How much do biglaw lawyers make?

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Noval
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Re: How much do biglaw lawyers make?

Postby Noval » Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:31 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
Noval wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:
Noval wrote:Guys, remember that the average American makes around 40-50k/year tops...

Wether you are making 120k or 500k, you will STILL make more than 95% of Americans out there.

If you find making 200k not "a lot" then you should review your wealth concepts...

That said, if you want to become a milionnaire or the next mark zuckenberg, then Law may be a bad idea UNLESS you get a free ride like UC Irvine's inaugural class did.
Investment Banking might be a safer bet for bigger money and BigLaw hours but you can still join it as a Corporate Lawyer...

For those who complain about the BigLaw hours, shut the fuck up, what do you expect from making a shit ton of money ?
A Doctor makes a lot but has bigger debts, longer studies and work a lot more, are they complaining like slutty taiwanese prostitutes that didn't get a tip after sucking a British Businessman's dick ? NO.

High salary = High expectations, if you can't fit that requirement into your thick skulls, then don't pursue BigLaw.


wow, that gem is "refreshingly" offensive


Worst of all, i was honest.


To be fair, Doctors do complain. It's just that they don't get fired.


The main thing is, Medicine doesn't worth it anymore as salaries are going downfall and working hours going up.
Obama fucked up the healthcare system even more and wants to see Doctors get treated like shit just like the burger guy in McDs.

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Jack Smirks
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Re: How much do biglaw lawyers make?

Postby Jack Smirks » Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:33 pm

Noval wrote: if you can't fit that requirement into your thick skulls

QF stealing that from Teen Wolf

pocket herc
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Re: How much do biglaw lawyers make?

Postby pocket herc » Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:38 pm

The main thing is, Medicine doesn't worth it anymore as salaries are going downfall and working hours going up.
Obama fucked up the healthcare system even more and wants to see Doctors get treated like shit just like the burger guy in McDs.


haha, are you drunk or retarded?

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ResolutePear
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Re: How much do biglaw lawyers make?

Postby ResolutePear » Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:53 pm

Noval wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
Noval wrote:
Worst of all, i was honest.


To be fair, Doctors do complain. It's just that they don't get fired.


The main thing is, Medicine doesn't worth it anymore as salaries are going downfall and working hours going up.
Obama fucked up the healthcare system even more and wants to see Doctors get treated like shit just like the burger guy in McDs.


No matter what anybody does to the healthcare system, sans Communist Cuba's system:
Bad doctors make good money. Bad lawyers make bad money.
Good doctors make excellent money. Good lawyers make INSANE money.

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Borhas
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Re: How much do biglaw lawyers make?

Postby Borhas » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:48 am

ruski wrote:
Rotor wrote:
For me, I'll be more than thrilled to have the condo & A6 and invites to the yacht from the fabulously wealthy client.


really? you'll be more than thrilled to be 50 years old taking orders from a client who is barely more than half your age and 10x more successful and wealther.


everyone takes orders

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Bosque
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Re: How much do biglaw lawyers make?

Postby Bosque » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:26 am

Borhas wrote:
ruski wrote:
Rotor wrote:
For me, I'll be more than thrilled to have the condo & A6 and invites to the yacht from the fabulously wealthy client.


really? you'll be more than thrilled to be 50 years old taking orders from a client who is barely more than half your age and 10x more successful and wealther.


everyone takes orders


And it depends on how much that guy is paying me.

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Patriot1208
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Re: How much do biglaw lawyers make?

Postby Patriot1208 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:31 am

Bosque wrote:
Borhas wrote:
ruski wrote:
Rotor wrote:
For me, I'll be more than thrilled to have the condo & A6 and invites to the yacht from the fabulously wealthy client.


really? you'll be more than thrilled to be 50 years old taking orders from a client who is barely more than half your age and 10x more successful and wealther.


everyone takes orders


And it depends on how much that guy is paying me.


Ya, and since 1million is the "top of the middle class" that definitely isn't enough to take orders.

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Bosque
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Re: How much do biglaw lawyers make?

Postby Bosque » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:44 am

I cannot be the only one who does not aspire to be anything more than "Top of the Middle Class" rich. So long as me and my eventual family are living comfortably, I don't care that will never be able to buy that second vacation home, or that giant yacht, or a personal chef. I wouldn't know what to do with any of those things even if I got them (besides, I love cooking too much to let someone else always do it for me).

