Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

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Doritos
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby Doritos » Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:18 pm

romothesavior wrote:
Doritos wrote:How do people pay for the summer? If you are working for free somewhere you presumably have rent in the place you go to law school, rent @ the new place, food, bills, etc. and 0 income.


Stipend from the school.


Cool. Does anyone know if these are widely available or do I have to be a superstar student to get one?

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romothesavior
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby romothesavior » Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:18 pm

Doritos wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
Doritos wrote:How do people pay for the summer? If you are working for free somewhere you presumably have rent in the place you go to law school, rent @ the new place, food, bills, etc. and 0 income.


Stipend from the school.


Cool. Does anyone know if these are widely available or do I have to be a superstar student to get one?


Depends on the school. At my school, we get them for doing unpaid public interest. Not sure how it works at other places.

phoenixsoars
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby phoenixsoars » Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:22 pm

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Last edited by phoenixsoars on Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:36 pm

First off, I am not saying that OP has a real chance at working for pay this summer. But the 1L firm jobs DO exist. I know, as I had one. If you have ties to a smaller market without very many law schools that naturally feed into it, you just might be able to land one. Mine, for example, only has one law school. And it has a very small class.

Just don't bank on one of those jobs materializing. Getting one has more to do with luck than anything else (even when you are at a T14), as I am the first to admit.

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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:48 pm

You'll probably be working for free but not 60 hours a week. I did a 1 or 2 day a week internship at legal aid. Not only was it a great experience, but it made for great resume fodder, and no one reading my resume knows that it was only part time. That left plenty of time for other stuff (some trips, a part-time non-legal job, etc.)
Look, the whole law school thing is an investment. You're investing tuition and 3 years of your life. Your summer jobs/internships are PART OF YOUR EDUCATION. They're part of what you're investing. A few people will get paid their 1L summer. Bonus for them. Most won't. But it's a VITAL part of your education, and must be done if you want to be able to get a paying legal job at some point.
So if all this mean that you take it "unlubed" ....well.....you're just gonna have to learn to squeal like a pig!

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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:01 pm

I'm not trying to detract from the OP's main concerns, but I'm curious about the odds for patent law applicants with engineering backgrounds.

Trying to stay anonymous, but what if I go to HYS, graduated in EE summa cum laude from a top 3 public for UG, have an MSEE from MIT/Stanford, and worked for 2-3 years at a Fortune 500 semiconductor company? I certainly don't feel entitled to anything and feel just as iffy as anyone else, but it would definitely be nice to hear from someone who's been through it before.

kthxbye

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Bosque
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby Bosque » Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm not trying to detract from the OP's main concerns, but I'm curious about the odds for patent law applicants with engineering backgrounds.

Trying to stay anonymous, but what if I go to HYS, graduated in EE summa cum laude from a top 3 public for UG, have an MSEE from MIT/Stanford, and worked for 2-3 years at a Fortune 500 semiconductor company? I certainly don't feel entitled to anything and feel just as iffy as anyone else, but it would definitely be nice to hear from someone who's been through it before.

kthxbye


Dude, if you are real, you don't need to be asking for advice on here.

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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:49 pm

Bosque wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm not trying to detract from the OP's main concerns, but I'm curious about the odds for patent law applicants with engineering backgrounds.

Trying to stay anonymous, but what if I go to HYS, graduated in EE summa cum laude from a top 3 public for UG, have an MSEE from MIT/Stanford, and worked for 2-3 years at a Fortune 500 semiconductor company? I certainly don't feel entitled to anything and feel just as iffy as anyone else, but it would definitely be nice to hear from someone who's been through it before.

kthxbye


Dude, if you are real, you don't need to be asking for advice on here.


Well I did just switch careers, so I can't say I know exactly how marketable I am in this arena...

I'm sorry if this comes off as a flame, I'm trying to be as apologetic and polite as possible, but obviously I still managed to offend the user named "Dood" to warrant those kind wishes from him, which he so bravely deleted before the more sensible readers of this board could read them.

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dood
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby dood » Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:54 pm

...
Last edited by dood on Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm not trying to detract from the OP's main concerns, but I'm curious about the odds for patent law applicants with engineering backgrounds.

Trying to stay anonymous, but what if I go to HYS, graduated in EE summa cum laude from a top 3 public for UG, have an MSEE from MIT/Stanford, and worked for 2-3 years at a Fortune 500 semiconductor company? I certainly don't feel entitled to anything and feel just as iffy as anyone else, but it would definitely be nice to hear from someone who's been through it before.

kthxbye


I have those credentials except the HYS and MIT/Stanford (so a bit below you in terms of institutional credentials) and I worked for free. I have a BS, MS, work experience in the semiconductor industry.

