Seeking 3Ls with post-2L-OCI-strikeout-success Forum

[MrAnon]

Don't forget that $60K in Rochester isn't too far from $160K in Manhattan.

What exactly does this mean? Between loans and trying to live in a neighborhood where you won't get mugged, $160 will not get you far in Manhattan. Between loans and trying to have a car, $60k will not get you far in Rochester either.

[War Cardinal]

A friend struck out at HYS OCI a few years back. He now works for Wachtell as a paralegal.

[Anonymous User]

Really? That's it? There's no one else that got a job as a 3L?

I know three people at my CCN who got V10-V30 jobs through the 3L OCI, but they all had comparable 2L summer associate gigs and permanent offers.

Comparable as in V10-V30 associate gigs?

[worldtraveler]

Don't forget that $60K in Rochester isn't too far from $160K in Manhattan.

What exactly does this mean? Between loans and trying to live in a neighborhood where you won't get mugged, $160 will not get you far in Manhattan. Between loans and trying to have a car, $60k will not get you far in Rochester either.

You just asked what that sentence meant, then explained what it meant. Hilarious.

Some of the jobless 3Ls I know are having luck with government agency stuff. Not the prestigious DOJ stuff, more like for state governments and administrative agencies.

[Anonymous User]

Really? That's it? There's no one else that got a job as a 3L?

I know three people at my CCN who got V10-V30 jobs through the 3L OCI, but they all had comparable 2L summer associate gigs and permanent offers.

Comparable as in V10-V30 associate gigs?

Yes.

[HamDel]

Hey yall... I struck out at OCI and have not had any luck with the 300+ mass mailing I've been doing with three different cities. I've literally done everything that you could (practice interviews, networking, job fairs, aforementioned mass mailing, etc) and will keep trying, but I'm having trouble staying cautiously optimistic.

Can some 3Ls share some success stories to keep me motivated enough to study? Has anyone raised their grades so much that they were hired as a 3L? Clerkships? Also, any pointers on what I should be doing right now? Thanks in advance for your responses.

I struck out at 2L OCI as a top 1/3 T14 student. I mass-mailed about 500 firms and government organizations over the course of my 2L year, and got rejected by all of them. During my 2L year, I raised my grades from mid 3.4ish to low 3.6ish, and took an editorial board position on a secondary journal. During my 2L summer, I continued my mail campaign, and got an interview with a small firm about 3 hours from where I grew up, and they hired me on the spot. The pay is definitely not biglaw (mid 60k's), but the hours are good and the COL is low--I'm pretty happy with my immediate future.

Dude, this is fucking awful. You have a 3.6 at a t14, and yet, all you got was a small firm that pays $60K /year. Congrats on getting what you wanted and all, but I definitely would not call this a success (particularly when you compare it to the $160k /year you would be making in biglaw).

yeah, this story kind of solidifies the notion that OCI strikeout = lifefail

Please - getting a job as a drone/punching bag at a firm does not make you a winner, and not getting one doesn't make someone a loser. Any attorney who is in it purely for the money, however, truly is a loser who doesn't have what it takes for banking.

[OperaSoprano]

The hell is wrong with you people?

Happiness = success.

Money may or may not be part of that, and $60k might not do it for you, but that sure isn't the only reason I'm here.

You are a genius. Just wanted you to know. At the end of the day, it's your life, and you have to live it. If I get offered $60k for a job I actually like, I intend to grab it and enjoy.

[A'nold]

You know, and then there are those of us that grew up in <20k households........... 60k is wealthy where I'm from.

[IAFG]

The hell is wrong with you people?

Happiness = success.

Money may or may not be part of that, and $60k might not do it for you, but that sure isn't the only reason I'm here.

You are a genius. Just wanted you to know. At the end of the day, it's your life, and you have to live it. If I get offered $60k for a job I actually like, I intend to grab it and enjoy.

seriously. wouldn't it be amazing to wake up every morning and hurry to a job you actually enjoyed?

[dbt]

ITT, a bunch of bright-eyed 0Ls call someone who got a job ITE a failure.

[Anonymous User]

You know, and then there are those of us that grew up in <20k households........... 60k is wealthy where I'm from.

This is the thing I keep thinking about as I evaluate my offers. $160K in New York is nice, but ... what if I just went and lived somewhere that cost half as much to live and made less than half as much, but didn't grind myself down to the bone every night? I'd still be making twice as much as my parents did.

