Non-Vault Firms Start Hiring Later?

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Re: Non-Vault Firms Start Hiring Later?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:11 pm

Bankhead wrote:If either of those people did that to I'd smack them upside the head. You had a great chance going in, and no one should have told you to the contrary, it just didn't work out unfortunately. I know people in the bottom half with offers.


Yeah. I can only hope that the same things that gave me a great chance for success at OCI and early mass-mailing will help me out as I go forward. With luck, people at these magical small-but-good firms will realize that ITE many a qualified candidate has slipped from BigLaw's claws as the horrible beast shoveled students into its gaping maw.

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Re: Non-Vault Firms Start Hiring Later?

Postby OperaSoprano » Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Bankhead wrote:If either of those people did that to I'd smack them upside the head. You had a great chance going in, and no one should have told you to the contrary, it just didn't work out unfortunately. I know people in the bottom half with offers.


Yeah. I can only hope that the same things that gave me a great chance for success at OCI and early mass-mailing will help me out as I go forward. With luck, people at these magical small-but-good firms will realize that ITE many a qualified candidate has slipped from BigLaw's claws as the horrible beast shoveled students into its gaping maw.


QF brilliant imagery! I've been talking to small firm attorneys, and even here in NYC, they seem much happier than their biglaw counterparts...

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Re: Non-Vault Firms Start Hiring Later?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:37 pm

SBL wrote:If a 100+-person firm wasn't listed on NALP, I'd be suspicious, but when it comes to firms in the 20-to-60-attorney-or-so range, there doesn't seem to be any obvious difference in quality between those which are listed on NALP and those which are not. (FWIW, I will be working for a firm in that size range I really like that is not listed on NALP. It pays well, employs lots of T14 grads, and does good work - no ambulance chasing or insurance defense).

For a better picture of what's really out there, I'd suggest hitting up martindale.com.


Just to clarify: you mean that some of these good small-ish firms are still hiring, or will hire in the spring? Or do they stop hiring when BigLaw does?

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Non-Vault Firms Start Hiring Later?

Postby OperaSoprano » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:01 pm

I have hope to offer people still looking. I just talked to my friend, a fifth year associate at a small boutique (under ten attorneys, but national clients, including some in my industry), and she said her friends at similar firms will be looking to hire in early spring. This is probably the perfect type of summer position for me, and I'm not thrilled about being in limbo for so long, but she absolutely loves her work, and if I could find a firm like that, well, a few months additional waiting is really no harm, no foul. She says these firms are not obsessed with pedigree, and it's much more about fit, personality, and having someone to recommend you.

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Re: Non-Vault Firms Start Hiring Later?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:14 pm

OperaSoprano wrote:I have hope to offer people still looking. I just talked to my friend, a fifth year associate at a small boutique (under ten attorneys, but national clients, including some in my industry), and she said her friends at similar firms will be looking to hire in early spring. This is probably the perfect type of summer position for me, and I'm not thrilled about being in limbo for so long, but she absolutely loves her work, and if I could find a firm like that, well, a few months additional waiting is really no harm, no foul. She says these firms are not obsessed with pedigree, and it's much more about fit, personality, and having someone to recommend you.


Hooray for hope!

My only two reservations:

(1) Do these firms pay anything like BigLaw?
(2) If I can't use my pedigree to get in, I might have to actually be qualified for the position.

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Re: Non-Vault Firms Start Hiring Later?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:33 pm

(2) If I can't use my pedigree to get in, I might have to actually be qualified for the position.





Top 5%, LR, offer-less, and this is my biggest fear

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Re: Non-Vault Firms Start Hiring Later?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
(2) If I can't use my pedigree to get in, I might have to actually be qualified for the position.





Top 5%, LR, offer-less, and this is my biggest fear


Please, that's much more like a "qualification" than mere pedigree. By "pedigree" I meant my good college and T14 law school. I'm not at all convinced that top third at a T14 is as impressive as top 5% elsewhere, once we're no longer talking about prestige-obsessed biglaw attorneys.

As an aside, I'd like to salute OperaSoprano, magical Princess of Fordham. S/he is sparkly and full of hope. I'm willing to accept a little delusion as to my prospects if it comes with a measure of hope. The former might be problematic in some ways, but without the latter, I'd just curl up in the corner and cry.

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Re: Non-Vault Firms Start Hiring Later?

Postby OperaSoprano » Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
(2) If I can't use my pedigree to get in, I might have to actually be qualified for the position.





Top 5%, LR, offer-less, and this is my biggest fear


Please, that's much more like a "qualification" than mere pedigree. By "pedigree" I meant my good college and T14 law school. I'm not at all convinced that top third at a T14 is as impressive as top 5% elsewhere, once we're no longer talking about prestige-obsessed biglaw attorneys.

As an aside, I'd like to salute OperaSoprano, magical Princess of Fordham. S/he is sparkly and full of hope. I'm willing to accept a little delusion as to my prospects if it comes with a measure of hope. The former might be problematic in some ways, but without the latter, I'd just curl up in the corner and cry.


Haha, thanks. I once criticized Voltaire's Candide on similar grounds. (Make fun of Candide's optimism all you like, but he would have given up long before the end of the story without Pangloss's teachings providing momentum. Yes, he then had to be disillusioned, but illusion has utility if it keeps us moving. And of course, sometimes what we think is impossible just winds up coming through.)

To address the other questions, no, small boutiques do not pay $160k to start, but you do get substantive work experience right away. My friend was bringing in clients as a first year associate and taking 30% of the proceeds therein, which blew me away. She said I could do the same.

I have not been resume spamming every legal employer, however. If OCI taught me anything, it's that I really care a lot about fit, and I'll work in another field long before taking a legal job that isn't right for me. I am in this for the life experience and so far I have no regrets. I have met some phenomenal people, and in the short term, if I can't go in house, I will happily go to a small firm or a nonprofit like the one where I spent last summer.

Wishing luck to everyone in this thread! Off to find food and study.

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Re: Non-Vault Firms Start Hiring Later?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:57 am

Please, that's much more like a "qualification" than mere pedigree. By "pedigree" I meant my good college and T14 law school. I'm not at all convinced that top third at a T14 is as impressive as top 5% elsewhere, once we're no longer talking about prestige-obsessed biglaw attorneys.



That's true, I guess what I meant is that I have a pretty impressive resume that got me plenty of screeners and a reasonable amount of call backs, but I couldn't turn any of it into an offer so I'm obviously not great at interviewing. That makes me not exceedingly confident about my chances of landing employment at a firm that emphasizes the interview over the resume.

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Re: Non-Vault Firms Start Hiring Later?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:16 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Please, that's much more like a "qualification" than mere pedigree. By "pedigree" I meant my good college and T14 law school. I'm not at all convinced that top third at a T14 is as impressive as top 5% elsewhere, once we're no longer talking about prestige-obsessed biglaw attorneys.



That's true, I guess what I meant is that I have a pretty impressive resume that got me plenty of screeners and a reasonable amount of call backs, but I couldn't turn any of it into an offer so I'm obviously not great at interviewing. That makes me not exceedingly confident about my chances of landing employment at a firm that emphasizes the interview over the resume.


As near as I can tell, firms just want to like chat with you and see if they like you. (I had thought it was more them asking questions to figure out how qualified you really are, and I think that's part of what got me at OCI.)




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