Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

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Anonymous User
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Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:11 am

I go to a school ranked 40 - 60 in a major metropolitan area.

Many of my peers and upperclassmen say I should expect to work for free my first summer . . . is this normal? Do I really have to take it un-lubed and work for free? I have a masters, and think putting in 60 hours a week for a bullet point on a resume is bullshit.

Also, it appears most individuals at my school work as clerks for no-name judges their first summer. Again, for a school ranked similarly to mine, is this fairly normal? I have as much interest in a vasectomy as I do in working in public interest. If I must work for free I'd rather be a coffee boy at JonesDay than be a clerk for some over worked district judge.

Also, most of my peers say our CDO is one of the best in our part of the country. Thus far into my law school career, it appears like all they do is push PI PI PI all the time. All the events thus far have been PI related. Same with other schools or am I alone on this one?

Thanks for your responses!

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D. H2Oman
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby D. H2Oman » Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:17 am

Anonymous User wrote:I go to a school ranked 40 - 60 in a major metropolitan area.

Many of my peers and upperclassmen say I should expect to work for free my first summer . . . is this normal? Do I really have to take it un-lubed and work for free? I have a masters, and think putting in 60 hours a week for a bullet point on a resume is bullshit.

Also, it appears most individuals at my school work as clerks for no-name judges their first summer. Again, for a school ranked similarly to mine, is this fairly normal? I have as much interest in a vasectomy as I do in working in public interest. If I must work for free I'd rather be a coffee boy at JonesDay than be a clerk for some over worked district judge.

Also, most of my peers say our CDO is one of the best in our part of the country. Thus far into my law school career, it appears like all they do is push PI PI PI all the time. All the events thus far have been PI related. Same with other schools or am I alone on this one?

Thanks for your responses!



You'll be working for free bro. Definitely, and you better do it. Otherwise you'll also be working for free 2L summer and then you'll be getting coffee 3L summer and beyond. (though that might be unavoidable as it is)

Anonymous User
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:18 am

I used to earn almost $100k as an engineer before law school. I worked for free my first summer. It's normal.

A lot of people do get paid, but sometimes the interesting positions for a 1L summer are unpaid. Also, the pursuit of an internship is so competitive that you tend to apply to paid and unpaid positions and take what you can get as soon as possible.

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RVP11
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby RVP11 » Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:15 am

Anonymous User wrote:I go to a school ranked 40 - 60 in a major metropolitan area.

Many of my peers and upperclassmen say I should expect to work for free my first summer . . . is this normal? Do I really have to take it un-lubed and work for free? I have a masters, and think putting in 60 hours a week for a bullet point on a resume is bullshit.

Also, it appears most individuals at my school work as clerks for no-name judges their first summer. Again, for a school ranked similarly to mine, is this fairly normal? I have as much interest in a vasectomy as I do in working in public interest. If I must work for free I'd rather be a coffee boy at JonesDay than be a clerk for some over worked district judge.

Also, most of my peers say our CDO is one of the best in our part of the country. Thus far into my law school career, it appears like all they do is push PI PI PI all the time. All the events thus far have been PI related. Same with other schools or am I alone on this one?

Thanks for your responses!


Intern for a judge, if you can. You won't be paid, but you also won't work 60 hours a week. Maybe half that?

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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:43 am

I'm surprised that you think a school ranked 40-60 entitles you to getting a paid job or clerking for a well-known judge during your 1L year. There's a lot of competition out there, and that includes the 39-59 schools ranked better than yours, as well as the kids from lower-ranked schools in your market with great grades.

Just suck it up for the summer. There are opportunities for pay though, like getting an SA gig which is next to impossible (but look for diversity or other fellowship opportunities if you qualify), certain government jobs, and some smaller firms.

Anonymous User
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:44 am

Anonymous User wrote:I'm surprised that you think a school ranked 40-60 entitles you to getting a paid job or clerking for a well-known judge during your 1L year. There's a lot of competition out there, and that includes the 39-59 schools ranked better than yours, as well as the kids from lower-ranked schools in your market with great grades.