[Anonymous User]

Transfer student, now a 3L, here. I spent a lot of time sending resumes during 2L and got little response. Look at non-firm options that are tangentially related to your desired practice area for 2L summer employment. I would focus on improving your GPA and taking courses that demonstrate an interest in your desired practice area. Even if you can't land a summer associate gig the possibility that you can land offers with top firms is still a possibility. I did not have a big firm gig this past summer, but have offers from v20 firms now.

[Oban]

In small firms you dont bill the same amount of hours as biglaw. They may have similar quotas, but no one meets them regularly and there are no punishments if you don't. This is from my experience as a paralegal and talking with lawyers at small firms/alumni of my school

[XxSpyKEx]

You know, and then there are those of us that grew up in <20k households........... 60k is wealthy where I'm from.

In all honesty, I think I would be perfectly happy with a legal job that paid $60K /year and didn't require anymore than 40 hours /week, if I didn't have any debt. I actually had this coming out of UG back in 07' (except the legal job part-- but I got a company car). But when you factor in that it's pretty difficult to find a legal job where you are only going to need to work 40 hours /week (except government, and that's a maybe), and the $25k /year loan payments, $60K /year doesn't look nearly as attractive.

In small firms you dont bill the same amount of hours as biglaw. They may have similar quotas, but no one meets them regularly and there are no punishments if you don't. This is from my experience as a paralegal and talking with lawyers at small firms/alumni of my school

LOL. Yeah, the billable hour requirement is just a joke, and you won't get canned when you don't meet it. Good luck with that one.

Arguably, attorneys at smaller firms do work less hours than at many larger firms because they only bill to the required number of hours (typically around 2100 hours /year), whereas, biglaw attorneys will almost be expected to bill more than the billable requirement. But that's not true at all large firms; there are a lot of good large firms where the attorneys, in fact, don't bill more than they are required to. Also, actually billing 2100 hours /year isn't walk in the park. Most small firm attorneys put in a lot of hours as well.

[Anonymous User]

Transfer student, now a 3L, here. I spent a lot of time sending resumes during 2L and got little response. Look at non-firm options that are tangentially related to your desired practice area for 2L summer employment. I would focus on improving your GPA and taking courses that demonstrate an interest in your desired practice area. Even if you can't land a summer associate gig the possibility that you can land offers with top firms is still a possibility. I did not have a big firm gig this past summer, but have offers from v20 firms now.

Could you share more about how you managed to land offers despite striking out initially? 3L OCI? Your post sounds like mailing was not successful...I am a transfer hoping to be in your position next year...any info or guidance would be helpful

[Oban]

You know, and then there are those of us that grew up in <20k households........... 60k is wealthy where I'm from.

In all honesty, I think I would be perfectly happy with a legal job that paid $60K /year and didn't require anymore than 40 hours /week, if I didn't have any debt. I actually had this coming out of UG back in 07' (except the legal job part-- but I got a company car). But when you factor in that it's pretty difficult to find a legal job where you are only going to need to work 40 hours /week (except government, and that's a maybe), and the $25k /year loan payments, $60K /year doesn't look nearly as attractive.

In small firms you dont bill the same amount of hours as biglaw. They may have similar quotas, but no one meets them regularly and there are no punishments if you don't. This is from my experience as a paralegal and talking with lawyers at small firms/alumni of my school

LOL. Yeah, the billable hour requirement is just a joke, and you won't get canned when you don't meet it. Good luck with that one.

Arguably, attorneys at smaller firms do work less hours than at many larger firms because they only bill to the required number of hours (typically around 2100 hours /year), whereas, biglaw attorneys will almost be expected to bill more than the billable requirement. But that's not true at all large firms; there are a lot of good large firms where the attorneys, in fact, don't bill more than they are required to. Also, actually billing 2100 hours /year isn't walk in the park. Most small firm attorneys put in a lot of hours as well.

Alot of the mid/smaller firms have 1800 BH quotas, and attorneys admit to regularly coming short or not exceeding them. Thees are people that are 3 to 4 years in. YMMV

[Anonymous User]

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/10/great-ex ... pensation/

[Anonymous User]

Was top 15% after 1L at tier 3, struck out at OCI, top 8% after 2L with LR board membership. Ended up doing a paid government job 2L summer and now clerking for a state appellate judge ($50K). Class of 2010. I love what I do, but I probably wouldn't be happy financially if I had a bunch of debt (full ride + stipend).

