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aph
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:26 pm

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Postby aph » Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:33 pm

Wow. I'm pretty miffed that someone took away my anonymity on a post that included specific information naming firms and identifying information about myself, and where I was on topic and civil. I was mildly critical of the firms so it was important that I remained anonymous. This was without warning and even any mention that a mod was doing it. Was this really necessary?

I guess this serves as a warning to anyone who posts about sensitive information.
Last edited by aph on Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Pablo Ramirez
Posts: 161
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:01 pm

Re: Getting dinged AFTER withdrawing from firm?

Postby Pablo Ramirez » Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:48 pm

aph wrote:You know, you let the recruiter know, so to not waste their time or energy further, that you've accepted an offer elsewhere. Then a week or so later you get a ding letter from that firm.

This has happened to me twice, where both letters were dated after I had withdrawn (one more than a week after). Culprits were Katten & Paul Hastings Chicago. This seems to me to be in pretty bad taste. Happen to anyone else?


You should wipe your ass with those letters and mail them right back.

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como
Posts: 512
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Re: Getting dinged AFTER withdrawing from firm?

Postby como » Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:31 am

My guess is that your name goes from a list of "candidates" to a list of "no longer candidates". Each person on the "no longer candidates" list probably gets the same letter, regardless of the reason why he or she is on the list.
Last edited by como on Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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180orbust
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Re: Getting dinged AFTER withdrawing from firm?

Postby 180orbust » Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:09 am

I haven't had that happen to me, but I imagine that the firm is just trying to create a clear paper trail in case it ever has to prove that it never gave you an offer. Law firms are paranoid about confirming things in writing.

aph
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:26 pm

Re: Getting dinged AFTER withdrawing from firm?

Postby aph » Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:21 am

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Last edited by aph on Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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reasonable_man
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Re: Getting dinged AFTER withdrawing from firm?

Postby reasonable_man » Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:04 am

This was really a big deal for you? You really believe that one day that firm may be thirsting for your lateral movement to their firm, so much so that this would ever matter to them?

Good lawyers follow up in writing on everything (and I mean everything). I see nothing wrong with this practice. Grow up and be happy you have offers of employment.

aph
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:26 pm

Re: Getting dinged AFTER withdrawing from firm?

Postby aph » Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:38 am

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Last edited by aph on Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Stanford4Me
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Re: Getting dinged AFTER withdrawing from firm?

Postby Stanford4Me » Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:43 am

........... :roll:

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reasonable_man
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Re: Getting dinged AFTER withdrawing from firm?

Postby reasonable_man » Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:05 am

aph wrote:Firms do care about the impression they make on students as they talk to other students, and as potential laterals. Following up in writing is one thing, sending a non-responsive form letter (especially after corresponding with the candidate directly--"we're sorry to hear that, keep in touch, where are you going?" etc.) is bad form. A responsive follow up is one thing, a "you didn't ding us, we dinged YOU" letter turns people off. This was confirmed to me by a hiring partner of a major firm during a casual conversation about recruiting practices, typos, etc.

I only bring it up because it happened again yesterday and I wanted to see if it was common, and to make the point that it would be nice if firms weren't careless in their communications with us, considering we lose sleep over our own typos. Wishful thinking, but does it merit rudeness? I don't really care, it is just a minor annoyance. I'm sorry you are upset about something, but there is no need to be rude. I've offered a lot of anonymous information here over the course of the hiring season and am frequently put off by attacks on people over trivial matters. If you don't have something nice or helpful to say, don't say anything. You risk turning people off and making this board less useful overall.




Are you actually serious?


And I think that possibly, over the course of my 2000+ posts, all of which were after I graduated LS, I may have offered a few tid-bits of helpful advice here ant there. I just happen to think you're being a bit of a douche, so I called you on it.

aph
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:26 pm

Re: Getting dinged AFTER withdrawing from firm?

Postby aph » Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:09 am

Good luck to you in all your endeavors.

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reasonable_man
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Re: Getting dinged AFTER withdrawing from firm?

Postby reasonable_man » Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:37 am

aph wrote:Good luck to you in all your endeavors.


And to you as well kind sir!

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Bosque
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Re: Getting dinged AFTER withdrawing from firm?

Postby Bosque » Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:11 pm

I don't really understand what Reasonable Man's issue with the OP is. I, like the OP, find this practice reprehensible. They are not "following up in writing." These letters are something completely different. And firms do care what law students think of them. Pretty much every recruiting coordinator I have spoken with has seen fostering student opinion of the firm as one of their most important jobs.

Just because you should not let it get under your skin because it is unhealthy and you won't be working there anyway, does not mean the practice is ok. We just happen to think they're being a bit of a douche, so we called them on it.

gulc2012
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:36 pm

Re: Getting dinged AFTER withdrawing from firm?

Postby gulc2012 » Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:35 pm

I find this really odd, because I withdrew from a firm pre-callback and got a "We're sorry you chose to withdraw, feel free to apply to us again in the future should you change your mind" letter. I was kind of surprised about it, but the more I thought about it, the more I felt it was likely a form letter sent to people who withdrew (then again, maybe there's a difference between pre and post callback)

MrAnon
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Re: Getting dinged AFTER withdrawing from firm?

Postby MrAnon » Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:40 pm

reprehensible? really odd? You guys take a rejection in any form wayyyyy too personally.

You received a form letter. It may have been intentional or it may have been a mistake. I encourage you to call the firm and managing partner and demand an apology and explanation.

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Kohinoor
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Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:51 pm

Re: Getting dinged AFTER withdrawing from firm?

Postby Kohinoor » Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:31 pm

MrAnon wrote:reprehensible? really odd? You guys take a rejection in any form wayyyyy too personally.

You received a form letter. It may have been intentional or it may have been a mistake. I encourage you to call the firm and managing partner and demand an apology and explanation.

