V5 Firm Corporate --> Sports Law?

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V5 Firm Corporate --> Sports Law?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:16 pm

(1) Is it possible to work at a good firm (V5) doing corporate work for a few years and later transition to a firm that does sports law and work as a sports lawyer?

(2) From what I hear, sports-related work in the few Biglaw firms that do it (e.g. Proskauer) tends to be transactional/negotiation based, although others (Covington) also litigate sports-related matters. How difficult is it to break into the sports law market with a corporate background?

FYI: I would like to be the GC of a sports team one day . . . among other things.

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Re: V5 Firm Corporate --> Sports Law?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:46 am

I have many close contacts in the sports industry and they all say the same thing:

1. The only difference between a sports contract and regular contract is the name at the top of the paper.
2. The industry is all about connections, connections, connections. A lot of these guys went to TTT colleges and law schools and could care less where you got your degree from or what firm you worked for. (Many law students forget that outside of the legal community no one knows nor cares what a "V5" is.)
3. You won't get that type of career coming from a V5 because it takes hustle and determination, a lot of law students fall into the trap of if I go to XYZ and do ABC I will be at TUV, the real world doesn't work that way which goes back to #2. If you want an interesting career path like you described above you're going to have to take some RISKS which is the polar opposite of the type of people that end up at V5's no offense.

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Re: V5 Firm Corporate --> Sports Law?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:10 am

Anonymous User wrote:I have many close contacts in the sports industry and they all say the same thing:

1. The only difference between a sports contract and regular contract is the name at the top of the paper.
2. The industry is all about connections, connections, connections. A lot of these guys went to TTT colleges and law schools and could care less where you got your degree from or what firm you worked for. (Many law students forget that outside of the legal community no one knows nor cares what a "V5" is.)
3. You won't get that type of career coming from a V5 because it takes hustle and determination, a lot of law students fall into the trap of if I go to XYZ and do ABC I will be at TUV, the real world doesn't work that way which goes back to #2. If you want an interesting career path like you described above you're going to have to take some RISKS which is the polar opposite of the type of people that end up at V5's no offense.


I doubt working at a V5 will necessarily and automatically bar you from such a career. Do a lot of risk-averse people work at V5s? Of course. But this may be a function of them being lawyers, and not so much of them being V5 lawyers.

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Re: V5 Firm Corporate --> Sports Law?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:34 am

I say that because working at a V5 or any large law firm you will become accostomed to a certain salary, to make it in the sports world you have to start at the bottom and work your way up, look at the bios of GM's in the major sports, the majority did not follow conventional career paths. It is hard to say that you will work at a firm until you are 30 years old, not have any kids and be willing to relocate to any city that would hire you. Its not about being risk adverse as much as its about sheer inertia. A lot of people severely underestimate what it takes to break into certain careers paths and have warped delusions about the value of working at a "V5". Don't go into BIGLAW with that mentality that "I'll do this and then do what I REALLY want to do" you are setting yourself up for failure and people that want DOJ/SEC/ACLU often find out the same thing.

______________________________________

As of April 8, 2010, over 14,696 people have been laid off by major law firms (5,772 lawyers / 8,924 staff) since January 1, 2008.

More than 12,219 people (4,656 / 7,563) were laid off from law firms in calendar 2009. The Year in Layoffs – 2009, consolidates and analyzes all of the information about law-firm layoffs last year.

So far in 2010, 485 people have been laid off (186 / 299).

http://lawshucks.com/layoff-tracker/

________________________________________

All these people are just as qualified or more qualified then you, yet most are unemployed. Working at a large law firm will not give you all of the skills necessary for the career the OP is talking about. If you are interested in learning more let me know then I will PM you my e-mail address and give you a list my contacts in the industry so you can hear it straight from the horses mouth. I am on the Sports and Law Journal at HYS so I know more than enough about how this industry works, please don't take advice from these lemmings who think working in BIGLAW will open up "so many doors".

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Re: V5 Firm Corporate --> Sports Law?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I have many close contacts in the sports industry and they all say the same thing:

1. The only difference between a sports contract and regular contract is the name at the top of the paper.
2. The industry is all about connections, connections, connections. A lot of these guys went to TTT colleges and law schools and could care less where you got your degree from or what firm you worked for. (Many law students forget that outside of the legal community no one knows nor cares what a "V5" is.)
3. You won't get that type of career coming from a V5 because it takes hustle and determination, a lot of law students fall into the trap of if I go to XYZ and do ABC I will be at TUV, the real world doesn't work that way which goes back to #2. If you want an interesting career path like you described above you're going to have to take some RISKS which is the polar opposite of the type of people that end up at V5's no offense.


I doubt working at a V5 will necessarily and automatically bar you from such a career. Do a lot of risk-averse people work at V5s? Of course. But this may be a function of them being lawyers, and not so much of them being V5 lawyers.


When I say V5, I meant BIGLAW in general.

lola_wants
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Re: V5 Firm Corporate --> Sports Law?

Postby lola_wants » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:38 am

The Red Sox general counsel started his career at CSM. Just sayin'...

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Re: V5 Firm Corporate --> Sports Law?

Postby hlsjd12 » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:43 am

EDIT: I thought the OP wanted to be a GM not a GC, so I look like a complete idiot now, I'm a loser. GC's do typically work in large law firms, but that is still impossible to get from the associate level, you would have to make partner to even come close to getting that type of job.

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Re: V5 Firm Corporate --> Sports Law?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:27 am

hlsjd12 wrote:EDIT: I thought the OP wanted to be a GM not a GC, so I look like a complete idiot now, I'm a loser. GC's do typically work in large law firms, but that is still impossible to get from the associate level, you would have to make partner to even come close to getting that type of job.


