Future ADA's and Prosecutors

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deadhipsters
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Future ADA's and Prosecutors

Postby deadhipsters » Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:43 pm

How is everyone's employment prospects looking? I have heard that budget freezes in Seattle, Miami, and other major markets are greatly effecting upcoming graduates. Are people getting offers still, and if not, what are peoples back-up plans?

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spanktheduck
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Re: Future ADA's and Prosecutors

Postby spanktheduck » Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:56 pm

Ask this question again in 6 months. This is way too early for most DA offices to be giving offers

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edgarderby
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Re: Future ADA's and Prosecutors

Postby edgarderby » Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:17 pm

How does one even find these jobs? Anytime I write inquiry letters I never hear back. It seems like most just hire someone once a decade out of the local T4 school, based on the people that work at a lot of the offices I see.

ScaredWorkedBored
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Re: Future ADA's and Prosecutors

Postby ScaredWorkedBored » Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:37 pm

Usually the local school(s) will have an internship arrangement with the office. With a very few highly competitive exceptions, DA's offices care much more about motivation and work in the field than prestige or rank. Being an ADA can be a pretty bruising job, physically and emotionally.

As far as budget freezes - that's a real issue. Several of my friends did everything right for this career track and are totally frozen out because the state we are in has not approved any new ADA positions. And since it's government hiring (quantitative scores), a new grad has zero shot of beating out any level of experience for an existing position. The people who wanted to go the public defender route are in the same boat but they can at least try to get court appointments.

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Re: Future ADA's and Prosecutors

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:09 pm

I think the advice about 90% of offices hiring based on nepotism being legit as these used to be t2+ jobs (with a few exceptions for high-prestige areas), I am at UC D/H with top 25%/crim CALI/crim summer work/etc and I got flat out rejected from SF (the prestigious one) and other DAs literally told me "you know that we don't really care about grades, and the majority of our ppl come from the local t3/t4, we just want charismatic people who can convince a jury"

I don't know if he was calling me ugly or what lol, but it really kind of broke my spirit for this work. This is sadly ironic after his "if you are a DA doing your job right, you will never convict an innocent person; but if you are a PD doing your job right, you will let guilty people walk" speech, some DAs are living up to their unpopular reputation.

I have no idea what is going to happen when gov employers finally get back to me, you'd think I would be able to get a job somewhere, but its totally up in the air because of this bullshit and I have no idea what to do.

California apparently is having people work for free for a year and then they MIGHT get paid the second year at DA offices...

Back-up plan after spamming every crim prosection/gov position possible? Any defense work, then any other PI stuff (of course spamming firms but no hope there).

deadhipsters
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Re: Future ADA's and Prosecutors

Postby deadhipsters » Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:36 pm

Sorry to hear that. I wonder if leaving California would be a better option for you, given the severity of the states monetary problems.

I have also heard that in both NJ and NY the State Attorney's offices' are taking on unsalaried lawyers for full time positions. So it seems its just as bad on the East Coast.

deadhipsters
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Re: Future ADA's and Prosecutors

Postby deadhipsters » Mon Jan 03, 2011 12:04 pm

bump

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A'nold
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Re: Future ADA's and Prosecutors

Postby A'nold » Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:46 pm

I wonder if us big city law school grads will be able to find work as a prosecutor in, say, southwestern Montana or something....?

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underdawg
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Re: Future ADA's and Prosecutors

Postby underdawg » Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:31 am

A'nold wrote:I wonder if us big city law school grads will be able to find work as a prosecutor in, say, southwestern Montana or something....?

well if the charming juries thing is what DAs are looking for, it seems that people from podunk schools are better qualified. you even hear about this kinda stuff happening in other areas (i.e. patent litigation against foreign companies in podunk ass areas like texas, plaintiffs attorneys in podunk areas mispronouncing firm names to make them sound as jewish as possible, etc.). but the more i think about it, it sorta makes sense for DAs office to not go all weak in the knees for "big city law grads."