Really, the only level of rich I aspire to is the kind where if you want popcorn at the movies, you don't think about the price. You just get it. Once I am there, I am happy.

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JazzOne
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Re: How much do biglaw lawyers make?

Postby JazzOne » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:50 am

Bosque wrote:I cannot be the only one who does not aspire to be anything more than "Top of the Middle Class" rich. So long as me and my eventual family are living comfortably, I don't care that will never be able to buy that second vacation home, or that giant yacht, or a personal chef. I wouldn't know what to do with any of those things even if I got them (besides, I love cooking too much to let someone else always do it for me).

Really, the only level of rich I aspire to is the kind where if you want popcorn at the movies, you don't think about the price. You just get it. Once I am there, I am happy.

I don't need biglaw salary to be happy, so my plan is to live on half my salary and put away as much cash as possible. A few years down the road, if I really enjoy the work, I might splurge on an R8 or something similar, but if I hate the work, I'm out of there as soon as I have enough money socked away to do something else. I actually think I will enjoy it though. I am really excited about the firm I'm going to.

Where are you going Bosque? You will do IP in DC? That's pretty damn cool. I was gunning for IP, but I didn't have much luck with the IP boutiques.
Last edited by JazzOne on Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Patriot1208
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Re: How much do biglaw lawyers make?

Postby Patriot1208 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:58 am

Bosque wrote:I cannot be the only one who does not aspire to be anything more than "Top of the Middle Class" rich. So long as me and my eventual family are living comfortably, I don't care that will never be able to buy that second vacation home, or that giant yacht, or a personal chef. I wouldn't know what to do with any of those things even if I got them (besides, I love cooking too much to let someone else always do it for me).

Really, the only level of rich I aspire to is the kind where if you want popcorn at the movies, you don't think about the price. You just get it. Once I am there, I am happy.


I definitely aspire to more then that. But I also am not stupid enough to say that 1mil per year is middle class.

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Re: How much do biglaw lawyers make?

Postby turkeysub » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:04 pm


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Bosque
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Re: How much do biglaw lawyers make?

Postby Bosque » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:08 pm

JazzOne wrote:
Bosque wrote:I cannot be the only one who does not aspire to be anything more than "Top of the Middle Class" rich. So long as me and my eventual family are living comfortably, I don't care that will never be able to buy that second vacation home, or that giant yacht, or a personal chef. I wouldn't know what to do with any of those things even if I got them (besides, I love cooking too much to let someone else always do it for me).

Really, the only level of rich I aspire to is the kind where if you want popcorn at the movies, you don't think about the price. You just get it. Once I am there, I am happy.

I don't need biglaw salary to be happy, so my plan is to live on half my salary and put away as much cash as possible. A few years down the road, if I really enjoy the work, I might splurge on an R8 or something similar, but if I hate the work, I'm out of there as soon as I have enough to money socked away to do something else. I actually think I will enjoy it though. I am really excited about the firm I'm going to.

Where are you going Bosque? You will do IP in DC? That's pretty damn cool. I was gunning for IP, but I didn't have much luck with the IP boutiques.


Yup, IP in DC. Finally made a decision as to which one on Friday. It was a really tough choice.

I had pretty much the opposite experience as you. I only had luck at IP Boutiques.

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JazzOne
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Re: How much do biglaw lawyers make?

Postby JazzOne » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:16 pm

Bosque wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
Bosque wrote:I cannot be the only one who does not aspire to be anything more than "Top of the Middle Class" rich. So long as me and my eventual family are living comfortably, I don't care that will never be able to buy that second vacation home, or that giant yacht, or a personal chef. I wouldn't know what to do with any of those things even if I got them (besides, I love cooking too much to let someone else always do it for me).

Really, the only level of rich I aspire to is the kind where if you want popcorn at the movies, you don't think about the price. You just get it. Once I am there, I am happy.

I don't need biglaw salary to be happy, so my plan is to live on half my salary and put away as much cash as possible. A few years down the road, if I really enjoy the work, I might splurge on an R8 or something similar, but if I hate the work, I'm out of there as soon as I have enough to money socked away to do something else. I actually think I will enjoy it though. I am really excited about the firm I'm going to.

