

Moreover, I transferred from a Tier 2 into a T5. I got a biglaw offer, and I think I was able to by not caring about my peers and focusing on how to do best during OCI. But hey, if you look for an excuse you'll find one. It's the transfers....

[Anonymous User]

I love people complaining about transfers at their schools.

In and of itself this is a faulty argument for what should be appararent reasons. Schools like Columbia are trying to attract the best students for their law schools, complaining that transfers did better than you in OCI proves that they are doing just that (at least firms are viewing them that way).

Moreover, I transferred from a Tier 2 into a T5. I got a biglaw offer, and I think I was able to by not caring about my peers and focusing on how to do best during OCI. But hey, if you look for an excuse you'll find one. It's the transfers....

reading comp fail.

[Anonymous User]

So they sugarcoat everything, with Shizer-flavored, 98% sweet sugar.

mmmm tastes like tax

[UnTouChablE]

I guess we all agree that there is a lack of data. Which school has the best OCS office?

[Renzo]

Cmonson, work yo ass off and get good grades (easy)

Fair warning: if you end up below top 1/3, I'm going to stuff this post down your throat until you choke.

[UnTouChablE]

Cmonson, work yo ass off and get good grades (easy)

Fair warning: if you end up below top 1/3, I'm going to stuff this post down your throat until you choke.[/quote]

hhahahhaahha, I talk like this all the time and more than once I've had to eat my words, am no stranger to the prospect.

Lol, that said I am proven right more times than not. Don't forget you said this, hahahhahhaaha.

My class is composed of some unbelievably people that have already proven themselves, so it's not like everything else. I'll give that one.

[Aqualibrium]

Cmonson, work yo ass off and get good grades (easy)

Fair warning: if you end up below top 1/3, I'm going to stuff this post down your throat until you choke.

hhahahhaahha, I talk like this all the time and more than once I've had to eat my words, am no stranger to the prospect.

Lol, that said I am proven right more times than not. Don't forget you said this, hahahhahhaaha.

My class is composed of some unbelievably people that have already proven themselves, so it's not like everything else. I'll give that one.

Will you come back and acknowledge that you are below top 1/3 though?

[UnTouChablE]

Cmonson, work yo ass off and get good grades (easy)

Fair warning: if you end up below top 1/3, I'm going to stuff this post down your throat until you choke.

hhahahhaahha, I talk like this all the time and more than once I've had to eat my words, am no stranger to the prospect.

Lol, that said I am proven right more times than not. Don't forget you said this, hahahhahhaaha.

My class is composed of some unbelievably people that have already proven themselves, so it's not like everything else. I'll give that one.

Will you come back and acknowledge that you are below top 1/3 though?

Yea manye, why not? Then I can join the chorus and bitch about our OCS lady (although she seems perfectly nice), LOL.
I hope these "How be do well in Law School guides" on TLS are not dead wrong, or am screwed cause that is my whole strategy lol.

If studying for the exam is wrong then I have no idea how to game this particular law school system. The system finally beat me, I'll acknowledge that if it happens (at least I hope I can).

[Rand M.]

I love how often this thread forgets and remembers what it is here for.

[Anonymous User]

What firms and markets are CCNers without offers looking at now?

[Anonymous User]

I love people complaining about transfers at their schools.

In and of itself this is a faulty argument for what should be appararent reasons. Schools like Columbia are trying to attract the best students for their law schools, complaining that transfers did better than you in OCI proves that they are doing just that (at least firms are viewing them that way).

Moreover, I transferred from a Tier 2 into a T5. I got a biglaw offer, and I think I was able to by not caring about my peers and focusing on how to do best during OCI. But hey, if you look for an excuse you'll find one. It's the transfers....

Yea... so like, your post betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of the thing people are complaining about. Congrats on killing it at Hofstra, though.

[Anonymous User]

I think that OCS was a bit sanguine about median+ students (3.35-3.4) -- i.e., just missed Stone -- particularly in DC and Cali. Anecdotally, it seems that most of my friends in that range ended up in V35-50 in NY. People in this range who bid entirely DC or Cali could have easily gotten nothing. Given that they did very well, but just missed an arbitrary cut-off for likely arbitrary reasons (i.e., the random exam grading) I can see why they'd be irritated about the transfer issue and the school in general.

This is the pretty much spot-on.

[dcgbm]

i read the first couple of pages and just wanted to confirm something with yall (i'm a clueless 0L hoping for CCN, more like BMVP numbers):

No matter how depressing this thread looks, it's safe to say dudes at BMVP with the same numbers (rank, whatever) are in worse shape than you guys, and DNCG is worse off than them, and non t-14 are worse off then them... right?

[Anonymous User]

i read the first couple of pages and just wanted to confirm something with yall (i'm a clueless 0L hoping for CCN, more like BMVP numbers):

No matter how depressing this thread looks, it's safe to say dudes at BMVP with the same numbers (rank, whatever) are in worse shape than you guys, and DNCG is worse off than them, and non t-14 are worse off then them... right?

This is correct, for NYC/CHI/DC at least, all else being equal.

And just remember, this is the no offers thread. Probably 75% of CCN this year got one offer from OCI. To really screw it up, you have to have the perfect storm, like me (median grades, no WE, average interviewing skills, mostly bidding secondary market with my resume heavily edited to look that way). Even I snagged 4 cbs.

[Anonymous User]

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[Anonymous User]

Transfer. CCN. No offered at OCI. Same story w/ mass mailings until today. Offer at V5. Biglaw is still hiring. don't give up.

NY?

[Anonymous User]

Transfer. CCN. No offered at OCI. Same story w/ mass mailings until today. Offer at V5. Biglaw is still hiring. don't give up.

NY?

Cravath? Everyone knows they are still looking for people.

[Anonymous User]

.

[quakeroats]

i read the first couple of pages and just wanted to confirm something with yall (i'm a clueless 0L hoping for CCN, more like BMVP numbers):

No matter how depressing this thread looks, it's safe to say dudes at BMVP with the same numbers (rank, whatever) are in worse shape than you guys, and DNCG is worse off than them, and non t-14 are worse off then them... right?

Wrong.

[Anonymous User]

Transfer. CCN. No offered at OCI. Same story w/ mass mailings until today. Offer at V5. Biglaw is still hiring. don't give up.

NY?

Cravath? Everyone knows they are still looking for people.

.

[Anonymous User]

Transfer. CCN. No offered at OCI. Same story w/ mass mailings until today. Offer at V5. Biglaw is still hiring. don't give up.

NY?

Cravath? Everyone knows they are still looking for people.

why? (as I immediately send my resume)

Don't know why, just that several friends have interviewed with them in the past 2 weeks. Make sure you have the #'s for them though.

[Anonymous User]

Transfer. CCN. No offered at OCI. Same story w/ mass mailings until today. Offer at V5. Biglaw is still hiring. don't give up.

NY?

Cravath? Everyone knows they are still looking for people.

why? (as I immediately send my resume)

... CRAVATH is still looking for people?

I'd be curious to hear where the poster got this offer, and what his or her grades are like. (Also: extreme congratulations are in order.) I have good-but-not-great grades. I'm pretty sure Cravath is not interested: aren't they total white shoe toolbags?

But hey, this post has inspired me to do a quick mailing of bigshot Vault firms, whereas I'd been mostly focused on midlaw as my last best hope for peace and employment. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPPySgzHUtY)

[Anonymous User]

Above posters: Are you or friends getting these cbs through OCS referrals?