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A'nold
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Re: Future ADA's and Prosecutors

Postby A'nold » Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:35 pm

underdawg wrote:
A'nold wrote:I wonder if us big city law school grads will be able to find work as a prosecutor in, say, southwestern Montana or something....?

well if the charming juries thing is what DAs are looking for, it seems that people from podunk schools are better qualified. you even hear about this kinda stuff happening in other areas (i.e. patent litigation against foreign companies in podunk ass areas like texas, plaintiffs attorneys in podunk areas mispronouncing firm names to make them sound as jewish as possible, etc.). but the more i think about it, it sorta makes sense for DAs office to not go all weak in the knees for "big city law grads."


I like your take but I was more just thinking about a possible lack of competition? It seems like big city DA's are very competitive but po-dunk county positions are less competitive. I just wonder if there are some locations so disfavored that a t1 law school grad with good grades looking at getting into prosecution might take you on if you can't get a position in an area you'd better prefer.

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underdawg
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Re: Future ADA's and Prosecutors

Postby underdawg » Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:52 pm

im sure every podunk district has a fine number of top podunk law school grads vying for that job. plus the offices are gonna be tiny. plus, unless you are a very good liar, everyone will know exactly why you are vying for the podunk da job. and the more podunk the district, i bet the less complex the crimes will tend to be. plus the mere fact that you think a "big city" law school gives you some kind of edge (since there are innumerable horrific law schools in big cities) makes me think that this is a weird proposition. and the mere fact that you never hear of this happening makes me think it never actually does happen. certainly even very top, very big city law grads would prefer that kind of job to nothing at all...

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Re: Future ADA's and Prosecutors

Postby Voyager » Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:50 pm

underdawg wrote:im sure every podunk district has a fine number of top podunk law school grads vying for that job. plus the offices are gonna be tiny. plus, unless you are a very good liar, everyone will know exactly why you are vying for the podunk da job. and the more podunk the district, i bet the less complex the crimes will tend to be. plus the mere fact that you think a "big city" law school gives you some kind of edge (since there are innumerable horrific law schools in big cities) makes me think that this is a weird proposition. and the mere fact that you never hear of this happening makes me think it never actually does happen. certainly even very top, very big city law grads would prefer that kind of job to nothing at all...


You know, the other issue is that many DA offices around the country simply don't hire out of law school.

It really helps to have a connection to a local ADA or, better yet, a current or former bureau chief. You guys should look into that.

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A'nold
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Re: Future ADA's and Prosecutors

Postby A'nold » Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:07 pm

underdawg wrote:im sure every podunk district has a fine number of top podunk law school grads vying for that job. plus the offices are gonna be tiny. plus, unless you are a very good liar, everyone will know exactly why you are vying for the podunk da job. and the more podunk the district, i bet the less complex the crimes will tend to be. plus the mere fact that you think a "big city" law school gives you some kind of edge (since there are innumerable horrific law schools in big cities) makes me think that this is a weird proposition. and the mere fact that you never hear of this happening makes me think it never actually does happen. certainly even very top, very big city law grads would prefer that kind of job to nothing at all...


I really did just use "big city" to talk about the competition. Actually, most "podunk" people hate big city people, at least those that I have met.

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A'nold
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Re: Future ADA's and Prosecutors

Postby A'nold » Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:13 pm

To move on, how does one ever obtain an ADA position if you have to "know an ADA or DA" or "have experience?" You have to start somewhere. Does externing during the year count as experience?

Voyager
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Re: Future ADA's and Prosecutors

Postby Voyager » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:02 pm

Oh, dude, sorry if I implied I thought that you HAD to know someone. Not at all.

Good grades and knowing how to nail the very specific interviews that DA offices give is pretty huge as well.

That said, it always helps to know someone and not because they will help you get hired (frankly, I don't think knowing an ADA is going to help convince the DA to actually extend an offer). Knowing someone gives you an inside track on how to prepare for the interview. Don't discount how tricky these interviews are: they are screening a ton of people and have some very specific tests they give you.