Too late for such half-hearted measures. It's go time.

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stonepeep
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Re: Getting dinged AFTER withdrawing from firm?

Postby stonepeep » Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:29 pm

I think it's disrespectful to send out correspondence without ensuring it's correct. It shows that you don't care about the recipient. For example, I got rejection letters from two firms with whom I never interviewed (I canceled my OCI interviews with them). The fact that they did not take the time to ensure they had the correct list of potential candidates says something about how they view the process. It also says something about how much the staff members in question care about their work product. I say this as someone who has been responsible for similar correspondence in past jobs. I have also supervised people who sent such correspondence, and everyone I worked with knew how important it was to double-check anything that is sent outside the company.

Is it the end of the world? No, it's not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things. But I do wonder about any business that does something like this. Why is their administrative staff making these choices and mistakes? Does anyone within the business notice or care?

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rayiner
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Re: Getting dinged AFTER withdrawing from firm?

Postby rayiner » Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:33 pm

aph wrote:Sure, that's probably the reason (that or maybe more likely, disorganization, as most firms did not do this). But it is still unprofessional. I mentioned this to a recruiting partner at another firm and he/she was aghast. Great way to alienate potential lateral candidates.

I've also receieved an offer letter addressed to the wrong person (they probably got mine). It irks me that as candidates we are dinged for a minor typo, but firms don't take the same care in their own communications.


God how do people like you get offers to begin with.

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rayiner
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Re: Getting dinged AFTER withdrawing from firm?

Postby rayiner » Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:35 pm

I think it's disrespectful to send out correspondence without ensuring it's correct. It shows that you don't care about the recipient.


Bingo. They don't care. You're not special. HTH.

saucie
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:10 pm

Re: Getting dinged AFTER withdrawing from firm?

Postby saucie » Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:09 pm

The legal field isn't some special employment area where being professional doesn't apply. The OP's situation is unprofessional outside the legal field, and it's unprofessional in the legal field. Some of you seem like you're used to being stepped all over by law firms because "you need them and they don't need you." Nothing wrong with having some self-esteem.

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reasonable_man
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Re: Getting dinged AFTER withdrawing from firm?

Postby reasonable_man » Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:17 pm

saucie wrote:The legal field isn't some special employment area where being professional doesn't apply. The OP's situation is unprofessional outside the legal field, and it's unprofessional in the legal field. Some of you seem like you're used to being stepped all over by law firms because "you need them and they don't need you." Nothing wrong with having some self-esteem.



If you're so uptight that it would actually bother you; you really should get laid more often.

I can just see op talking about this to "other hiring partners" ... Old chap, those devils over at Skadden really have my jimmy in a pickle... Can you believe those scoundrels actually had the nerve to send me ... ME ... a form letter rejecting me, after I beat them to it by withdrawing first?! I say old chap, thank goodness THIS firm has some class!!!

Now what you probably don't realize is that:
a) this partner now thinks you're a fucking tool because you're ripping on other firms publicly and feels that this exhibits poor judgment;
b) thinks you're a tool because you actually care about something so trivial;
c) really annoyed because his best friend IS the hiring partner over at Skadden; and/or
d) secretly looking forward to the day you get laid off for lack of hours...

The best part is, he will act normal, laugh it off with you and you won't even know thats how he feels unitl one day it smacks you in the face...

saucie
Posts: 26
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Re: Getting dinged AFTER withdrawing from firm?

Postby saucie » Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:27 pm

I don't think I said it would bother me on a personal level. I merely said it's unprofessional.

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rayiner
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Re: Getting dinged AFTER withdrawing from firm?

Postby rayiner » Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:30 pm

reasonable_man wrote:
saucie wrote:The legal field isn't some special employment area where being professional doesn't apply. The OP's situation is unprofessional outside the legal field, and it's unprofessional in the legal field. Some of you seem like you're used to being stepped all over by law firms because "you need them and they don't need you." Nothing wrong with having some self-esteem.



If you're so uptight that it would actually bother you; you really should get laid more often.

I can just see op talking about this to "other hiring partners" ... Old chap, those devils over at Skadden really have my jimmy in a pickle... Can you believe those scoundrels actually had the nerve to send me ... ME ... a form letter rejecting me, after I beat them to it by withdrawing first?! I say old chap, thank goodness THIS firm has some class!!!

Now what you probably don't realize is that:
a) this partner now thinks you're a fucking tool because you're ripping on other firms publicly and feels that this exhibits poor judgment;
b) thinks you're a tool because you actually care about something so trivial;
c) really annoyed because his best friend IS the hiring partner over at Skadden; and/or
d) secretly looking forward to the day you get laid off for lack of hours...

The best part is, he will act normal, laugh it off with you and you won't even know thats how he feels unitl one day it smacks you in the face...


Seriously. If I were the partner in this situation I'd just be smiling and nodding. I might even recommend the guy for an offer just in the hopes he'd be that lulzy during his SA.

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rayiner
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Re: Getting dinged AFTER withdrawing from firm?

Postby rayiner » Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:31 pm

saucie wrote:The legal field isn't some special employment area where being professional doesn't apply. The OP's situation is unprofessional outside the legal field, and it's unprofessional in the legal field. Some of you seem like you're used to being stepped all over by law firms because "you need them and they don't need you." Nothing wrong with having some self-esteem.


You're entitled to respect when you're a professional. Law students aren't professionals. They are students. Kids mostly, in fact.

aph
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:26 pm

Re: Getting dinged AFTER withdrawing from firm?

Postby aph » Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:50 pm

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Last edited by aph on Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

aph
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:26 pm

Re: Getting dinged AFTER withdrawing from firm?

Postby aph » Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:52 pm

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Last edited by aph on Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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