T14 top 49%-26%: At Least 1 Callback? (poll by market)

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What market did you target, and to what result? (if evenly split, mark two)

Poll ended at Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:36 pm

New York: 0 callbacks
7
10%
New York: 1+ callbacks
19
27%
DC: 0 callbacks
5
7%
DC: 1+ callbacks
10
14%
LA: 0 callbacks
2
3%
LA: 1+ callbacks
6
9%
Bay Area: 0 callbacks
1
1%
Bay Area: 1+ callbacks
10
14%
Chicago: 0 callbacks
4
6%
Chicago: 1+ callbacks
6
9%
 
Total votes: 70

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T14 top 49%-26%: At Least 1 Callback? (poll by market)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:36 pm

I seem to recall hearing that people from a T14 at least a little above median would almost certainly get at least a few callbacks. This was not my experience. I would like to gather a little anecdotal evidence about others similarly situated. If you have theories as to what went wrong, feel free to share.

Unfortunately, the poll is limited to 10 options, so I decided not to include an "other".

Clarification: this is in regard to the market or markets you primarily targeted. "Primarily" means at least a third of your initial OCI interviews were in that market.

2nd Clarification: This poll is directed to those in the top half, but not in the top quarter.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: T14 above median: At Least 1 Callback? (poll by market)

Postby Unemployed » Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:47 pm

You are talking specifically about top 40-50% students, right? Top 10% people may vote based on the thread title alone, thereby distorting the results.

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Re: T14 above median: At Least 1 Callback? (poll by market)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:49 pm

Unemployed wrote:You are talking specifically about top 40-50% students, right? Top 10% people may vote based on the thread title alone, thereby distorting the results.


I was originally thinking anyone above median.

However, come to think of it, that might indeed be distorting: even if there is no direct correlation between grades and outcomes, there does seem to be a magical zone of about the top 25% that pretty much guarantees some success. So let's go with:

This poll is targeted toward those in the top half but not in the top quarter.

The data is fresh enough that I feel comfortable leaving it as-is rather than resetting. (I believe there were only about 5 responses, and all were 0 callbacks.)
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: T14 above median: At Least 1 Callback? (poll by market)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:50 pm

I don't know anyone who did more than token OCI with zero callbacks at my lower T14.

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Re: T14 above median: At Least 1 Callback? (poll by market)

Postby Bosque » Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:52 pm

I don't think (especially for the target demo of the poll) the problem is getting callbacks themselves. The big problem is getting offers. Offers are what we care about.

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Re: T14 above median: At Least 1 Callback? (poll by market)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I don't know anyone who did more than token OCI with zero callbacks at my lower T14.


This is the conventional wisdom; it seems several of us have found the contrary to be the case. Part of the purpose of this poll is to provide a rough picture of how commonly this occurs. It might be useful for next year, and it might be some consolation to people who are thinking they must be some kind of socially-retarded jerk for this to have happened.

Bosque wrote:I don't think (especially for the target demo of the poll) the problem is getting callbacks themselves. The big problem is getting offers. Offers are what we care about.


This poll could certainly be replicated for offers. (Maybe I'll go do that.) However, I think that an inability to get callbacks is itself an interesting phenomenon that warrants some attention. ("Interesting". Drink, drink.) It's a phased process, and this is an attempt to figure out what can screw up the getting-callbacks phase.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: T14 above median: At Least 1 Callback? (poll by market)

Postby Unemployed » Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:57 pm

Bosque wrote:I don't think (especially for the target demo of the poll) the problem is getting callbacks themselves. The big problem is getting offers. Offers are what we care about.


That's a great point.

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Re: T14 above median: At Least 1 Callback? (poll by market)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I don't know anyone who did more than token OCI with zero callbacks at my lower T14.


This is the conventional wisdom; it seems several of us have found the contrary to be the case. Part of the purpose of this poll is to provide a rough picture of how commonly this occurs. It might be useful for next year, and it might be some consolation to people who are thinking they must be some kind of socially-retarded jerk for this to have happened.