Having some prosecution experience as an intern demonstrates that you know what the job entails, that you are committed to public service and prosecution and gives you interviewing material that showcases you doing prosecutorial work.

All of that is a huge advantage.

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NZA
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Re: Future ADA's and Prosecutors

Postby NZA » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:08 pm

I used to work at the KCPAO (King County PAO) as an undergrad, and I know that at least for 2008 and I think 2009, they didn't hire any of the externs (or if they did, they only hired a very small few).

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A'nold
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Re: Future ADA's and Prosecutors

Postby A'nold » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:16 pm

Voyager wrote:Oh, dude, sorry if I implied I thought that you HAD to know someone. Not at all.

Good grades and knowing how to nail the very specific interviews that DA offices give is pretty huge as well.

That said, it always helps to know someone and not because they will help you get hired (frankly, I don't think knowing an ADA is going to help convince the DA to actually extend an offer). Knowing someone gives you an inside track on how to prepare for the interview. Don't discount how tricky these interviews are: they are screening a ton of people and have some very specific tests they give you.

Having some prosecution experience as an intern demonstrates that you know what the job entails, that you are committed to public service and prosecution and gives you interviewing material that showcases you doing prosecutorial work.

All of that is a huge advantage.


Thanks Voyager, I always appreciate the information you give on here (I still even quote your reasoning on a gun control thread you posted on another website years ago, believe it or not :) ).


I just don't want to be hitting my head against a brick wall trying to get into something that is impossible without connections. I go to a solid t1 school that has an outstanding regional rep about 4 states wide and am in a pretty small class. The way this thread was going it kind of made me feel like you have to have connections and graduate at the top of a t14 to get some kind of entry level county ADA job.

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A'nold
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Re: Future ADA's and Prosecutors

Postby A'nold » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:19 pm

NZA wrote:I used to work at the KCPAO (King County PAO) as an undergrad, and I know that at least for 2008 and I think 2009, they didn't hire any of the externs (or if they did, they only hired a very small few).


I've seen job postings for areas like Snohomish and as far out as Bend, OR. Thus my inquiry about "non-big city counties and cities." I would actually prefer working somewhere other than King County where the COL is lower and the environment is more relaxed.

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NZA
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Re: Future ADA's and Prosecutors

Postby NZA » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:33 pm

A'nold wrote:
NZA wrote:I used to work at the KCPAO (King County PAO) as an undergrad, and I know that at least for 2008 and I think 2009, they didn't hire any of the externs (or if they did, they only hired a very small few).


I've seen job postings for areas like Snohomish and as far out as Bend, OR. Thus my inquiry about "non-big city counties and cities." I would actually prefer working somewhere other than King County where the COL is lower and the environment is more relaxed.


Yeah, no doubt. Less populated counties like Snohomish or Thurston, etc., probably won't be hiring as regularly, though? TBH, I have no experience outside of what I've seen in King and Spokane Counties.

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uwb09
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Re: Future ADA's and Prosecutors

Postby uwb09 » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:18 pm

A'nold wrote:To move on, how does one ever obtain an ADA position if you have to "know an ADA or DA" or "have experience?" You have to start somewhere. Does externing during the year count as experience?

Right now working as an ADA is prob at the top of my dream job list, and from what I am gathering, is that it might not be the worst thing (if you can find it), if you start off as a public defender.

I'm from the Seattle area, and contemplating coming back when I'm done with school, and over break noticed a couple public defender job openings in Kitsap County for what it's worth. Maybe that would be the best way to work your way into an ADA position?

Voyager
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Re: Future ADA's and Prosecutors

Postby Voyager » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:28 pm

A'nold wrote:
Voyager wrote:Oh, dude, sorry if I implied I thought that you HAD to know someone. Not at all.

Good grades and knowing how to nail the very specific interviews that DA offices give is pretty huge as well.

That said, it always helps to know someone and not because they will help you get hired (frankly, I don't think knowing an ADA is going to help convince the DA to actually extend an offer). Knowing someone gives you an inside track on how to prepare for the interview. Don't discount how tricky these interviews are: they are screening a ton of people and have some very specific tests they give you.

