Top Firm in New Orleans vs. Mid Size Firm in ATL

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Top Firm in New Orleans vs. Mid Size Firm in ATL

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:39 pm

Would you rather work at the best firm in a market, or a mid size firm that is respected, but not as prestigous?

I could live in either city, and like the people I've met in both firms.

Both pay about the same, which may ultimately be the deal breaker because the cost of living in ATL is higher.

The ATL firm has had a 100% offer ratio for the last few years. The New Orleans firm is historically pretty conservative with hiring.

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Re: Top Firm in New Orleans vs. Mid Size Firm in ATL

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:29 pm

Can you give any idea on which firm in NO?

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Re: Top Firm in New Orleans vs. Mid Size Firm in ATL

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:39 pm

I'd prefer not say. It's not that hard; there are what, two maybe three firms that fit that description?

Can I pm an anon user?

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Re: Top Firm in New Orleans vs. Mid Size Firm in ATL

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:42 pm

Did the NO firm give you any indication of how many people they plan to hire this year? That is crucial in making a decision.

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Re: Top Firm in New Orleans vs. Mid Size Firm in ATL

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Did the NO firm give you any indication of how many people they plan to hire this year? That is crucial in making a decision.


They say everyone has a shot, but history tells me they'll extend offers to about half of the summer class.

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Re: Top Firm in New Orleans vs. Mid Size Firm in ATL

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:50 pm

Most NO firms allow you to split. Can you split your summer and work for both?

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Re: Top Firm in New Orleans vs. Mid Size Firm in ATL

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Most NO firms allow you to split. Can you split your summer and work for both?



Already splitting at a firm in another state for one portion of the summer.

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Re: Top Firm in New Orleans vs. Mid Size Firm in ATL

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:05 pm

I think it all depends where you want to be long term. Do you see yourself living in ATL or NO?

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matty
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Re: Top Firm in New Orleans vs. Mid Size Firm in ATL

Postby matty » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:10 pm

Man, I'd pick New Orleans over Atlanta every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Have you ever been to the garden district part of NOLA? It's fantastic.

Nevertheless, that doesn't seem to be a factor for you, in which case the number one concern for me would be getting an offer after the summer. If you miss out, it might be tough to get something 3L, and even tougher considering most firms will regard a non-offer as reflecting poorly on you. I'm not a risk-taker, so if I were really okay with living in ATL, I'd probably choose that firm.

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Re: Top Firm in New Orleans vs. Mid Size Firm in ATL

Postby 20160810 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:16 pm

When you're talking about firms in markets like ATL and NO, I don't think PRESSTEEEEEGE in the V10/NYC-type sense really applies. I'd go with whichever one seems to have the nicest people, pays the best, has the more humane hours, does the type of work you're interested in, etc. This doesn't feel like a decision which ought to be made based on "on paper" factors.

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Re: Top Firm in New Orleans vs. Mid Size Firm in ATL

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:25 pm

matty wrote:Man, I'd pick New Orleans over Atlanta every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Have you ever been to the garden district part of NOLA? It's fantastic.

Nevertheless, that doesn't seem to be a factor for you, in which case the number one concern for me would be getting an offer after the summer. If you miss out, it might be tough to get something 3L, and even tougher considering most firms will regard a non-offer as reflecting poorly on you. I'm not a risk-taker, so if I were really okay with living in ATL, I'd probably choose that firm.


Actually lived in the garden district for awhile. One thing I really like about the Atlanta firm is their demonstrated emphasis on teaching young associates. The issue is I won't get to really benefit from that unless I work there beyond next summer, which would be unlikely if I get an offer from the other firm I'll be working at this summer.

I understand what you are saying sbl, but I do think there is something to be said for being the top dog in a market as opposed to just another also ran (albeit a well respected one).

I just want to hear what people have to say. One major concern with Atlanta is the crazy housing market and col. Anyone with any comment on that?

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Re: Top Firm in New Orleans vs. Mid Size Firm in ATL

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:33 pm

Unless it would be giving away too much, could you state which group it is?

Group 1 - Locke Lord/Proskauer Rose/Adams and Reese/Phelps Dunbar/Jones Walker/etc.
Group 2 - McGlinchey Stafford/Stone Pigman/Chaffe McCall/Liskow Lewis/etc.

While this is unfortunate, I would say go with the safer firm (Atlanta). Most southern firms have poor offer rates in general because unlike northern firms, they never intend to hire all of their summer associates. If the firm in Atlanta offers anything near a 100% offer rate, its an exception and I would go with it.

