Asking for an Extension

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devilsdancefloor
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Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:11 pm

Asking for an Extension

Postby devilsdancefloor » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:18 pm

Hello,

I am very close to 28 days since my offer from a NYC Biglaw (v100) firm. They have a decent reputation, a high offer rate, and the people were perfectly lovely. They have interesting work, but don't do anything international at all... and I am planning on going into international legal work post-firm life..

This was the first firm that gave me an offer, and most of my call backs were scheduled at least a week after my interview with them. They called the day after to extend the offer.

...My top choice firm for the summer has me on hold. The recruiter told me they wouldn't be able to let me know for another few weeks... but the practice areas are somewhat unique and align perfectly with my interests.

Should I ask for an extension on the first firm to see if maybe the second will un-waitlist me?

Anyone with experience asking for one? How do you do it?

Anonymous User
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Re: Asking for an Extension

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:38 pm

devilsdancefloor wrote:Hello,

I am very close to 28 days since my offer from a NYC Biglaw (v100) firm. They have a decent reputation, a high offer rate, and the people were perfectly lovely. They have interesting work, but don't do anything international at all... and I am planning on going into international legal work post-firm life..

This was the first firm that gave me an offer, and most of my call backs were scheduled at least a week after my interview with them. They called the day after to extend the offer.

...My top choice firm for the summer has me on hold. The recruiter told me they wouldn't be able to let me know for another few weeks... but the practice areas are somewhat unique and align perfectly with my interests.

Should I ask for an extension on the first firm to see if maybe the second will un-waitlist me?

Anyone with experience asking for one? How do you do it?

My neighbor is a recruiter at a V50 firm, and she said their committee gets really turned off by students who ask for an extension to wait to hear from another firm. Of course, the student they referenced asked for it over a week before the deadline, and told the firm they were waiting to 'hear back from a few other firms.' Essentially, this lets them know they are not on the top of your list, and makes them less enthused about getting you, even if you end up accepting. They probably have a sense of that already, considering you've almost run out the clock.

If you call for an extension, do so the day before the timeline. You might want to indicate that, while you love their firm and would probably be happiest there culturally, you've recently gotten rather interested in international law, and there is a firm where you interviewed much later who might give you the opportunity to explore the field. Then explain the timeline crunch, see if they'd be willing to grant an extension, and apologize profusely.

Here's a key point: Have a gameplan for if they don't grant the extension. My neighbor said they were not inclined to grant extensions this late in the game, and I think that's proably true elsewhere too. Firms give a lot more offers than they have available spots, assuming a bunch will turn them down, and considering most people who accept do so early in their 28-day window, at this point most firms are hoping to get people to decline. I don't know how much of a risk-taker you are, but if the other firm really wanted you, they could make you a quick offer too. If this firm does not grant the extension, I might accept at that point, and then try and do your best to show them how much you actually really wanted to work there. You'll have to make that call, though.

yeoob
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Re: Asking for an Extension

Postby yeoob » Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:31 pm

Two years ago, a friend from T10 asked for a few days extention and the offer was immediately withdrawn....be careful here.

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Kohinoor
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Re: Asking for an Extension

Postby Kohinoor » Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:41 pm

devilsdancefloor wrote:Hello,

I am very close to 28 days since my offer from a NYC Biglaw (v100) firm. They have a decent reputation, a high offer rate, and the people were perfectly lovely. They have interesting work, but don't do anything international at all... and I am planning on going into international legal work post-firm life..

This was the first firm that gave me an offer, and most of my call backs were scheduled at least a week after my interview with them. They called the day after to extend the offer.

...My top choice firm for the summer has me on hold. The recruiter told me they wouldn't be able to let me know for another few weeks... but the practice areas are somewhat unique and align perfectly with my interests.

Should I ask for an extension on the first firm to see if maybe the second will un-waitlist me?

Anyone with experience asking for one? How do you do it?

Seems like a really bad idea.

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vamedic03
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Re: Asking for an Extension

Postby vamedic03 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:08 pm

devilsdancefloor wrote:Hello,

I am very close to 28 days since my offer from a NYC Biglaw (v100) firm. They have a decent reputation, a high offer rate, and the people were perfectly lovely. They have interesting work, but don't do anything international at all... and I am planning on going into international legal work post-firm life..

This was the first firm that gave me an offer, and most of my call backs were scheduled at least a week after my interview with them. They called the day after to extend the offer.

...My top choice firm for the summer has me on hold. The recruiter told me they wouldn't be able to let me know for another few weeks... but the practice areas are somewhat unique and align perfectly with my interests.

Should I ask for an extension on the first firm to see if maybe the second will un-waitlist me?

Anyone with experience asking for one? How do you do it?


