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Hey yall... I struck out at OCI and have not had any luck with the 300+ mass mailing I've been doing with three different cities. I've literally done everything that you could (practice interviews, networking, job fairs, aforementioned mass mailing, etc) and will keep trying, but I'm having trouble staying cautiously optimistic.

Can some 3Ls share some success stories to keep me motivated enough to study? Has anyone raised their grades so much that they were hired as a 3L? Clerkships? Also, any pointers on what I should be doing right now? Thanks in advance for your responses.

Anonymous User wrote:Hey yall... I struck out at OCI and have not had any luck with the 300+ mass mailing I've been doing with three different cities. I've literally done everything that you could (practice interviews, networking, job fairs, aforementioned mass mailing, etc) and will keep trying, but I'm having trouble staying cautiously optimistic.

Can some 3Ls share some success stories to keep me motivated enough to study? Has anyone raised their grades so much that they were hired as a 3L? Clerkships? Also, any pointers on what I should be doing right now? Thanks in advance for your responses.

I struck out at 2L OCI as a top 1/3 T14 student. I mass-mailed about 500 firms and government organizations over the course of my 2L year, and got rejected by all of them. During my 2L year, I raised my grades from mid 3.4ish to low 3.6ish, and took an editorial board position on a secondary journal. During my 2L summer, I continued my mail campaign, and got an interview with a small firm about 3 hours from where I grew up, and they hired me on the spot. The pay is definitely not biglaw (mid 60k's), but the hours are good and the COL is low--I'm pretty happy with my immediate future.

I struck out and had no luck with mass mailing. I tried to use alumni but no one responded. It took me well into the second semester to get a job. I got an SA with a mid/small lawfirm. I went through OCI and got a couple interviews mass-mailing. All dings.

I transferred from tT2 to ccn. I did really, really well in my first semester last fall. Then that didn't help me get a job so I got really depressed and stopped caring in the second semester. I got smoked by finals and it destroyed my GPA.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Hey yall... I struck out at OCI and have not had any luck with the 300+ mass mailing I've been doing with three different cities. I've literally done everything that you could (practice interviews, networking, job fairs, aforementioned mass mailing, etc) and will keep trying, but I'm having trouble staying cautiously optimistic.

Can some 3Ls share some success stories to keep me motivated enough to study? Has anyone raised their grades so much that they were hired as a 3L? Clerkships? Also, any pointers on what I should be doing right now? Thanks in advance for your responses.

I struck out at 2L OCI as a top 1/3 T14 student. I mass-mailed about 500 firms and government organizations over the course of my 2L year, and got rejected by all of them. During my 2L year, I raised my grades from mid 3.4ish to low 3.6ish, and took an editorial board position on a secondary journal. During my 2L summer, I continued my mail campaign, and got an interview with a small firm about 3 hours from where I grew up, and they hired me on the spot. The pay is definitely not biglaw (mid 60k's), but the hours are good and the COL is low--I'm pretty happy with my immediate future.

QF ITE $60k = "success"

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Hey yall... I struck out at OCI and have not had any luck with the 300+ mass mailing I've been doing with three different cities. I've literally done everything that you could (practice interviews, networking, job fairs, aforementioned mass mailing, etc) and will keep trying, but I'm having trouble staying cautiously optimistic.

Can some 3Ls share some success stories to keep me motivated enough to study? Has anyone raised their grades so much that they were hired as a 3L? Clerkships? Also, any pointers on what I should be doing right now? Thanks in advance for your responses.

I struck out at 2L OCI as a top 1/3 T14 student. I mass-mailed about 500 firms and government organizations over the course of my 2L year, and got rejected by all of them. During my 2L year, I raised my grades from mid 3.4ish to low 3.6ish, and took an editorial board position on a secondary journal. During my 2L summer, I continued my mail campaign, and got an interview with a small firm about 3 hours from where I grew up, and they hired me on the spot. The pay is definitely not biglaw (mid 60k's), but the hours are good and the COL is low--I'm pretty happy with my immediate future.