Even the most prestigious high profile southern firms generally don't land anywhere near a 100% offer rate.

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Re: Top Firm in New Orleans vs. Mid Size Firm in ATL

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:36 pm

Unless it would be giving away too much, could you state which group it is?

Group 1 - Locke Lord/Proskauer Rose/Adams and Reese/Phelps Dunbar/Jones Walker/etc.
Group 2 - McGlinchey Stafford/Stone Pigman/Chaffe McCall/Liskow Lewis/etc.

While this is unfortunate, I would say go with the safer firm (Atlanta). Most southern firms have poor offer rates in general because unlike northern firms, they never intend to hire all of their summer associates. If the firm in Atlanta offers anything near a 100% offer rate, its an exception and I would go with it.

Even the most prestigious high profile southern firms generally don't land anywhere near a 100% offer rate.

OP are you doing this groups based on what you think are the most prestigious. Phelps is also not having a summer program.

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Re: Top Firm in New Orleans vs. Mid Size Firm in ATL

Postby rayiner » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Did the NO firm give you any indication of how many people they plan to hire this year? That is crucial in making a decision.


They say everyone has a shot, but history tells me they'll extend offers to about half of the summer class.


This should disqualify them immediately!

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Re: Top Firm in New Orleans vs. Mid Size Firm in ATL

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:48 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Unless it would be giving away too much, could you state which group it is?

Group 1 - Locke Lord/Proskauer Rose/Adams and Reese/Phelps Dunbar/Jones Walker/etc.
Group 2 - McGlinchey Stafford/Stone Pigman/Chaffe McCall/Liskow Lewis/etc.

While this is unfortunate, I would say go with the safer firm (Atlanta). Most southern firms have poor offer rates in general because unlike northern firms, they never intend to hire all of their summer associates. If the firm in Atlanta offers anything near a 100% offer rate, its an exception and I would go with it.

Even the most prestigious high profile southern firms generally don't land anywhere near a 100% offer rate.


Alston ATL had a 100% offer rate this summer.

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Re: Top Firm in New Orleans vs. Mid Size Firm in ATL

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:53 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Unless it would be giving away too much, could you state which group it is?

Group 1 - Locke Lord/Proskauer Rose/Adams and Reese/Phelps Dunbar/Jones Walker/etc.
Group 2 - McGlinchey Stafford/Stone Pigman/Chaffe McCall/Liskow Lewis/etc.

While this is unfortunate, I would say go with the safer firm (Atlanta). Most southern firms have poor offer rates in general because unlike northern firms, they never intend to hire all of their summer associates. If the firm in Atlanta offers anything near a 100% offer rate, its an exception and I would go with it.

Even the most prestigious high profile southern firms generally don't land anywhere near a 100% offer rate.



Group two. Yeah, I like the idea of essentially having one in the hand if I go to the atl firm.

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Re: Top Firm in New Orleans vs. Mid Size Firm in ATL

Postby beaches » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:58 pm

PM me. I have some thoughts but need to know which firm.

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Re: Top Firm in New Orleans vs. Mid Size Firm in ATL

Postby Bosque » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:59 pm

rayiner wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Did the NO firm give you any indication of how many people they plan to hire this year? That is crucial in making a decision.


They say everyone has a shot, but history tells me they'll extend offers to about half of the summer class.


This should disqualify them immediately!


THIS.

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Re: Top Firm in New Orleans vs. Mid Size Firm in ATL

Postby olderlawyer » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:02 pm

I don't understand how the Tulane-seal poster grouped the New Orleans firms. I have a fair amount of experience with them and would not put them in those two groups for any reason, including size and prestige. I am curious whether it was merely a random way of grouping them to preserve anonymity or whether there are some supposed similarities between the firms in the two groups.

Having said all of that, I think New Orleans is a very unusual market. It is heavily dominated by locals. I think it is a great place to live and work if you're on the inside, and you can become an insider quickly if you fit in. If you don't, though, you're in big trouble. I wish I thought it had changed over the years (I'm, as I say, an older lawyer) but I don't think it really has. There is an insularity that is palpable. So I think you should take your cue from how much of a relationship you think you have or can build with the people who offer you the job. If you immediately become their pal, you couldn't ask for a better place. If you don't feel like you've known them all your life, I'd say go elsewhere.

