Outside of the v10, vault firms keeping small classes...

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Anonymous User
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Outside of the v10, vault firms keeping small classes...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:01 pm

I started this thread to see whether people had a similar experience with callbacks this year.

I interviewed with vault 50 firms outside of the v10. The firms I interviewed with are keeping the same class sizes next summer as they had this summer. Furthermore, it seems that they are calling back more people for the same number of spots. (I know that one firm called back 300 people for a class of 15 summers in their New York office.) Based on my experience, I don't really think this year has been that much better than last year. There may be a slight trickle down effect from the v10s having larger classes. However, it also seems that the competition has increased at lower ranked vault-firms because firms seem to be calling back even more people for the same, limited number of spots.

What has your experience been this recruiting season? Did vault firms you interviewed with call back more people this year people despite keeping classes the same size?

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Bosque
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Re: Outside of the v10, vault firms keeping small classes...

Postby Bosque » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I started this thread to see whether people had a similar experience with callbacks this year.

I interviewed with vault 50 firms outside of the v10. The firms I interviewed with are keeping the same class sizes next summer as they had this summer. Furthermore, it seems that they are calling back more people for the same number of spots. (I know that one firm called back 300 people for a class of 15 summers in their New York office.) Based on my experience, I don't really think this year has been that much better than last year. There may be a slight trickle down effect from the v10s having larger classes. However, it also seems that the competition has increased at lower ranked vault-firms because firms seem to be calling back even more people for the same, limited number of spots.

What has your experience been this recruiting season? Did vault firms you interviewed with call back more people this year people despite keeping classes the same size?


First off, the bolded if true is ridiculous. That is a LOT of money.

Second, I know this is not much comfort to those who do not yet have an offer, but you need to also look at it the other way around. If the firms keep the classes down, that increases the chances that a summer has to actually get hired, especially if the economy improves between now and the end of the upcoming summer. So it is not all bad.

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Re: Outside of the v10, vault firms keeping small classes...

Postby Ahhhnold » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:18 pm

Bosque wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I started this thread to see whether people had a similar experience with callbacks this year.

I interviewed with vault 50 firms outside of the v10. The firms I interviewed with are keeping the same class sizes next summer as they had this summer. Furthermore, it seems that they are calling back more people for the same number of spots. (I know that one firm called back 300 people for a class of 15 summers in their New York office.) Based on my experience, I don't really think this year has been that much better than last year. There may be a slight trickle down effect from the v10s having larger classes. However, it also seems that the competition has increased at lower ranked vault-firms because firms seem to be calling back even more people for the same, limited number of spots.

What has your experience been this recruiting season? Did vault firms you interviewed with call back more people this year people despite keeping classes the same size?


First off, the bolded if true is ridiculous. That is a LOT of money.

Second, I know this is not much comfort to those who do not yet have an offer, but you need to also look at it the other way around. If the firms keep the classes down, that increases the chances that a summer has to actually get hired, especially if the economy improves between now and the end of the upcoming summer. So it is not all bad.


+1. Goal is offer after SA, that can only help.

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Re: Outside of the v10, vault firms keeping small classes...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:25 pm

Bosque wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I started this thread to see whether people had a similar experience with callbacks this year.

I interviewed with vault 50 firms outside of the v10. The firms I interviewed with are keeping the same class sizes next summer as they had this summer. Furthermore, it seems that they are calling back more people for the same number of spots. (I know that one firm called back 300 people for a class of 15 summers in their New York office.) Based on my experience, I don't really think this year has been that much better than last year. There may be a slight trickle down effect from the v10s having larger classes. However, it also seems that the competition has increased at lower ranked vault-firms because firms seem to be calling back even more people for the same, limited number of spots.

What has your experience been this recruiting season? Did vault firms you interviewed with call back more people this year people despite keeping classes the same size?


First off, the bolded if true is ridiculous.

I don't think it's that outrageous. There are some firms whose offer:acceptance ratio is around 10:1 to 15:1 with my school.
Callbacks/offers aren't distributed evenly. They tend to go to the same group of people. Factoring in the people you reject from the callbacks, it seems like 300:15 is about right.

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Re: Outside of the v10, vault firms keeping small classes...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Bosque wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I started this thread to see whether people had a similar experience with callbacks this year.