Just suck it up for the summer. There are opportunities for pay though, like getting an SA gig which is next to impossible (but look for diversity or other fellowship opportunities if you qualify), certain government jobs, and some smaller firms.

Word. Probably 90% of my T6 worked for free 1L summer.

BobSacamano
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby BobSacamano » Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:17 am

Try to find a job with a professor or with a small/mid-sized firm if you want money. A bunch of friends of mine were paid decently doing PI work last summer and they enjoyed their experience.

After one year of law school you have no practical legal skills and bring no value to anybody so I'm not sure why you think you should be paid. Sorry, but that's the reality. Your "no name" judges comment is pretty laughable as well. What do you think you're getting into?

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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:30 am

What about working for free your second summer if nothing else comes through? It's looking that way for me, but I'd rather go be a waitress and make some money, or travel for a few months, this summer than work for free at legal aid (I have a job guaranteed post-graduation so not worried about that.)

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Doritos
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby Doritos » Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:35 am

How do people pay for the summer? If you are working for free somewhere you presumably have rent in the place you go to law school, rent @ the new place, food, bills, etc. and 0 income.

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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:39 am

Sometimes it's worth it. For my 1L summer, I went to a US Attorney's Office instead of a firm that would have paid $3,100 a week. Like you, I never thought I would be interested in anything other than corporate law, which is precisely why my friends pushed me to apply for some government positions. As a result of the summer experience, my outlook on life and career underwent a dramatic change.

But more importantly, unless you are top 1% in your class or a URM, you will probably end up working for free.

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rayiner
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby rayiner » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:33 am

You'll probably end up working for free at graduation too. HTH.

Also, LOL @ masters. Unless it's an MSEE, GTFO.

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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:44 am

rayiner wrote:You'll probably end up working for free at graduation too. HTH.

Also, LOL @ masters. Unless it's an MSEE, GTFO.


...

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby Big Shrimpin » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:51 am

Anonymous User wrote:I go to a school ranked 40 - 60 in a major metropolitan area.

Many of my peers and upperclassmen say I should expect to work for free my first summer . . . is this normal? Do I really have to take it un-lubed and work for free? I have a masters, and think putting in 60 hours a week for a bullet point on a resume is bullshit.

Also, it appears most individuals at my school work as clerks for no-name judges their first summer. Again, for a school ranked similarly to mine, is this fairly normal? I have as much interest in a vasectomy as I do in working in public interest. If I must work for free I'd rather be a coffee boy at JonesDay than be a clerk for some over worked district judge.

Also, most of my peers say our CDO is one of the best in our part of the country. Thus far into my law school career, it appears like all they do is push PI PI PI all the time. All the events thus far have been PI related. Same with other schools or am I alone on this one?

Thanks for your responses!


Hook, line, and sinker?

OP: get off TLS and hit the books. If you don't land near the top 10%, you've got virtually a 0% chance at landing a job that (judging from you post) you'd like. Sorry :?

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rayiner
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby rayiner » Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:43 am

Anonymous User wrote:
rayiner wrote:You'll probably end up working for free at graduation too. HTH.

Also, LOL @ masters. Unless it's an MSEE, GTFO.


...


What utterly useless subject do you have a masters in?

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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:52 am

Anonymous User wrote:I go to a school ranked 40 - 60 in a major metropolitan area.

Many of my peers and upperclassmen say I should expect to work for free my first summer . . . is this normal? Do I really have to take it un-lubed and work for free? I have a masters, and think putting in 60 hours a week for a bullet point on a resume is bullshit.

Also, it appears most individuals at my school work as clerks for no-name judges their first summer. Again, for a school ranked similarly to mine, is this fairly normal? I have as much interest in a vasectomy as I do in working in public interest. If I must work for free I'd rather be a coffee boy at JonesDay than be a clerk for some over worked district judge.

Also, most of my peers say our CDO is one of the best in our part of the country. Thus far into my law school career, it appears like all they do is push PI PI PI all the time. All the events thus far have been PI related. Same with other schools or am I alone on this one?