It seems like there's a saturation of EEs going to law school nowadays. I think that you should prepare the ego for a hit.

Honestly, I feel that you need to disclose your gender and ethnicity for a better idea of your chances. In my opinion, ethnicity and gender are very important for legal opportunities. You just can't look at credentials.

HamDel
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby HamDel » Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:33 pm

I think you should probably reexamine your belief that you deserve to be paid for your 1L summer based on two things:

1. This thread is titled "Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please." Only literate lawyers get paid.
2. Almost everyone at T14 schools, HYSCCN included, works for free/on a public interest stipend 1L summer. Most paying employers just aren't interested in taking a bunch of 1Ls, no matter where they came from. Paying 1L summers are hard to come by for everyone, and a school ranked 40-60 isn't going to impress anybody.

ruski
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby ruski » Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:46 pm

look for in-house gigs. most if not all of those internships pay. some pretty decently. they are pretty rare and hard to get, but not impossible. i managed to snag one (median from CCN)

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby OperaSoprano » Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:23 pm

phoenixsoars wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
Doritos wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
Stipend from the school.


Cool. Does anyone know if these are widely available or do I have to be a superstar student to get one?


Depends on the school. At my school, we get them for doing unpaid public interest. Not sure how it works at other places.


Some schools are very generous with these, but others have limited funding and so there is a competitive application process. They usually also require public interest work, and what constitutes public interest work may vary based on the school as well.


This. Most schools that don't have a ton of funding will have an organization that makes grants to students for living expenses, provided they hit a certain number of public interest hours. I was incredibly lucky to get a stipend from my school's group, and I would recommend researching this to anyone considering PI. The other thing I've seen people do is borrow COL to take summer courses, in addition to whatever else they are doing. This obviously will add to your debt, however, so it's not worthwhile unless there are summer courses you would take anyway.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:58 pm

This thread is ridiculous. OP, you're going to get your ass handed to you on a platter.

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thrillhouse
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby thrillhouse » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I go to a school ranked 40 - 60 in a major metropolitan area.

Many of my peers and upperclassmen say I should expect to work for free my first summer . . . is this normal? Do I really have to take it un-lubed and work for free? I have a masters, and think putting in 60 hours a week for a bullet point on a resume is bullshit.

Also, it appears most individuals at my school work as clerks for no-name judges their first summer. Again, for a school ranked similarly to mine, is this fairly normal? I have as much interest in a vasectomy as I do in working in public interest. If I must work for free I'd rather be a coffee boy at JonesDay than be a clerk for some over worked district judge.

Also, most of my peers say our CDO is one of the best in our part of the country. Thus far into my law school career, it appears like all they do is push PI PI PI all the time. All the events thus far have been PI related. Same with other schools or am I alone on this one?

Thanks for your responses!


It's not too late to quit law school and pursue a Ph.D. in whatever you got the master's in. Unless you get incredibly lucky, you're never going to get the kind of job you seem to want regardless of whether it's this summer, next summer, or any time after that. That's the harsh reality of going to a school in the 40-60--especially if it's in a major metropolitan area. At least the Ph.D. won't leave you with the kind of debt law school will (if it leaves you with any at all).

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BruceWayne
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby BruceWayne » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:19 pm

Not to start a race war but it seems like half of the URM 2L's I meet here at UVA got 1L firms jobs (though often in "secondary" markets, but really who cares). Is it really THAT much easier to get a 1L firm job as a URM, or am I just meeting some really lucky URMs?

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Ersatz Haderach
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby Ersatz Haderach » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:27 pm

thrillhouse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I go to a school ranked 40 - 60 in a major metropolitan area.

Many of my peers and upperclassmen say I should expect to work for free my first summer . . . is this normal? Do I really have to take it un-lubed and work for free? I have a masters, and think putting in 60 hours a week for a bullet point on a resume is bullshit.

Also, it appears most individuals at my school work as clerks for no-name judges their first summer. Again, for a school ranked similarly to mine, is this fairly normal? I have as much interest in a vasectomy as I do in working in public interest. If I must work for free I'd rather be a coffee boy at JonesDay than be a clerk for some over worked district judge.

Also, most of my peers say our CDO is one of the best in our part of the country. Thus far into my law school career, it appears like all they do is push PI PI PI all the time. All the events thus far have been PI related. Same with other schools or am I alone on this one?

Thanks for your responses!


It's not too late to quit law school and pursue a Ph.D. in whatever you got the master's in. Unless you get incredibly lucky, you're never going to get the kind of job you seem to want regardless of whether it's this summer, next summer, or any time after that. That's the harsh reality of going to a school in the 40-60--especially if it's in a major metropolitan area. At least the Ph.D. won't leave you with the kind of debt law school will (if it leaves you with any at all).