Its perfectly reasonable to ask for an extension - you shouldn't have to make a decision without all the information available. Just use tact in how you request the extension.

As to the anecdote about the offer being withdrawn - sounds like it was 2008, which was an unusual time period. Also, back then there was a 45 day window which probably avoided a lot of these issues.

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Kohinoor
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Re: Asking for an Extension

Postby Kohinoor » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:09 pm

vamedic03 wrote:
devilsdancefloor wrote:Hello,

I am very close to 28 days since my offer from a NYC Biglaw (v100) firm. They have a decent reputation, a high offer rate, and the people were perfectly lovely. They have interesting work, but don't do anything international at all... and I am planning on going into international legal work post-firm life..

This was the first firm that gave me an offer, and most of my call backs were scheduled at least a week after my interview with them. They called the day after to extend the offer.

...My top choice firm for the summer has me on hold. The recruiter told me they wouldn't be able to let me know for another few weeks... but the practice areas are somewhat unique and align perfectly with my interests.

Should I ask for an extension on the first firm to see if maybe the second will un-waitlist me?

Anyone with experience asking for one? How do you do it?


Its perfectly reasonable to ask for an extension - you shouldn't have to make a decision without all the information available. Just use tact in how you request the extension.

As to the anecdote about the offer being withdrawn - sounds like it was 2008, which was an unusual time period. Also, back then there was a 45 day window which probably avoided a lot of these issues.
I think we're still in a very unusual time period.

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wiseowl
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Re: Asking for an Extension

Postby wiseowl » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:16 pm

Any firm that would withdraw for something that petty is a TTT you want to avoid anyway. I bet that V10 rhymed with "Pay them".

The firm will take all the time it needs at the end of next summer to decide on you. You should do the same.

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vamedic03
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Re: Asking for an Extension

Postby vamedic03 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:20 pm

Kohinoor wrote:
vamedic03 wrote:
devilsdancefloor wrote:Hello,

I am very close to 28 days since my offer from a NYC Biglaw (v100) firm. They have a decent reputation, a high offer rate, and the people were perfectly lovely. They have interesting work, but don't do anything international at all... and I am planning on going into international legal work post-firm life..

This was the first firm that gave me an offer, and most of my call backs were scheduled at least a week after my interview with them. They called the day after to extend the offer.

...My top choice firm for the summer has me on hold. The recruiter told me they wouldn't be able to let me know for another few weeks... but the practice areas are somewhat unique and align perfectly with my interests.

Should I ask for an extension on the first firm to see if maybe the second will un-waitlist me?

Anyone with experience asking for one? How do you do it?


Its perfectly reasonable to ask for an extension - you shouldn't have to make a decision without all the information available. Just use tact in how you request the extension.

As to the anecdote about the offer being withdrawn - sounds like it was 2008, which was an unusual time period. Also, back then there was a 45 day window which probably avoided a lot of these issues.
I think we're still in a very unusual time period.


I'm sure a lot of it still depends on the firm and the candidate, but, its a two way street. They've given you an offer and they're trying to recruit you to come to the firm. If you make a reasonable request for an extension, its in their best interest to provide you with the extension.

When you're choosing what firm to work for, you're making a very important decision. You shouldn't make that decision until you have all the information that you feel that you need, you've asked the questions that you need to ask, and you know what all your options are.

To the OP: Call the firm that you're waiting on and tell them your situation. Explain that you're very interested in them, but you're starting to bump against another offer's deadline. Likewise, call the firm with the outstanding offer, explain to them that you're very interested in them, but you're waiting to hear from one firm, that you've put pressure on that firm, and that you would like to have a short extension to make sure that you can make a fully informed decision.

I can assure you that other candidates are asking hard questions, are requesting extensions, and doing what they need to do to both protective themselves and make sure that they make an informed decision.

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jchoggan
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Re: Asking for an Extension

Postby jchoggan » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:38 pm

vamedic03 wrote:I'm sure a lot of it still depends on the firm and the candidate, but, its a two way street. They've given you an offer and they're trying to recruit you to come to the firm. If you make a reasonable request for an extension, its in their best interest to provide you with the extension.

Nope. At this stage in the game, they have more pending offers out than they have available spots. It is not in their best interest to give an extension to someone who obviously doesn't care about their firm simply to woo them back. At this point, they would much rather (a) drop the offer, (b) give the offer to somebody else who actually wants the job (and may be a better candidate but had their callback after this offer went out), or (c) just have the kid accept and move on. The 28-day NALP guideline is there to keep firms from doing what is in their best interest. Nothing about giving this kid an extension is good for them (aside from perhaps avoiding bad anecdotal evidence thrown at them via TLS or ATL).