I interviewed with vault 50 firms outside of the v10. The firms I interviewed with are keeping the same class sizes next summer as they had this summer. Furthermore, it seems that they are calling back more people for the same number of spots. (I know that one firm called back 300 people for a class of 15 summers in their New York office.) Based on my experience, I don't really think this year has been that much better than last year. There may be a slight trickle down effect from the v10s having larger classes. However, it also seems that the competition has increased at lower ranked vault-firms because firms seem to be calling back even more people for the same, limited number of spots.

What has your experience been this recruiting season? Did vault firms you interviewed with call back more people this year people despite keeping classes the same size?


First off, the bolded if true is ridiculous.

I don't think it's that outrageous. There are some firms whose offer:acceptance ratio is around 10:1 to 15:1 with my school.
Callbacks/offers aren't distributed evenly. They tend to go to the same group of people. Factoring in the people you reject from the callbacks, it seems like 300:15 is about right.


Yeah, not to mention firms probably give 1.5-2 times as many offers for their class size, because some people will reject the offers. Therefore it'd be around a 10% offer rate for callbacks at this particular firm.

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Re: Outside of the v10, vault firms keeping small classes...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:49 pm

Bosque wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I started this thread to see whether people had a similar experience with callbacks this year.

I interviewed with vault 50 firms outside of the v10. The firms I interviewed with are keeping the same class sizes next summer as they had this summer. Furthermore, it seems that they are calling back more people for the same number of spots. (I know that one firm called back 300 people for a class of 15 summers in their New York office.) Based on my experience, I don't really think this year has been that much better than last year. There may be a slight trickle down effect from the v10s having larger classes. However, it also seems that the competition has increased at lower ranked vault-firms because firms seem to be calling back even more people for the same, limited number of spots.

What has your experience been this recruiting season? Did vault firms you interviewed with call back more people this year people despite keeping classes the same size?


First off, the bolded if true is ridiculous. That is a LOT of money.


I think this firm was an outlier in that it called back 300 people, but other firms called back 100-200 people for similar class sizes.

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Re: Outside of the v10, vault firms keeping small classes...

Postby Kohinoor » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I started this thread to see whether people had a similar experience with callbacks this year.

I interviewed with vault 50 firms outside of the v10. The firms I interviewed with are keeping the same class sizes next summer as they had this summer. Furthermore, it seems that they are calling back more people for the same number of spots. (I know that one firm called back 300 people for a class of 15 summers in their New York office.) Based on my experience, I don't really think this year has been that much better than last year. There may be a slight trickle down effect from the v10s having larger classes. However, it also seems that the competition has increased at lower ranked vault-firms because firms seem to be calling back even more people for the same, limited number of spots.

What has your experience been this recruiting season? Did vault firms you interviewed with call back more people this year people despite keeping classes the same size?

I definitely feel that there were significantly fewer spots to go around this term without a corresponding decrease in callbacks.

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Re: Outside of the v10, vault firms keeping small classes...

Postby Kohinoor » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:57 pm

Bosque wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I started this thread to see whether people had a similar experience with callbacks this year.

I interviewed with vault 50 firms outside of the v10. The firms I interviewed with are keeping the same class sizes next summer as they had this summer. Furthermore, it seems that they are calling back more people for the same number of spots. (I know that one firm called back 300 people for a class of 15 summers in their New York office.) Based on my experience, I don't really think this year has been that much better than last year. There may be a slight trickle down effect from the v10s having larger classes. However, it also seems that the competition has increased at lower ranked vault-firms because firms seem to be calling back even more people for the same, limited number of spots.

What has your experience been this recruiting season? Did vault firms you interviewed with call back more people this year people despite keeping classes the same size?


First off, the bolded if true is ridiculous. That is a LOT of money.

Second, I know this is not much comfort to those who do not yet have an offer, but you need to also look at it the other way around. If the firms keep the classes down, that increases the chances that a summer has to actually get hired, especially if the economy improves between now and the end of the upcoming summer. So it is not all bad.
I mean, yeah, it's better for the few people that get positions but it's definitely way worse for us as a whole.

Also, it seems like a lot of money to call that many back but they could cover that cost by having like two fewer SAs.

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matty
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Re: Outside of the v10, vault firms keeping small classes...