Bosque wrote:I don't think (especially for the target demo of the poll) the problem is getting callbacks themselves. The big problem is getting offers. Offers are what we care about.


This poll could certainly be replicated for offers. (Maybe I'll go do that.) However, I think that an inability to get callbacks is itself an interesting phenomenon that warrants some attention. ("Interesting". Drink, drink.) It's a phased process, and this is an attempt to figure out what can screw up the getting-callbacks phase.


I marked down 1+ in the DC market. But I don't think this poll shows much. I mean, 1+ can mean 1 callback or 10. 1 callback is, I think, pretty darn bad at a top 14 law school, above median. I'd break it down a little more if I were you. Maybe (if the system allows this many options), a 0, 1-2 and 2+ breakdown.

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Re: T14 top 49%-26%: At Least 1 Callback? (poll by market)

Postby Boalt1L » Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:18 pm

If it consoles you OP, callbacks don't mean anything in this economy when they are bringing in 25 people for 2 slots.

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Re: T14 top 49%-26%: At Least 1 Callback? (poll by market)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:30 pm

New poll posted for offers.

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Re: T14 above median: At Least 1 Callback? (poll by market)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:54 pm

Bosque wrote:I don't think (especially for the target demo of the poll) the problem is getting callbacks themselves. The big problem is getting offers. Offers are what we care about.


TCR. I found it much harder landing offers than callbacks.

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Re: T14 top 49%-26%: At Least 1 Callback? (poll by market)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:55 pm

Boalt1L wrote:If it consoles you OP, callbacks don't mean anything in this economy when they are bringing in 25 people for 2 slots.


Also, TCR. I was surprised to find this out in NEW YORK, of all markets.

Fyi, I am somewhere b/w top 30 and top 40% at a t-14. Somehow landed callbacks at almost 50% of my screeners, but had a low offer to callback rate. Tbf, 2 of the interviews were scheduled so late that the firms basically told me I was one of the last 5 callback candidates being interviewed. (This was in the last week of September.)

If you haven't been through OCI yet, keep in mind that when you do, try to schedule your callbacks EARLY. I haven't heard back from the 2 firms I interviewed with last, but I'm not betting on getting an offer from those two since both firms are having <20 summers and I was one of the last 5 being interviewed, out of hundreds of callbacks.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: T14 top 49%-26%: At Least 1 Callback? (poll by market)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:48 am

So this is interesting: it almost seems as though, for this group of applicants, it was harder to get a callback with New York than some areas traditionally thought of as harder to crack. Of course, it's offers that really matter, but no CBs often means no offers.

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Re: T14 top 49%-26%: At Least 1 Callback? (poll by market)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:33 am

Has anyone gotten feedback from interviewers or otherwise come to some sort of conclusion about why you didn't get any callbacks (or didn't get as many as you expected)?

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Re: T14 top 49%-26%: At Least 1 Callback? (poll by market)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:05 am

Anonymous User wrote:Has anyone gotten feedback from interviewers or otherwise come to some sort of conclusion about why you didn't get any callbacks (or didn't get as many as you expected)?


Not at a T14, but grades above top quarter (~top 20% est by my dean of admissions) at my BU/BC type school. I do know people in this GPA range generally got at least a callback or two, though it wasn't the auto-hire zone. I was told the issue was my creative background and WE, coupled with failure to make a strong case about why I wanted biglaw. Some employers wanted to talk at length about my background, which one partner conceded would keep me from being hired by his firm. I feel like I had great rapport with some of my interviewers, and wound up discussing things unrelated to the interview, but I do wonder if anyone could sense my ambivalence, or felt I would be unhappy working in a big firm environment. I know my interviewing can't have been completely heinous, because I landed an internship for the school year at a company that fits my background well.

In this hiring environment, I think fit mattered a lot, beyond an analysis of general people skills.

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Re: T14 top 49%-26%: At Least 1 Callback? (poll by market)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:14 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Has anyone gotten feedback from interviewers or otherwise come to some sort of conclusion about why you didn't get any callbacks (or didn't get as many as you expected)?