Where are you going Bosque? You will do IP in DC? That's pretty damn cool. I was gunning for IP, but I didn't have much luck with the IP boutiques.


Yup, IP in DC. Finally made a decision as to which one on Friday. It was a really tough choice.

I had pretty much the opposite experience as you. I only had luck at IP Boutiques.

lol

I only had luck at one firm, so that's that. However, if I could have hand-picked one firm to get lucky with, it would have been the one that offered me the SA position, so the final result was perfect.

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Re: How much do biglaw lawyers make?

Postby Bosque » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:30 pm

JazzOne wrote:
Bosque wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
Bosque wrote:I cannot be the only one who does not aspire to be anything more than "Top of the Middle Class" rich. So long as me and my eventual family are living comfortably, I don't care that will never be able to buy that second vacation home, or that giant yacht, or a personal chef. I wouldn't know what to do with any of those things even if I got them (besides, I love cooking too much to let someone else always do it for me).

Really, the only level of rich I aspire to is the kind where if you want popcorn at the movies, you don't think about the price. You just get it. Once I am there, I am happy.

I don't need biglaw salary to be happy, so my plan is to live on half my salary and put away as much cash as possible. A few years down the road, if I really enjoy the work, I might splurge on an R8 or something similar, but if I hate the work, I'm out of there as soon as I have enough to money socked away to do something else. I actually think I will enjoy it though. I am really excited about the firm I'm going to.

Where are you going Bosque? You will do IP in DC? That's pretty damn cool. I was gunning for IP, but I didn't have much luck with the IP boutiques.


Yup, IP in DC. Finally made a decision as to which one on Friday. It was a really tough choice.

I had pretty much the opposite experience as you. I only had luck at IP Boutiques.

lol

I only had luck at one firm, so that's that. However, if I could have hand-picked one firm to get lucky with, it would have been the one that offered me the SA position, so the final result was perfect.


Exactly. It only takes one. And it is funny how often that "one" is actually people's top choice. I think it is because they are usually a lot more enthusiastic about it than other firms.

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Re: How much do biglaw lawyers make?

Postby JazzOne » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:41 pm

Bosque wrote:Exactly. It only takes one. And it is funny how often that "one" is actually people's top choice. I think it is because they are usually a lot more enthusiastic about it than other firms.

I was down to my final call-back. I had interviewed the weekend before at a different firm, and I received the rejection letter as I was walking out of the house on my way to the airport for the last call-back. Talk about a confidence killer!

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Re: How much do biglaw lawyers make?

Postby Ahhhnold » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:57 pm

JazzOne wrote:
Bosque wrote:Exactly. It only takes one. And it is funny how often that "one" is actually people's top choice. I think it is because they are usually a lot more enthusiastic about it than other firms.

I was down to my final call-back. I had interviewed the weekend before at a different firm, and I received the rejection letter as I was walking out of the house on my way to the airport for the last call-back. Talk about a confidence killer!


Similar story except I got a rejection letter the morning after the callback. Had I stayed at my place the night b4 the callback, I would have received the ego-crushing letter (was sitting in my mailbox) and probably blown my callback, and thus my only offer.

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Re: How much do biglaw lawyers make?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:10 pm

Ahhhnold wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
Bosque wrote:Exactly. It only takes one. And it is funny how often that "one" is actually people's top choice. I think it is because they are usually a lot more enthusiastic about it than other firms.

I was down to my final call-back. I had interviewed the weekend before at a different firm, and I received the rejection letter as I was walking out of the house on my way to the airport for the last call-back. Talk about a confidence killer!


Similar story except I got a rejection letter the morning after the callback. Had I stayed at my place the night b4 the callback, I would have received the ego-crushing letter (was sitting in my mailbox) and probably blown my callback, and thus my only offer.


I will say though, having it happen the other way around is much worse for your chances at the firm you are on the call back for. Got the call with my offer from a firm while I was traveling from the airport to another firm for a call back. It just completely killed that trip, because I was thinking about the offer firm the whole time. The callback firm rejected me by mail within a few days of me getting back, which means they probably mailed the letter the day after my visit. Harsh.

I know receiving an offer is always a good thing, but if I had wanted the call back firm I can see how it might have screwed thing up for me. However, luckily in this instance I probably would never have gone on the call back if I already had the offer, so I don't really care.

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Re: How much do biglaw lawyers make?