Dude, this is fucking awful. You have a 3.6 at a t14, and yet, all you got was a small firm that pays $60K /year. Congrats on getting what you wanted and all, but I definitely would not call this a success (particularly when you compare it to the $160k /year you would be making in biglaw).

XxSpyKEx wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Hey yall... I struck out at OCI and have not had any luck with the 300+ mass mailing I've been doing with three different cities. I've literally done everything that you could (practice interviews, networking, job fairs, aforementioned mass mailing, etc) and will keep trying, but I'm having trouble staying cautiously optimistic.

Can some 3Ls share some success stories to keep me motivated enough to study? Has anyone raised their grades so much that they were hired as a 3L? Clerkships? Also, any pointers on what I should be doing right now? Thanks in advance for your responses.

I struck out at 2L OCI as a top 1/3 T14 student. I mass-mailed about 500 firms and government organizations over the course of my 2L year, and got rejected by all of them. During my 2L year, I raised my grades from mid 3.4ish to low 3.6ish, and took an editorial board position on a secondary journal. During my 2L summer, I continued my mail campaign, and got an interview with a small firm about 3 hours from where I grew up, and they hired me on the spot. The pay is definitely not biglaw (mid 60k's), but the hours are good and the COL is low--I'm pretty happy with my immediate future.

Dude, this is fucking awful. You have a 3.6 at a t14, and yet, all you got was a small firm that pays $60K /year. Congrats on getting what you wanted and all, but I definitely would not call this a success (particularly when you compare it to the $160k /year you would be making in biglaw).

yeah, this story kind of solidifies the notion that OCI strikeout = lifefail

fornicator wrote:

XxSpyKEx wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Hey yall... I struck out at OCI and have not had any luck with the 300+ mass mailing I've been doing with three different cities. I've literally done everything that you could (practice interviews, networking, job fairs, aforementioned mass mailing, etc) and will keep trying, but I'm having trouble staying cautiously optimistic.

Can some 3Ls share some success stories to keep me motivated enough to study? Has anyone raised their grades so much that they were hired as a 3L? Clerkships? Also, any pointers on what I should be doing right now? Thanks in advance for your responses.

I struck out at 2L OCI as a top 1/3 T14 student. I mass-mailed about 500 firms and government organizations over the course of my 2L year, and got rejected by all of them. During my 2L year, I raised my grades from mid 3.4ish to low 3.6ish, and took an editorial board position on a secondary journal. During my 2L summer, I continued my mail campaign, and got an interview with a small firm about 3 hours from where I grew up, and they hired me on the spot. The pay is definitely not biglaw (mid 60k's), but the hours are good and the COL is low--I'm pretty happy with my immediate future.

Dude, this is fucking awful. You have a 3.6 at a t14, and yet, all you got was a small firm that pays $60K /year. Congrats on getting what you wanted and all, but I definitely would not call this a success (particularly when you compare it to the $160k /year you would be making in biglaw).

yeah, this story kind of solidifies the notion that OCI strikeout = lifefail

that's definitely going a bit too far. Yeah, it's not a great salary, but still very livable thanks to IBR--certainly not "lifefail."

The hell is wrong with you people?

Happiness = success.

Money may or may not be part of that, and $60k might not do it for you, but that sure isn't the only reason I'm here.

I posted this in another "success" thread, but I'll post it here too to motivate 3Ls..

I was slightly below median at a T14 and struck out at OCI 2L year. I applied to a ton of firms this summer/fall and recently got an offer for a V50 firm for next fall. My GPA only improved slightly from 1L to 2L year and I'm now slightly above median.

Anonymous User wrote:I posted this in another "success" thread, but I'll post it here too to motivate 3Ls..

I was slightly below median at a T14 and struck out at OCI 2L year. I applied to a ton of firms this summer/fall and recently got an offer for a V50 firm for next fall. My GPA only improved slightly from 1L to 2L year and I'm now slightly above median.