Not at a T14, but grades above top quarter (~top 20% est by my dean of admissions) at my BU/BC type school. I do know people in this GPA range generally got at least a callback or two, though it wasn't the auto-hire zone. I was told the issue was my creative background and WE, coupled with failure to make a strong case about why I wanted biglaw. Some employers wanted to talk at length about my background, which one partner conceded would keep me from being hired by his firm. I feel like I had great rapport with some of my interviewers, and wound up discussing things unrelated to the interview, but I do wonder if anyone could sense my ambivalence, or felt I would be unhappy working in a big firm environment. I know my interviewing can't have been completely heinous, because I landed an internship for the school year at a company that fits my background well.

In this hiring environment, I think fit mattered a lot, beyond an analysis of general people skills.


Although this is total derailment, theres a lot of truth to this. I have really interesting WE, and I think I was dinged at my first CB becuase I did not give a good reason why I'd want to work at a firm. Two partners kept aking if I wanted to go back to that type of job later, and one associate asked why I went to law school at all and seemed unconvinced.

I got offers from all my other CBs because by that point I thought of a really compelling reason why the two fit together and how my career was a logical step to law firm work. Lesson learned: its more important to know yourself, think through potential issues with your resume then needlessly research the firm. I didn't use any firm specific knowledge at all in any of my CBs.

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Re: T14 top 49%-26%: At Least 1 Callback? (poll by market)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Although this is total derailment, theres a lot of truth to this. I have really interesting WE, and I think I was dinged at my first CB becuase I did not give a good reason why I'd want to work at a firm. Two partners kept aking if I wanted to go back to that type of job later, and one associate asked why I went to law school at all and seemed unconvinced.

I got offers from all my other CBs because by that point I thought of a really compelling reason why the two fit together and how my career was a logical step to law firm work. Lesson learned: its more important to know yourself, think through potential issues with your resume then needlessly research the firm. I didn't use any firm specific knowledge at all in any of my CBs.


I don't think that's a derailment at all.

Yeah, it's really hard to figure out what they want. It kind of blows the mind to think that having too much interesting WE could be bad. One guy (not a law firm recruiter) seemed to make that argument with a straight face to me. This whole process pisses me off so much.

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Re: T14 top 49%-26%: At Least 1 Callback? (poll by market)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:25 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Has anyone gotten feedback from interviewers or otherwise come to some sort of conclusion about why you didn't get any callbacks (or didn't get as many as you expected)?


Not at a T14, but grades above top quarter (~top 20% est by my dean of admissions) at my BU/BC type school. I do know people in this GPA range generally got at least a callback or two, though it wasn't the auto-hire zone. I was told the issue was my creative background and WE, coupled with failure to make a strong case about why I wanted biglaw. Some employers wanted to talk at length about my background, which one partner conceded would keep me from being hired by his firm. I feel like I had great rapport with some of my interviewers, and wound up discussing things unrelated to the interview, but I do wonder if anyone could sense my ambivalence, or felt I would be unhappy working in a big firm environment. I know my interviewing can't have been completely heinous, because I landed an internship for the school year at a company that fits my background well.

In this hiring environment, I think fit mattered a lot, beyond an analysis of general people skills.


Although this is total derailment, theres a lot of truth to this. I have really interesting WE, and I think I was dinged at my first CB becuase I did not give a good reason why I'd want to work at a firm. Two partners kept aking if I wanted to go back to that type of job later, and one associate asked why I went to law school at all and seemed unconvinced.

I got offers from all my other CBs because by that point I thought of a really compelling reason why the two fit together and how my career was a logical step to law firm work. Lesson learned: its more important to know yourself, think through potential issues with your resume then needlessly research the firm. I didn't use any firm specific knowledge at all in any of my CBs.


Congrats! It really is great that you were able to tie the two together. My career is not a logical step to law firm work, though, unless the firm has clients in my industry. I went through OCI because it was the thing to do, and all the people I cared about were madly enthusiastic about it. I got caught up in their enthusiasm without thinking about whether it was the right thing for me. I don't regret doing it, though, because I am a lot more certain now about what I do want.




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