Postby Bosque » Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Ahhhnold wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
Bosque wrote:Exactly. It only takes one. And it is funny how often that "one" is actually people's top choice. I think it is because they are usually a lot more enthusiastic about it than other firms.

I was down to my final call-back. I had interviewed the weekend before at a different firm, and I received the rejection letter as I was walking out of the house on my way to the airport for the last call-back. Talk about a confidence killer!


Similar story except I got a rejection letter the morning after the callback. Had I stayed at my place the night b4 the callback, I would have received the ego-crushing letter (was sitting in my mailbox) and probably blown my callback, and thus my only offer.


I will say though, having it happen the other way around is much worse for your chances at the firm you are on the call back for. Got the call with my offer from a firm while I was traveling from the airport to another firm for a call back. It just completely killed that trip, because I was thinking about the offer firm the whole time. The callback firm rejected me by mail within a few days of me getting back, which means they probably mailed the letter the day after my visit. Harsh.

I know receiving an offer is always a good thing, but if I had wanted the call back firm I can see how it might have screwed thing up for me. However, luckily in this instance I probably would never have gone on the call back if I already had the offer, so I don't really care.


Damn, that was me. Sorry, didn't mean to hit anonymous.

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Re: How much do biglaw lawyers make?

Postby JazzOne » Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:17 pm

Bosque wrote:I will say though, having it happen the other way around is much worse for your chances at the firm you are on the call back for. Got the call with my offer from a firm while I was traveling from the airport to another firm for a call back. It just completely killed that trip, because I was thinking about the offer firm the whole time. The callback firm rejected me by mail within a few days of me getting back, which means they probably mailed the letter the day after my visit. Harsh.

I know receiving an offer is always a good thing, but if I had wanted the call back firm I can see how it might have screwed thing up for me. However, luckily in this instance I probably would never have gone on the call back if I already had the offer, so I don't really care.

Oh you're definitely correct about that. After I got the rejection letter, I got on the flight, checked into the hotel, and logged onto JDU. I read a particularly scathing post on JDU, and I realized that my whole approach to interviewing had been completely wrong. I stayed up half the night at the hotel researching the firm, reading about interviewing skills, and jotting down answers to possible questions. I also wrote out questions for each of my interviewers. I went into that interview with a particular hunger I haven't experienced in quite some time.

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Re: How much do biglaw lawyers make?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:48 pm

JazzOne wrote:
Bosque wrote:I will say though, having it happen the other way around is much worse for your chances at the firm you are on the call back for. Got the call with my offer from a firm while I was traveling from the airport to another firm for a call back. It just completely killed that trip, because I was thinking about the offer firm the whole time. The callback firm rejected me by mail within a few days of me getting back, which means they probably mailed the letter the day after my visit. Harsh.

I know receiving an offer is always a good thing, but if I had wanted the call back firm I can see how it might have screwed thing up for me. However, luckily in this instance I probably would never have gone on the call back if I already had the offer, so I don't really care.

Oh you're definitely correct about that. After I got the rejection letter, I got on the flight, checked into the hotel, and logged onto JDU. I read a particularly scathing post on JDU, and I realized that my whole approach to interviewing had been completely wrong. I stayed up half the night at the hotel researching the firm, reading about interviewing skills, and jotting down answers to possible questions. I also wrote out questions for each of my interviewers. I went into that interview with a particular hunger I haven't experienced in quite some time.


Mind sharing your realizations about interviewing? I'm having serious job-hunt troubles, and I'm wondering if part of it is my interviewing. The main thing I've been trying to fix is being more conversational and chatty rather than "persuasive" in a direct way. I.e. short, conversational responses rather than giving a quick pitch about how X Y Z in my resume show that I can indeed (do whatever they asked about).

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Re: How much do biglaw lawyers make?

Postby JazzOne » Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
Bosque wrote:I will say though, having it happen the other way around is much worse for your chances at the firm you are on the call back for. Got the call with my offer from a firm while I was traveling from the airport to another firm for a call back. It just completely killed that trip, because I was thinking about the offer firm the whole time. The callback firm rejected me by mail within a few days of me getting back, which means they probably mailed the letter the day after my visit. Harsh.

I know receiving an offer is always a good thing, but if I had wanted the call back firm I can see how it might have screwed thing up for me. However, luckily in this instance I probably would never have gone on the call back if I already had the offer, so I don't really care.