I'm the OP - Congratulations! What was your strategy? Did you mass mail earlier in the summer? To what do you attribute your success? My 1L grades suck, so I probably need to work on that. But it's definitely good to hear that it IS possible.

prezidentv8 wrote:The hell is wrong with you people?

Happiness = success.

Money may or may not be part of that, and $60k might not do it for you, but that sure isn't the only reason I'm here.

Sure, but I highly doubt someone who attends a t14 went there thinking it would be a "success" if they wind up at some small law firm making $60K /year. I think this would be a completely different story if it were $60k /year for the federal or state government, or public interest (or really anything that the person realistically went to the t14 law school wanting to do). Here, it's pretty clear that the guy didn't go to law school with huge hopes of getting to work at a small law firm for $60k /year based on the fact that he was shooting for biglaw or government. So, no, I would not call this a success.

XxSpyKEx wrote:

prezidentv8 wrote:The hell is wrong with you people?

Happiness = success.

Money may or may not be part of that, and $60k might not do it for you, but that sure isn't the only reason I'm here.

Sure, but I highly doubt someone who attends a t14 went there thinking it would be a "success" if they wind up at some small law firm making $60K /year. I think this would be a completely different story if it were $60k /year for the federal or state government, or public interest (or really anything that the person realistically went to the t14 law school wanting to do). Here, it's pretty clear that the guy didn't go to law school with huge hopes of getting to work at a small law firm for $60k /year based on the fact that he was shooting for biglaw or government. So, no, I would not call this a success.

I'm the OP - can people just agree to disagree on what "success" means to you and please, please, PLEASE keep this thread from unnecessary bickering? There are people in this forum that genuinely wants to hear other people's stories in order to be motivated.

XxSpyKEx wrote:

prezidentv8 wrote:The hell is wrong with you people?

Happiness = success.

Money may or may not be part of that, and $60k might not do it for you, but that sure isn't the only reason I'm here.

Sure, but I highly doubt someone who attends a t14 went there thinking it would be a "success" if they wind up at some small law firm making $60K /year. I think this would be a completely different story if it were $60k /year for the federal or state government, or public interest (or really anything that the person realistically went to the t14 law school wanting to do). Here, it's pretty clear that the guy didn't go to law school with huge hopes of getting to work at a small law firm for $60k /year based on the fact that he was shooting for biglaw or government. So, no, I would not call this a success.

Frankly, I'd like to think that most T14 students (most people in general really) have heard the saying "You can't always get what you want" and, in light of the economic situation, would have the sense to realize that they really aren't very unlucky to be pulling in $60k a year in a job they actually like.

Granted, I'm pretty pissy about the employment situation too, but if I end up with a mediocre financial living and I'm happy, I won't be whining to anyone. Guess it comes down to priorities, and we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Great thread idea.

And please let's try not to be bitches to the 3Ls that post their stories by telling them they have failed. :/

Anonymous User wrote:Great thread idea.

And please let's try not to be bitches to the 3Ls that post their stories by telling them they have failed. :/

+100

I'm still in the hunt for BigLaw. However, I think it's funny how many of you look down at getting 60K in a small market city right out of law school. Although these people are not making the 160K to start off, they will probably be ending up in the same place as most BigLaw lawyers in 5-10 years. Many of those looking for BigLaw are also looking for in-house exit strategies. Those in-house gigs pay substantially less than BigLaw salaries, and are probably comparable to a senior level associate pay at smaller firms (i.e., 100-130k). And to top it off, those starting off in small markets have a great shot at making partner. Partners generally bring in 200-300k at small firms (that is a LOT in a small city!). So, don't think that getting non-BigLaw job makes your law degree worthless. These people worked hard and still have a great future.

LOL at the idea of small law being life fail.

ITE, success = being employed and getting your career started.