Postby matty » Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:30 pm

A few firms that I interviewed with--one where I have an offer--are indeed having smaller summer classes this year than they did the year before, even 15-20 less. Kind of worrisome in that it goes against the conventional wisdom that things are looking at least a little brighter for firms, but I'm treating it as it like others have suggested: The smaller the class, the better chance for an offer (hopefully)

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Re: Outside of the v10, vault firms keeping small classes...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:45 pm

Yeah, the firm I accepted is having a couple fewer summers than last year. They were very upfront in my screener interview about having had to no offer a couple people this past summer because of the economy. Said they hated doing it and didn't want to risk having to do it again this coming summer, hence the smaller class size.

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Re: Outside of the v10, vault firms keeping small classes...

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:19 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Yeah, not to mention firms probably give 1.5-2 times as many offers for their class size, because some people will reject the offers. Therefore it'd be around a 10% offer rate for callbacks at this particular firm.


More than that, it's probably more like 4:1. The most popular firms at CLS (DPW and Cleary) still have more than half their offerrees turn them down. Good firms like S&C, Debevoise, Skadden, etc. have even lower yields - 25%-33%.

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Re: Outside of the v10, vault firms keeping small classes...

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:24 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Yeah, not to mention firms probably give 1.5-2 times as many offers for their class size, because some people will reject the offers. Therefore it'd be around a 10% offer rate for callbacks at this particular firm.


More than that, it's probably more like 4:1. The most popular firms at CLS (DPW and Cleary) still have more than half their offerrees turn them down. Good firms like S&C, Debevoise, Skadden, etc. have even lower yields - 25%-33%.


That's not surprising for high ranked firms - people those firms give callbacks to are far more likely to have multiple offers with similarly high ranked firms than those at lower ranked firms where median-ish people may slip through the cracks. At many lower ranked firms I would expect higher yield rates. (Also, top 10% probably wouldn't bother doing callbacks with lower ranked firms anyway.)

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Re: Outside of the v10, vault firms keeping small classes...

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:04 pm

.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Outside of the v10, vault firms keeping small classes...

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Yeah, not to mention firms probably give 1.5-2 times as many offers for their class size, because some people will reject the offers. Therefore it'd be around a 10% offer rate for callbacks at this particular firm.


More than that, it's probably more like 4:1. The most popular firms at CLS (DPW and Cleary) still have more than half their offerrees turn them down. Good firms like S&C, Debevoise, Skadden, etc. have even lower yields - 25%-33%.


That's not surprising for high ranked firms - people those firms give callbacks to are far more likely to have multiple offers with similarly high ranked firms than those at lower ranked firms where median-ish people may slip through the cracks. At many lower ranked firms I would expect higher yield rates. (Also, top 10% probably wouldn't bother doing callbacks with lower ranked firms anyway.)

not really. SRZ has a notoriously low yield rate (last year was 13:1). Cadwalader was 3:1, Dechert was 5:1, Dewey was 14:3, Kaye Scholer was 4:1, Ropes was 11:3, Stroock was 4:1, Willkie was 11:2, etc. Like I said above; offers tend to go to the same people... this seems to hold outside the top third as well.


Where did you get these numbers? Is this school specific? If not, can you provide a link?

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Re: Outside of the v10, vault firms keeping small classes...

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:23 pm

.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Outside of the v10, vault firms keeping small classes...

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:31 pm

What was A&O?

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Re: Outside of the v10, vault firms keeping small classes...

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What was A&O?


I assume you are asking about CLS's yield, but if not.

I had a callback with them - Interviewer mentioned doing callbacks with 300 and are looking to hire 15 in NY.

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Re: Outside of the v10, vault firms keeping small classes...

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:05 pm

Yield data at CLS for highly-ranked or otherwise selective firms:

Boise, Schiller (NY, Lit): 0%
Cleary (NY): 56%
Covington (NY): 100%
Covington (DC): 100%
Cravath (NY): 75%
DPW (NY): 48%
Debevoise (NY): 25%
Gibson (LA): 100%
Gibson (NY): 38%
Irell (LA): 71%
Kirkland (NY, non-IP): 60%
Munger (LA): 0%
Paul Weiss (NY): 35%
Quinn (NY): 0%
Ropes (Boston): 67%
Simpson Thacher (NY): 33%
Skadden (NY): 50%
SullCrom (NY): 28%
Susman: 100%
Wachtell: 50%
Weil (NY): 20%




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