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vamedic03
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Re: Asking for an Extension

Postby vamedic03 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:43 pm

jchoggan wrote:
vamedic03 wrote:I'm sure a lot of it still depends on the firm and the candidate, but, its a two way street. They've given you an offer and they're trying to recruit you to come to the firm. If you make a reasonable request for an extension, its in their best interest to provide you with the extension.

Nope. At this stage in the game, they have more pending offers out than they have available spots. It is not in their best interest to give an extension to someone who obviously doesn't care about their firm simply to woo them back. At this point, they would much rather (a) drop the offer, (b) give the offer to somebody else who actually wants the job (and may be a better candidate but had their callback after this offer went out), or (c) just have the kid accept and move on. The 28-day NALP guideline is there to keep firms from doing what is in their best interest. Nothing about giving this kid an extension is good for them (aside from perhaps avoiding bad anecdotal evidence thrown at them via TLS or ATL).


Again, as I said above, it depends on the firm and the candidate. However, the reason that the firm gave you the offer is that they want you to work for them. Firms that are worried about have too high of a yield don't give out all their offers at once. But, the firm gave you an offer because they want you to work for them. Based on this, its a two way street.

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Kohinoor
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Re: Asking for an Extension

Postby Kohinoor » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:01 pm

vamedic03 wrote:
jchoggan wrote:
vamedic03 wrote:I'm sure a lot of it still depends on the firm and the candidate, but, its a two way street. They've given you an offer and they're trying to recruit you to come to the firm. If you make a reasonable request for an extension, its in their best interest to provide you with the extension.

Nope. At this stage in the game, they have more pending offers out than they have available spots. It is not in their best interest to give an extension to someone who obviously doesn't care about their firm simply to woo them back. At this point, they would much rather (a) drop the offer, (b) give the offer to somebody else who actually wants the job (and may be a better candidate but had their callback after this offer went out), or (c) just have the kid accept and move on. The 28-day NALP guideline is there to keep firms from doing what is in their best interest. Nothing about giving this kid an extension is good for them (aside from perhaps avoiding bad anecdotal evidence thrown at them via TLS or ATL).


Again, as I said above, it depends on the firm and the candidate. However, the reason that the firm gave you the offer is that they want you to work for them. Firms that are worried about have too high of a yield don't give out all their offers at once. But, the firm gave you an offer because they want you to work for them. Based on this, its a two way street.

It's a two way street, but wouldn't suggesting that you really want to keep your options open irrevocably alter the dimensions of that street?

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vamedic03
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Re: Asking for an Extension

Postby vamedic03 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:05 pm

Kohinoor wrote:
vamedic03 wrote:
jchoggan wrote:
vamedic03 wrote:I'm sure a lot of it still depends on the firm and the candidate, but, its a two way street. They've given you an offer and they're trying to recruit you to come to the firm. If you make a reasonable request for an extension, its in their best interest to provide you with the extension.

Nope. At this stage in the game, they have more pending offers out than they have available spots. It is not in their best interest to give an extension to someone who obviously doesn't care about their firm simply to woo them back. At this point, they would much rather (a) drop the offer, (b) give the offer to somebody else who actually wants the job (and may be a better candidate but had their callback after this offer went out), or (c) just have the kid accept and move on. The 28-day NALP guideline is there to keep firms from doing what is in their best interest. Nothing about giving this kid an extension is good for them (aside from perhaps avoiding bad anecdotal evidence thrown at them via TLS or ATL).


Again, as I said above, it depends on the firm and the candidate. However, the reason that the firm gave you the offer is that they want you to work for them. Firms that are worried about have too high of a yield don't give out all their offers at once. But, the firm gave you an offer because they want you to work for them. Based on this, its a two way street.

It's a two way street, but wouldn't suggesting that you really want to keep your options open irrevocably alter the dimensions of that street?


You're not keeping your options open, rather, you're asking for more time so that you can make an informed decision. I think that it is important to frame the issue as an informed decision issue rather than a 'keeping the options open' issue. You're not asking for more time because you want to keep options open, rather, you're saying that you need another week to get a rather essential piece of information to be able to make an informed decision.

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RVP11
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Re: Asking for an Extension

Postby RVP11 » Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:52 am

yeoob wrote:Two years ago, a friend from T10 asked for a few days extention and the offer was immediately withdrawn....be careful here.


Definitely the exception and not the rule. I asked for a short extension from multiple firms and was granted them, no questions asked. Employers realize that 28 days (and often much less) is not very long to weigh competing offers.