Having some prosecution experience as an intern demonstrates that you know what the job entails, that you are committed to public service and prosecution and gives you interviewing material that showcases you doing prosecutorial work.

All of that is a huge advantage.


Thanks Voyager, I always appreciate the information you give on here (I still even quote your reasoning on a gun control thread you posted on another website years ago, believe it or not :) ).


I just don't want to be hitting my head against a brick wall trying to get into something that is impossible without connections. I go to a solid t1 school that has an outstanding regional rep about 4 states wide and am in a pretty small class. The way this thread was going it kind of made me feel like you have to have connections and graduate at the top of a t14 to get some kind of entry level county ADA job.


No no no. Sorry about that. You certainly don't need to rely on nepotism. But it does help and you SHOULD find some ADA types to talk to about the interview process and the job... you'll do much better. As your career services about alumns. That is what I did.

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A'nold
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Re: Future ADA's and Prosecutors

Postby A'nold » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:38 pm

Voyager wrote:
A'nold wrote:
Voyager wrote:Oh, dude, sorry if I implied I thought that you HAD to know someone. Not at all.

Good grades and knowing how to nail the very specific interviews that DA offices give is pretty huge as well.

That said, it always helps to know someone and not because they will help you get hired (frankly, I don't think knowing an ADA is going to help convince the DA to actually extend an offer). Knowing someone gives you an inside track on how to prepare for the interview. Don't discount how tricky these interviews are: they are screening a ton of people and have some very specific tests they give you.

Having some prosecution experience as an intern demonstrates that you know what the job entails, that you are committed to public service and prosecution and gives you interviewing material that showcases you doing prosecutorial work.

All of that is a huge advantage.


Thanks Voyager, I always appreciate the information you give on here (I still even quote your reasoning on a gun control thread you posted on another website years ago, believe it or not :) ).


I just don't want to be hitting my head against a brick wall trying to get into something that is impossible without connections. I go to a solid t1 school that has an outstanding regional rep about 4 states wide and am in a pretty small class. The way this thread was going it kind of made me feel like you have to have connections and graduate at the top of a t14 to get some kind of entry level county ADA job.


No no no. Sorry about that. You certainly don't need to rely on nepotism. But it does help and you SHOULD find some ADA types to talk to about the interview process and the job... you'll do much better. As your career services about alumns. That is what I did.


Thanks again man. :)

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A'nold
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Re: Future ADA's and Prosecutors

Postby A'nold » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:39 pm

uwb09 wrote:
A'nold wrote:To move on, how does one ever obtain an ADA position if you have to "know an ADA or DA" or "have experience?" You have to start somewhere. Does externing during the year count as experience?

Right now working as an ADA is prob at the top of my dream job list, and from what I am gathering, is that it might not be the worst thing (if you can find it), if you start off as a public defender.

I'm from the Seattle area, and contemplating coming back when I'm done with school, and over break noticed a couple public defender job openings in Kitsap County for what it's worth. Maybe that would be the best way to work your way into an ADA position?


That sounds cool but I've heard that DA offices don't like applicants that have worked as a PD.....true/false anyone?

Anonymous User
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Re: Future ADA's and Prosecutors

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:56 am

My experience is that DAs offices actually value experience at a public defender, but public defenders don't like to hire people who have worked for DA's offices

Voyager
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Re: Future ADA's and Prosecutors

Postby Voyager » Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:02 am

Anonymous User wrote:My experience is that DAs offices actually value experience at a public defender, but public defenders don't like to hire people who have worked for DA's offices

That was my impression too.

PDs are rather rabid and militant regarding their little cause even at the Federal level. They take shit very personally. ADAs have a much more even handed view of the system.

That said, you will need to be able to explain your PD experience. Something like, I believe in justice and everyone deserving representation. I aslo learned a lot at the PD office. That said, I think that prosecution is a much better fit for me because XYZ.




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