Oh you're definitely correct about that. After I got the rejection letter, I got on the flight, checked into the hotel, and logged onto JDU. I read a particularly scathing post on JDU, and I realized that my whole approach to interviewing had been completely wrong. I stayed up half the night at the hotel researching the firm, reading about interviewing skills, and jotting down answers to possible questions. I also wrote out questions for each of my interviewers. I went into that interview with a particular hunger I haven't experienced in quite some time.


Mind sharing your realizations about interviewing? I'm having serious job-hunt troubles, and I'm wondering if part of it is my interviewing. The main thing I've been trying to fix is being more conversational and chatty rather than "persuasive" in a direct way. I.e. short, conversational responses rather than giving a quick pitch about how X Y Z in my resume show that I can indeed (do whatever they asked about).

I don't mind sharing at all. I will post more about it a little later, but I'm having a beer and watching football, so I'll just give you one quick tip. First, I am pretty socially awkward. I am very sharp, and I'm a hard worker, but that's not enough when you're trying to enter such a client-driven profession.

Someone on JDU gave me the following advice. Basically, he said that there are two types of people in this world: listeners and readers. Listeners are good at small talk, chatting, reading people's emotions, and joking around. Readers are less capable of improvising. So, the advice was to buy a book of interview questions and jot down answers to them. I treated it kind of like test prep. I typed up answers to the questions, and I edited them to cast myself favorably in response to any question. Even if those exact questions were never posed to me, the value was more about thinking over my resume and framing my story in a way that appeals to the needs of the firm. Finally, I looked up all my interviewers and jotted down questions I would like to ask them. I avoided awkward silences by glancing down and bringing up something in that attorney's bio. Honestly, I got some good advice about my law review note just by asking a random question about an attorney's publication. He seemed kind of nostalgic talking about his law review note, and he thanked me for "doing my homework" before coming to the interview.

If you're more of a "listener," then this advice may not apply to you. However, I found it really helpful to plan in advance what I was going to do under some potentially stressful circumstances, and it helped me maneuver without improvising too much.

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Re: How much do biglaw lawyers make?

Postby rayiner » Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
Bosque wrote:I will say though, having it happen the other way around is much worse for your chances at the firm you are on the call back for. Got the call with my offer from a firm while I was traveling from the airport to another firm for a call back. It just completely killed that trip, because I was thinking about the offer firm the whole time. The callback firm rejected me by mail within a few days of me getting back, which means they probably mailed the letter the day after my visit. Harsh.

I know receiving an offer is always a good thing, but if I had wanted the call back firm I can see how it might have screwed thing up for me. However, luckily in this instance I probably would never have gone on the call back if I already had the offer, so I don't really care.

Oh you're definitely correct about that. After I got the rejection letter, I got on the flight, checked into the hotel, and logged onto JDU. I read a particularly scathing post on JDU, and I realized that my whole approach to interviewing had been completely wrong. I stayed up half the night at the hotel researching the firm, reading about interviewing skills, and jotting down answers to possible questions. I also wrote out questions for each of my interviewers. I went into that interview with a particular hunger I haven't experienced in quite some time.


Mind sharing your realizations about interviewing? I'm having serious job-hunt troubles, and I'm wondering if part of it is my interviewing. The main thing I've been trying to fix is being more conversational and chatty rather than "persuasive" in a direct way. I.e. short, conversational responses rather than giving a quick pitch about how X Y Z in my resume show that I can indeed (do whatever they asked about).


Think like a big law partner. They don't want someone who thinks he's all that and that he knows exactly what he's in for. They (think they) want someone who they can teach the ropes and who can be thrown into the deep end and learn what he needs to know quickly. When you tell them "oh I did X so I can totally do X for you" that makes them think "the hell you know about X!" Partner might buy it if you've got years of experience in X, but most likely you're playing up some relatively lame 1L summer job and the partner will see right through that and think: "uppity kid!"

Telling people "X -> Y" is pushy and off-putting. You need to paint a general picture and let them draw their own conclusions (though obviously the conclusions you want them to draw).