Oh, and I think there are certain practice areas which are better in New Orleans than in other places--admiralty and insurance defense litigation are strong and don't see the downturns that transactional/corporate and commercial litigation do. (Think torts.)

Good luck.

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Re: Top Firm in New Orleans vs. Mid Size Firm in ATL

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:07 pm

50% summer offer rate = deal-breaker, if you have a safer option.

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Re: Top Firm in New Orleans vs. Mid Size Firm in ATL

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:07 pm

I grouped firms according to their NLJ250 status.

Does it matter? No, not really.

But I was curious. As a lot people are aware of, Tulane didn't place in the 50 go-to schools for big law. So I asked career services about it. They basically said that a lot of hyper prestigious new orleans firms take students from the top of the class that would have gone to NLJ250 firms otherwise (Stone Pigman hires 2 of the top 10 people from Tulane every year - even before the recession). I'm simply seeing if it career services was being honest (which it was).

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Re: Top Firm in New Orleans vs. Mid Size Firm in ATL

Postby nealric » Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:24 pm

I would pick the NO firm to work for if we were talking about permanent offers. I think there is a definite advantage to being at the best firm in town.

However, if the ATL firm has a 100% offer rate and the NO firm only has a 50% offer rate, the choice is easy: Take the ATL firm- it's just not worth the risk.

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Re: Top Firm in New Orleans vs. Mid Size Firm in ATL

Postby pocket herc » Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:31 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:I grouped firms according to their NLJ250 status.

Does it matter? No, not really.

But I was curious. As a lot people are aware of, Tulane didn't place in the 50 go-to schools for big law. So I asked career services about it. They basically said that a lot of hyper prestigious new orleans firms take students from the top of the class that would have gone to NLJ250 firms otherwise (Stone Pigman hires 2 of the top 10 people from Tulane every year - even before the recession). I'm simply seeing if it career services was being honest (which it was).

Tulane students, like most students, are strugglin right now. LR kids have done well but beyond that...

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Re: Top Firm in New Orleans vs. Mid Size Firm in ATL

Postby olderlawyer » Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:02 pm

I appreciate your explaining the grouping--I am not very aware of things like NLJ rankings and now I think I understand it is based upon size. Otherwise the firms in each group have, in my opinion, not that much in common. If anyone is interested in an admittedly subjective view of the relative prestige rankings of these and a couple of other N.O. firms, I'd answer PMs about it.

Meanwhile, let me say to the Tulane student, if I understand your comment correctly you're suggesting that New Orleans firms are loyal in hiring Tulane students and that Tulane students, reciprocally, often choose New Orleans firms when they would have chances at bigger, higher-paying, and higher-ranking firms elsewhere. I would agree wholeheartedly. New Orleans firms want people to love the city and to want to stay. Tulane students, having spent at least three years in New Orleans, have demonstrated great familiarity with what it would be like to live in New Orleans, and perhaps will overlook its shortcomings and also aren't quite as thrilled with the idea of making the same bucks in Atlanta or slightly more in Houston but having to work lots harder.

I am not sure how good the law firm economy is in New Orleans. There is oil spill work, but Texas firms were trying to abscond with that business. It isn't a great sign that Phelps isn't doing a summer program--they had 15 or more this past summer I think. New Orleans firms don't usually hire cannon fodder; they try to bring in associates on a serious partnership track (a good thing because lateral moves out of Louisiana can be tricky.) So I think that perhaps, for very good reasons, Tulane is still the preferred law school from which the most prestigious New Orleans firms draw new associates but I also think that New Orleans firms have their limits in terms of how many they can afford to hire. Since the market will bear it, the firms seem to be bringing in larger numbers of summer associates (from Tulane and elsewhere) than they can make offers to in the end.

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Re: Top Firm in New Orleans vs. Mid Size Firm in ATL

Postby Aqualibrium » Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:07 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:I grouped firms according to their NLJ250 status.

Does it matter? No, not really.

But I was curious. As a lot people are aware of, Tulane didn't place in the 50 go-to schools for big law. So I asked career services about it. They basically said that a lot of hyper prestigious new orleans firms take students from the top of the class that would have gone to NLJ250 firms otherwise (Stone Pigman hires 2 of the top 10 people from Tulane every year - even before the recession). I'm simply seeing if it career services was being honest (which it was).


I don't think that there are enough of these uber prestigous non nlj250 firms hiring Tulane grads in New Orleans to account for the fact that they weren't listed in the go to schools article.




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