Anonymous User wrote:I'm still in the hunt for BigLaw. However, I think it's funny how many of you look down at getting 60K in a small market city right out of law school. Although these people are not making the 160K to start off, they will probably be ending up in the same place as most BigLaw lawyers in 5-10 years. Many of those looking for BigLaw are also looking for in-house exit strategies. Those in-house gigs pay substantially less than BigLaw salaries, and are probably comparable to a senior level associate pay at smaller firms (i.e., 100-130k). And to top it off, those starting off in small markets have a great shot at making partner. Partners generally bring in 200-300k at small firms (that is a LOT in a small city!). So, don't think that getting non-BigLaw job makes your law degree worthless. These people worked hard and still have a great future.

Don't forget that $60K in Rochester isn't too far from $160K in Manhattan.

switch to part-time and do OCI again next year. then, if you strike out, killself

I'm only a 2L, but have heard of several kids at my CCN school who struck out 2L year, worked at random public interest things for the 2L summer, and then had success 3L year at OCI (including 2 at V10 firms). They all had top 20% grades 2L year though, and I think might have been so unsuccessful 2L year because of over-bidding and just getting unlucky due to the economy. Morale of the story though: study really hard and try to do very well 2L year, I think that's the most important aspect to being successful for 3L OCI.

prezidentv8 wrote:The hell is wrong with you people?

Happiness = success.

Money may or may not be part of that, and $60k might not do it for you, but that sure isn't the only reason I'm here.

+1

remember the end game, folks

Anonymous User wrote:I'm only a 2L, but have heard of several kids at my CCN school who struck out 2L year, worked at random public interest things for the 2L summer, and then had success 3L year at OCI (including 2 at V10 firms). They all had top 20% grades 2L year though, and I think might have been so unsuccessful 2L year because of over-bidding and just getting unlucky due to the economy. Morale of the story though: study really hard and try to do very well 2L year, I think that's the most important aspect to being successful for 3L OCI.

Hmmm I see. I'm at CCN too, and the firms that interviewed 3Ls seemed to be the most selective firms (mostly V10). Given that lots of people struck out this year, these spots next year would be uber competitive. So I think you're right - grades would be the key.

Really? That's it? There's no one else that got a job as a 3L?

Anonymous User wrote:Really? That's it? There's no one else that got a job as a 3L?

I know three people at my CCN who got V10-V30 jobs through the 3L OCI, but they all had comparable 2L summer associate gigs and permanent offers.

Anonymous User wrote:I'm still in the hunt for BigLaw. However, I think it's funny how many of you look down at getting 60K in a small market city right out of law school. Although these people are not making the 160K to start off, they will probably be ending up in the same place as most BigLaw lawyers in 5-10 years. Many of those looking for BigLaw are also looking for in-house exit strategies. Those in-house gigs pay substantially less than BigLaw salaries, and are probably comparable to a senior level associate pay at smaller firms (i.e., 100-130k). And to top it off, those starting off in small markets have a great shot at making partner. Partners generally bring in 200-300k at small firms (that is a LOT in a small city!). So, don't think that getting non-BigLaw job makes your law degree worthless. These people worked hard and still have a great future.

I think the tough thing for most people to get over about the small firm is that you are going to be working just as many hours as your biglaw counterparts, since most of those firms have similar billable hour requirements, just without the pay or prestige. Working 70 hours a week for $160K /year doesn't sound as terrible as working those hours for $60K /year. The other thing that should be tough to swallow is that 10 years in as a partner you will be making close to the same salary as a 1st year biglaw associate that just got out of law school. Lastly, in the long run, you typically get less challenging, as well as less high profile, cases at a small firm (e.g. you might be working on a personal injury arguing negligence as oppose to doing the Lehman brother's bankruptcy).

With that said, there are definitely pros to working at a smaller law firm as well, such as getting more responsibility up front (e.g. you will get to do things like take depositions, file your own briefs, etc. within months of working there, which is something that you might have waited years to do at a larger firm). There’s can also be a lot less bureaucracy at a smaller firm, and it can be easier to develop a client base without having grey hair. Lastly, the atmosphere of the law firm can be a lot better (e.g. in a lot of places you won’t need carefully watch what you say to partners).

Personally, I think the pros of working at a larger firm greatly outweigh the cons of working there. But if the smaller firm is all you can get, then at least it’s something.