If the OP is in New York, Chicago, etc, yes, he is probably being rather unrealistic. The sheer amount of hustling, hardworking students from higher-ranked schools will outdo him unless he also does well and hustles and gets a little lucky. It happens, but I don't think many people should bother 'expecting' to get paid. I know students at a T2 who have gotten paid decently doing this and that (substantive legal work), but none who landed actual summer associate positions or other high paid positions. If you end up top of your class, if your master's is in something that someone happens to really like, who knows? The answer is to get out there and find every possibility that even looks decent, and apply to many of them. Don't pick three; pick thirty. Then pick some more and go for it. You have to keep an open mind.

If OP is in a smaller market without tons of T20 students flooding in to fight for positions, he might have a shot. But OP, you're looking at this the wrong way. Getting paid? Who cares? This is 1L summer. Get experience. Go ahead and apply for the paid positions you want, but apply to something you'll enjoy or benefit from in case things don't work out. Use this either as a stepping stone to something for 2L or as a chance to broaden your experience/specialty.

I'll add this from a personal angle: Since day one, I have been pouncing on interesting people at events at my school and giving them a quick rundown on A) what I want to do and B) what I've done and sometimes that's led to further networking opportunities. It's far too early to tell if any of the networking will actually lead to a 1L summer gig (unpaid, 99% probability) but I've had some promising leads and learned some things about the market around here. More contacts are always good.

tysmiller
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby tysmiller » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:37 pm

I was at a school in the 30s and worked as a research assistant for professors. The school gave $4k in work study, so while I did not profit very much, the summer was not a net negative financially. Also, I believe that the improvement to my research and writing skills were marketable for my 2L summer, and it was a pretty relaxed way to decompress after a stressful year. Besides, very few people had anything better going for them. If I were you, I would get friendly with a professor or two and consider this route.

Also, I was an EE undergrad at a "T14" UG. This will get not get you biglaw 1L summer, and unless you have the first year grades to back it up, nothing 2L summer either. IP might give you a bit better odds, but do not expect any guarantees.

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rbgrocio
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby rbgrocio » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:43 pm

I got a paid job my first summer, and I go to a tier 4. However, most ppl work for free, and you should be willing to do so, or else, as someone else mentioned before, you won't get a job your second year. Ppl who don't work their first summer have a more difficult time getting a job later on, of course. It is the nature of law school, my friend. Also, keep in mind that if you are good, the firm may start paying you soon after you start working. You will also get recommendation and meet ppl that will help you get other jobs.

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romothesavior
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby romothesavior » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:45 pm

Just curious... how does one go about becoming a research assistant? Just ask the profs?

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rbgrocio
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby rbgrocio » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:47 pm

romothesavior wrote:Just curious... how does one go about becoming a research assistant? Just ask the profs?

ask/apply if they send an email that they are looking for research assistants/be really good in a particular professor's class and they will ask you to become their assistant.

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tome
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby tome » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:55 pm

I would have posted "obvious flame is obvious", but apparently it isn't. Well played OP, well played.

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thrillhouse
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby thrillhouse » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:57 pm

BruceWayne wrote:Not to start a race war but it seems like half of the URM 2L's I meet here at UVA got 1L firms jobs (though often in "secondary" markets, but really who cares). Is it really THAT much easier to get a 1L firm job as a URM, or am I just meeting some really lucky URMs?


It is THAT much easier owing to the copious diversity fellowships firms set aside for 1L summer. It would be even easier than THAT much easier for an URM from a T14 like UVA.

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BruceWayne
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby BruceWayne » Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:54 pm

thrillhouse wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:Not to start a race war but it seems like half of the URM 2L's I meet here at UVA got 1L firms jobs (though often in "secondary" markets, but really who cares). Is it really THAT much easier to get a 1L firm job as a URM, or am I just meeting some really lucky URMs?


It is THAT much easier owing to the copious diversity fellowships firms set aside for 1L summer. It would be even easier than THAT much easier for an URM from a T14 like UVA.


LOL I understand that there are more options nonetheless it's a bit surprising. Many on here make it sound like getting a 1L summer firm job as a non URM is nearly impossible; I guess it just seemed a bit hard to believe that it's nearly impossible for non URMs to land these spots, (which is what this thread makes it sound like) while about half of the URM's I know here landed one.

Zar
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby Zar » Sat Oct 09, 2010 12:13 am

romothesavior wrote:Just curious... how does one go about becoming a research assistant? Just ask the profs?


You can ask your profs during the semester if they're going to need anyone next summer. Alternatively, since I know you're at WUSTL, keep an eye on the Law Daily, as they post RA openings on a somewhat frequent basis. I think there might have been one there this week.

Also, come spring there will be email blasts from the CSO saying Prof. so-and-so is looking for a summer research assistant.




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