Thanks for your responses!


Yes. I'm at Harvard and the big majority of 1Ls here work for free their first summer.

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FlightoftheEarls
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:53 am

rayiner wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
rayiner wrote:You'll probably end up working for free at graduation too. HTH.

Also, LOL @ masters. Unless it's an MSEE, GTFO.


...


What utterly useless subject do you have a masters in?

As much as it sucks to hear, Rayiner is right. The only other masters I can potentially see employers enjoying is in economics if you're aiming for antitrust work. Apart from that (and even then), they probably won't care that much. If at all.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:57 am

1) Most unpaid legal internships don't make you work 60 hours a week. They know you're working unpaid and therefore they can't grind you to the bone quite so much. There are lots of ordinary 40-hour-per-week internships out there to do. They're almost all going to be public interest or judges, though; this is what almost everyone has to do their 1L year, because firms are just not hiring that many 1L summer associates anymore. And you can't go be an unpaid coffee boy for a firm because there are laws against for-profit organizations taking unpaid help, so scratch that out too. You're gonna have to do public interest because it builds legal experience and it's what you're likely to find right now.

2) If your school is ranked 40-60 and is in a major metropolitan area then it's very likely not to be the best school that feeds that area, and you're going to face stiff competition for jobs. I wouldn't expect to be paid huge money on graduation; even some people at T14s are having trouble finding jobs that pay market salary right now. You've got a shot at it, sure, if you land at the top of your class and make the right moves, but you really need to be aware that you may end up getting stuck in a job with long hours and low pay when you graduate. Don't feel entitled to a huge payday, at the summer internship or the post-school job level.

3) Having a masters doesn't really change things much at all, unless it's in engineering and can get you in at an IP firm. It's a bullet point plus on your resume, but you're still going to be rated by firms first and foremost by what school you're attending and second by your grades. Don't feel entitled to a huge payday because you have a masters degree.

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RVP11
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby RVP11 » Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:58 pm

Just came back to LOL at this thread again.

OP will probably have a tough time even getting a district court clerkship. My local district court was full of interns who were Law Review at the nearby T30. These judges received 100+ apps from the school so they just sifted through and interviewed the people with great grades.

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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:25 pm

RVP11 wrote:Just came back to LOL at this thread again.

OP will probably have a tough time even getting a district court clerkship. My local district court was full of interns who were Law Review at the nearby T30. These judges received 100+ apps from the school so they just sifted through and interviewed the people with great grades.


I interned for a federal judge back home in a medium-sized secondary market. He hired only t-14 students. One of my fellow interns was top 10% at a t-14 and found out she got onto law review at the end of the summer. The federal judge whose chambers was next to ours also only hired t-14 students, and his interns had no ties whatsoever to the secondary market. It's pretty competitive getting an unpaid district internship, even in secondary markets.

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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby Hoopster » Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:10 pm

I agree with the others that OP should expect to work 1L summer for free, unless OP could get a stipend from his/her law school. YLS and other top schools are pretty good about giving their students a stipend for an unpaid 1L summer job. I worked in PI in DC this past summer and received a very generous stipend.

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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby pu_golf88 » Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:39 pm

rayiner wrote:You'll probably end up working for free at graduation too. HTH.

Also, LOL @ masters. Unless it's an MSEE, GTFO.


Law schools seems to have made you cynical ray.

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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby phoenixsoars » Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:13 pm

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Last edited by phoenixsoars on Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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romothesavior
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby romothesavior » Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:14 pm

Doritos wrote:How do people pay for the summer? If you are working for free somewhere you presumably have rent in the place you go to law school, rent @ the new place, food, bills, etc. and 0 income.


Stipend from the school.

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romothesavior
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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby romothesavior » Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:16 pm

phoenixsoars wrote:You can (a) wait tables/tend bar


Unless you mean doing this as a way to supplement your other job, this would be really dumb. It is crucial to get legal experience during that summer.

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Re: Honesty in 1st year Summer Instership Please

Postby phoenixsoars » Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:17 pm

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Last edited by phoenixsoars on Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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