For example, I wanted to convey the idea that I could handle the hours/client demands of big law because of what I used to do at my previous job. I didn't say that. Instead, I'd wait for a question like: "so tell me about your work at X?" I'd respond like: "It was a great experience. It was a lot of work --- I was a point of contact for a pretty demanding customer --- so it wasn't always fun, but the customer had a great team that was awesome to work with and that I learned a lot from."

The response is a bit self-deprecating, focuses on qualities like learning from the experience of others, while still getting across the point of: "oh, he's had a demanding job before." If I had said: "I used to work 70 hour weeks at my old job, so I think I can totally handle the demands of big law!" the reaction would be more like: "so he thinks he knows what big law is like!"

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JazzOne
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Re: How much do biglaw lawyers make?

Postby JazzOne » Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:11 pm

rayiner wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
Bosque wrote:I will say though, having it happen the other way around is much worse for your chances at the firm you are on the call back for. Got the call with my offer from a firm while I was traveling from the airport to another firm for a call back. It just completely killed that trip, because I was thinking about the offer firm the whole time. The callback firm rejected me by mail within a few days of me getting back, which means they probably mailed the letter the day after my visit. Harsh.

I know receiving an offer is always a good thing, but if I had wanted the call back firm I can see how it might have screwed thing up for me. However, luckily in this instance I probably would never have gone on the call back if I already had the offer, so I don't really care.

Oh you're definitely correct about that. After I got the rejection letter, I got on the flight, checked into the hotel, and logged onto JDU. I read a particularly scathing post on JDU, and I realized that my whole approach to interviewing had been completely wrong. I stayed up half the night at the hotel researching the firm, reading about interviewing skills, and jotting down answers to possible questions. I also wrote out questions for each of my interviewers. I went into that interview with a particular hunger I haven't experienced in quite some time.


Mind sharing your realizations about interviewing? I'm having serious job-hunt troubles, and I'm wondering if part of it is my interviewing. The main thing I've been trying to fix is being more conversational and chatty rather than "persuasive" in a direct way. I.e. short, conversational responses rather than giving a quick pitch about how X Y Z in my resume show that I can indeed (do whatever they asked about).


Think like a big law partner. They don't want someone who thinks he's all that and that he knows exactly what he's in for. They (think they) want someone who they can teach the ropes and who can be thrown into the deep end and learn what he needs to know quickly. When you tell them "oh I did X so I can totally do X for you" that makes them think "the hell you know about X!" Maybe if you're an expert in X with years of experience, but otherwise the partner will just think: "uppity kid!"

Telling people "X -> Y" is pushy and off-putting. You need to paint a general picture and let them draw their own conclusions (though obviously the conclusions you want them to draw).

For example, I wanted to convey the idea that I could handle the hours/client demands of big law because of what I used to do at my previous job. I didn't say that. Instead, I'd wait for a question like: "so tell me about your work at X?" I'd respond like: "It was a great experience. It was a lot of work --- I was a point of contact for a pretty demanding customer --- so it wasn't always fun, but the customer had a great team that was awesome to work with and that I learned a lot from."

The response is a bit self-deprecating, focuses on qualities like learning from the experience of others, while still getting across the point of: "oh, he's had a demanding job before." If I had said: "I used to work 70 hour weeks at my old job, so I think I can totally handle the demands of big law!" the reaction would be more like: "so he thinks he knows what big law is like!"

Good points. And just to tie it back to my advice, this kind of response isn't something you make up on the spot. It's something you craft behind the scenes before you even show up for the interview.

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Ahhhnold
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Re: How much do biglaw lawyers make?

Postby Ahhhnold » Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:17 pm

JazzOne wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
Bosque wrote:I will say though, having it happen the other way around is much worse for your chances at the firm you are on the call back for. Got the call with my offer from a firm while I was traveling from the airport to another firm for a call back. It just completely killed that trip, because I was thinking about the offer firm the whole time. The callback firm rejected me by mail within a few days of me getting back, which means they probably mailed the letter the day after my visit. Harsh.

I know receiving an offer is always a good thing, but if I had wanted the call back firm I can see how it might have screwed thing up for me. However, luckily in this instance I probably would never have gone on the call back if I already had the offer, so I don't really care.

Oh you're definitely correct about that. After I got the rejection letter, I got on the flight, checked into the hotel, and logged onto JDU. I read a particularly scathing post on JDU, and I realized that my whole approach to interviewing had been completely wrong. I stayed up half the night at the hotel researching the firm, reading about interviewing skills, and jotting down answers to possible questions. I also wrote out questions for each of my interviewers. I went into that interview with a particular hunger I haven't experienced in quite some time.