On the other hand, asking to have your offer deadline extended without a very good reason is a bad idea. A good reason would be something like "I'm coming to XYZ City and would like to visit the firm a second time" or "I'm trying to make a decision on whether I want to be in X City or Y City." "The firm I want more said they'll get back to me in a few weeks" = a bad reason.

Anonymous User
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Re: Asking for an Extension

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:31 am

What about accepting and reneging if you get the other firm?

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jchoggan
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Re: Asking for an Extension

Postby jchoggan » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:05 am

Anonymous User wrote:What about accepting and reneging if you get the other firm?

LOL. Wanna get sued for breach of contract? Go for it.

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FlightoftheEarls
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Re: Asking for an Extension

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:32 am

jchoggan wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What about accepting and reneging if you get the other firm?

LOL. Wanna get sued for breach of contract? Go for it.

Huh? It's at-will employment, you're allowed to decide not to go to a firm without being sued for "breach of contract" or whatever you're suggesting. I can't imagine they'll be able to demonstrate real damages or an inability to mitigate those damages by just hiring somebody else. That's just silly.

That said, the real reason you don't want to do this is because the firm will report it to your OCS and, if they know the firm you've reneged on them for, probably to that firm. If that happens, you run the risk of losing both offers and all future support (even if worthless, in your opinion) of your school's OCS. I don't know if this is something they can report to the state's bar association (probably not), but that would be another potentially terrible consequence.

Renzo
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Re: Asking for an Extension

Postby Renzo » Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:22 pm

Keep in mind that getting a SA offer is just the first step in getting a job. At the end of the summer they are going to have to decide if you get a permanent offer, and they'll remember that you didn't seem like the most eager candidate. Will this absolutely sink you? No. Could it make the difference if they're on the fence? Absolutely.

If the other job is really that much better, maybe asking for an extension is worth the risk. But I would be very, very cautious about doing anything that conveys anything but wholehearted desire to be at the firm.

MrAnon
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Re: Asking for an Extension

Postby MrAnon » Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:53 pm

never ever do this. It just shows you are not interested in the first firm. They can and should pull your offer.

a bird in the hand it worth two in the bush. If there is a firm that wants you and is eager to take you then just go with it.

Anonymous User
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Re: Asking for an Extension

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:30 pm

I'm confused, a firm can tell you at any point after you accept your offer that they actually wont be needing you this summer, yet if you do the same exact thing that is unethical?

Anonymous User
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Re: Asking for an Extension

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:08 pm

I got a short (4 days) extension after learning late into my 28 days about the viability of doing a split between two of their offices. They were really nice about it, I just told them I needed a few days to think about it now that I had all the information about the office in the secondary market. It didn't seem to be a problem at all. And they have a 100% offer rate so I seriously doubt they will think back to my need for a few more days in deciding whether to give me an offer. Then again, I don't see why they'd ever do that, if you chose to go there over the other firm when you were on the fence and then were an enthusiastic employee all summer. Seriously? If they're looking for excuses not to extend you a permanent offer by checking the dates of your acceptance, things are not looking so good for you anyway.

chicago123456
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Re: Asking for an Extension

Postby chicago123456 » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I got a short (4 days) extension after learning late into my 28 days about the viability of doing a split between two of their offices. They were really nice about it, I just told them I needed a few days to think about it now that I had all the information about the office in the secondary market. It didn't seem to be a problem at all. And they have a 100% offer rate so I seriously doubt they will think back to my need for a few more days in deciding whether to give me an offer. Then again, I don't see why they'd ever do that, if you chose to go there over the other firm when you were on the fence and then were an enthusiastic employee all summer. Seriously? If they're looking for excuses not to extend you a permanent offer by checking the dates of your acceptance, things are not looking so good for you anyway.


was this firm in chicago and did you just get the extension?

Renzo
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Re: Asking for an Extension

Postby Renzo » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I got a short (4 days) extension after learning late into my 28 days about the viability of doing a split between two of their offices. They were really nice about it, I just told them I needed a few days to think about it now that I had all the information about the office in the secondary market. It didn't seem to be a problem at all. And they have a 100% offer rate so I seriously doubt they will think back to my need for a few more days in deciding whether to give me an offer. Then again, I don't see why they'd ever do that, if you chose to go there over the other firm when you were on the fence and then were an enthusiastic employee all summer. Seriously? If they're looking for excuses not to extend you a permanent offer by checking the dates of your acceptance, things are not looking so good for you anyway.

I think your situation and asking for an extension which is clearly intended to allow you to hear from a first-choice firm send drastically different messages.

Anonymous User
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Re: Asking for an Extension

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:37 am

Ask for an extension and go visit the firm. That way they will think that you're deciding between your top choices. If you end up picking this firm, they will think they impressed you the most, and you shouldn't be hurt by your extension request.




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