#1 dude in my class got no-offered and then didn't get a (biglaw) job until the week before graduation. Hang in there. Life is not over.

[Anonymous User]

anyone have any non t14 success stories? like T30? lol

[JazzOne]

Don't forget that $60K in Rochester isn't too far from $160K in Manhattan.

What exactly does this mean? Between loans and trying to live in a neighborhood where you won't get mugged, $160 will not get you far in Manhattan. Between loans and trying to have a car, $60k will not get you far in Rochester either.

You just asked what that sentence meant, then explained what it meant. Hilarious.

+1

[JazzOne]

You know, and then there are those of us that grew up in <20k households........... 60k is wealthy where I'm from.

This is the thing I keep thinking about as I evaluate my offers. $160K in New York is nice, but ... what if I just went and lived somewhere that cost half as much to live and made less than half as much, but didn't grind myself down to the bone every night? I'd still be making twice as much as my parents did.

+1

I am currently facing this situation. I have an opportunity to make market salary in a big city ($160K). After taxes, I'd be lucky to take home $100K, and the billable requirement is 2,400. Or I can go back to my home market ($80K), keep a larger portion of my income, with a billable requirement of 1,800. Oh, and the cost of living in my home market is substantially less than the big city. Biglaw doesn't sound so great right about now, and this is proving to be a tough choice. Being close to my family and having a relaxed work schedule seem to be worth the difference in income.

[Merriweather]

lol at the fawning over 60k a year jobs. you sure didn't consider this success when you entered LS, and you shouldn't now. i have a V100 offer and i'm pretty fucking thankful for that, but if i didn't and snagged some shitlaw steve job, i sure as fuck wouldn't suddenly think this was awesome.

LIFE FAIL

[Tsispilos]

lol at the fawning over 60k a year jobs. you sure didn't consider this success when you entered LS, and you shouldn't now. i have a V100 offer and i'm pretty fucking thankful for that, but if i didn't and snagged some shitlaw steve job, i sure as fuck wouldn't suddenly think this was awesome.

LIFE FAIL

edit: quoted to maintain permanent proof that Merriweather is a douchebag.

[XxSpyKEx]

You know, and then there are those of us that grew up in <20k households........... 60k is wealthy where I'm from.

In all honesty, I think I would be perfectly happy with a legal job that paid $60K /year and didn't require anymore than 40 hours /week, if I didn't have any debt. I actually had this coming out of UG back in 07' (except the legal job part-- but I got a company car). But when you factor in that it's pretty difficult to find a legal job where you are only going to need to work 40 hours /week (except government, and that's a maybe), and the $25k /year loan payments, $60K /year doesn't look nearly as attractive.

In small firms you dont bill the same amount of hours as biglaw. They may have similar quotas, but no one meets them regularly and there are no punishments if you don't. This is from my experience as a paralegal and talking with lawyers at small firms/alumni of my school

LOL. Yeah, the billable hour requirement is just a joke, and you won't get canned when you don't meet it. Good luck with that one.

Arguably, attorneys at smaller firms do work less hours than at many larger firms because they only bill to the required number of hours (typically around 2100 hours /year), whereas, biglaw attorneys will almost be expected to bill more than the billable requirement. But that's not true at all large firms; there are a lot of good large firms where the attorneys, in fact, don't bill more than they are required to. Also, actually billing 2100 hours /year isn't walk in the park. Most small firm attorneys put in a lot of hours as well.

Alot of the mid/smaller firms have 1800 BH quotas, and attorneys admit to regularly coming short or not exceeding them. Thees are people that are 3 to 4 years in. YMMV

A number of large law firms have 1800 billable hours requirements as well... Also, even though a firm might not fire you for not meeting the billable hours requirement, it doesn't mean you'll be successful when you aren't meeting the basic expectations (i.e. there will still be a lot of pressure to bill, and if you aren't, then you won't move up).

[Merriweather]

lol at the fawning over 60k a year jobs. you sure didn't consider this success when you entered LS, and you shouldn't now. i have a V100 offer and i'm pretty fucking thankful for that, but if i didn't and snagged some shitlaw steve job, i sure as fuck wouldn't suddenly think this was awesome.

LIFE FAIL

edit: quoted to maintain permanent proof that Merriweather is a douchebag.

u mad?

i stand by it. if i get double-dip pwned and my offer rescinded, and i manage to scrape some shit job in bumfuck flyover nation, i'm not going to shout from the rooftops that this is what i always wanted. HTH