Mind sharing your realizations about interviewing? I'm having serious job-hunt troubles, and I'm wondering if part of it is my interviewing. The main thing I've been trying to fix is being more conversational and chatty rather than "persuasive" in a direct way. I.e. short, conversational responses rather than giving a quick pitch about how X Y Z in my resume show that I can indeed (do whatever they asked about).

I don't mind sharing at all. I will post more about it a little later, but I'm having a beer and watching football, so I'll just give you one quick tip. First, I am pretty socially awkward. I am very sharp, and I'm a hard worker, but that's not enough when you're trying to enter such a client-driven profession.

Someone on JDU gave me the following advice. Basically, he said that there are two types of people in this world: listeners and readers. Listeners are good at small talk, chatting, reading people's emotions, and joking around. Readers are less capable of improvising. So, the advice was to buy a book of interview questions and jot down answers to them. I treated it kind of like test prep. I typed up answers to the questions, and I edited them to cast myself favorably in response to any question. Even if those exact questions were never posed to me, the value was more about thinking over my resume and framing my story in a way that appeals to the needs of the firm. Finally, I looked up all my interviewers and jotted down questions I would like to ask them. I avoided awkward silences by glancing down and bringing up something in that attorney's bio. Honestly, I got some good advice about my law review note just by asking a random question about an attorney's publication. He seemed kind of nostalgic talking about his law review note, and he thanked me for "doing my homework" before coming to the interview.

If you're more of a "listener," then this advice may not apply to you. However, I found it really helpful to plan in advance what I was going to do under some potentially stressful circumstances, and it helped me maneuver without improvising too much.


+1 Definitely agree. I read the Gorilla Tactics Book on interviewing. I also typed out around 70 possible interview questions/answers (in detail) just like the above poster. Then I had my gf do something like 5-10 full interviews with me (not easy to convince) to practice it to death (I even practiced using the real interviewer's name/s). The point was that when I finally got to the interview, I didn't have to think much about my responses, I could on-the-spot improvise based on the vibe I was getting from the interviewer. Completely tailor my responses. I liken it to when an athlete talks about things moving in slow motion and being "on" because they prepare so much. I actually felt more confident in the interview than I was while practicing at home.

Also, I would also ask questions as much as humanly possible. It moves the interview from an awkward process to a conversation.

Anyway, moral of the story is practice makes perfect, nothing new there. But obviously you cannot spit out answers like they're canned, you have to have a ridiculous amount of energy and enthusiasm just like you were giving them for the first time, every time.

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JazzOne
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Re: How much do biglaw lawyers make?

Postby JazzOne » Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:18 pm

Here is the post on JDU that really shook me. It was written by a poster called jeremiahwright.

Subject: Questions for victims of the purported law school scam

What the hell did you intend to do with your law degree once you got out?

In a profession that values preparation, due diligence, attention to detail, pursuit of the truth (whatever that is), trusting in your self, it is astounding that there could be so many out there that claim they had none of these virtues when they filled out their applications and signed over those student loan checks.

Really, if you failed that miserably in peeling away the layers of the law school onion, what the hell kind of law do you expect you should be practicing?

Mergers and acquisitions, complex trial work, capital murder cases? Really, what the hell are you qualified to do in the first place. I sure as hell wouldn't want you helping me prepare a cross examination of some expert if you couldn't see past the administrators over at some ttt. If you couldn't find the fraud in the law school brochures, what good would you be if you were working on a deal when CNN buys out Fox News. Same as representing some scmuck down south where they have the dna mixed up and they don't give a damn, they just want a conviction, if you trust the law school deans, you gonna trust the state police crime lab's report or you gonna maybe examine every detail of it and get the guy off.

I keep hearing this shit, I got scammed blah blah blah and I can't help but think what kind of lawyer you would make if you were actually given a case or a deal to see through to the end.


I read that, and I thought to myself, "why the hell would anyone trust me with a multi-million dollar case when I don't look, act, or think like a professional attorney?" You have to inspire confidence. You have to be a salesman. You have to be a people person whether you like it or not. You have to project competence, and you have to deliver.
Last edited by JazzOne on Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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