OP here. thanks for all your responses so far. they've been very helpful. To be honest, I'd probably enjoy being a GM far more than a GC, but I understand that getting to be a GM without the contacts, experience playing the sport, etc is about as close to an impossibility as you can get. In fact, probably less than handful of GMs are lawyers--Theo Epstein (BoSox) and David Kahn (Timberwolves) come to mind. Lon Babby (Suns) now serves in a similar capacity after having practiced law at a Biglaw firm (W&C) for a while. But he had some serious contacts within the Orioles organization (personal friend of then-owner and W&C founder Edward Bennett Williams), if I remember correctly.

Given my interest in the sports industry and my interest in practicing law (at least so far), I think aiming for a GC position is a good way to go. Either that, or I work on finding how to make a shit-ton of money and just buy a damn team. But that would most likely involve getting out of the legal market entirely.

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Re: V5 Firm Corporate --> Sports Law?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:34 am

lola_wants wrote:The Red Sox general counsel started his career at CSM. Just sayin'...


absolutely. 4 years at CSM, then 13 years in-house at Time Warner.

New England Sports Ventures Announces Ed Weiss as General Counsel wrote:New England Sports Ventures (NESV) announced today that Ed Weiss has been named General Counsel. The announcement was made by NESV Chairman Tom Werner.

Weiss comes to NESV from Time Warner Inc. where he has been for the past 13 years, most recently as Senior Vice President and Deputy General Counsel. At Time Warner, Weiss was responsible for litigation, regulatory and intellectual property issues across the company worldwide. He handled all significant antitrust issues and served as a key advisor on business and intellectual property issues related to digital content distribution as well as oversight of all FCC legal issues. His first three years at Time Warner were spent at Time Warner Cable overseeing all litigation and antitrust matters for that cable operator. Prior to Time Warner, Ed was at the law firm of Cravath, Swaine and Moore where he worked as a commercial litigator for four years. He also served as a law clerk to the Honorable Jay C. Waldman, a federal judge in Pennsylvania.

Weisswill have oversight on all legal matters for the NESV group of companies, including the Boston Red Sox, New England Sports Network (NESN) and Fenway Sports Group (FSG), and will have offices at both Fenway Park and NESN.

A native of Norwood, MA, Weiss graduated from Harvard College and received his law degree from the University of Pennsylvania. He and his wife, Susan, are the parents of three children.

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Re: V5 Firm Corporate --> Sports Law?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:08 pm

Any other suggestions? Thoughts? Advice?

Oban
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Re: V5 Firm Corporate --> Sports Law?

Postby Oban » Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:43 pm

Sports law is all about connections. Not what school you went to or what firm you started in. If you don't know anyone in sports(IE a player, a front office lawyer, a coach etc) or have one in your family, you ain't getting in, unless you fucking hustle like no bodys buisness.

Sports law isn't like making partner, or going in house, you don't just "go to a t14, then to a NLJ250, then mosey on in"

You just work your connections and brown nose.

Of course there is going to be an exception, just like those people who go into IP without tech backgrounds or get a job at 3L OCI.


Look at the GCs, presidents, etc of major teams. All of them had sports backgrounds. They are former players, married to players, sons of players, related to coaches etc etc etc

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Re: V5 Firm Corporate --> Sports Law?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:34 pm

Oban wrote:Sports law is all about connections. Not what school you went to or what firm you started in. If you don't know anyone in sports(IE a player, a front office lawyer, a coach etc) or have one in your family, you ain't getting in, unless you fucking hustle like no bodys buisness.

Sports law isn't like making partner, or going in house, you don't just "go to a t14, then to a NLJ250, then mosey on in"

You just work your connections and brown nose.

Of course there is going to be an exception, just like those people who go into IP without tech backgrounds or get a job at 3L OCI.


Look at the GCs, presidents, etc of major teams. All of them had sports backgrounds. They are former players, married to players, sons of players, related to coaches etc etc etc


understanding that general COUNSEL =/= general MANAGER, does your advice still hold true?

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Re: V5 Firm Corporate --> Sports Law?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:23 pm

You HAVE to work at a firm that does sports work... Skadden, Proskauer, etc., and be lucky enough to get some league assignments as an associate. That being said, the poster that said none of the work is different is correct, with the exception being stadium financing. Make connections now, and remember that's it's all about protecting the shield.

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Re: V5 Firm Corporate --> Sports Law?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:You HAVE to work at a firm that does sports work... Skadden, Proskauer, etc., and be lucky enough to get some league assignments as an associate. That being said, the poster that said none of the work is different is correct, with the exception being stadium financing. Make connections now, and remember that's it's all about protecting the shield.


Would it be wise to choose Proskauer over S&C, for instance? Couldn't I just summer at S&C and work there a few years doing corporate stuff and lateral to a sports law firm (like Proskauer) after 3-4 years?

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Re: V5 Firm Corporate --> Sports Law?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:You HAVE to work at a firm that does sports work... Skadden, Proskauer, etc., and be lucky enough to get some league assignments as an associate. That being said, the poster that said none of the work is different is correct, with the exception being stadium financing. Make connections now, and remember that's it's all about protecting the shield.


Would it be wise to choose Proskauer over S&C, for instance? Couldn't I just summer at S&C and work there a few years doing corporate stuff and lateral to a sports law firm (like Proskauer) after 3-4 years?

Just because you're at a firm that does sports work doesn't mean you're getting any of it. From what I've been told, a lot of getting the work is just happenstance... get one project tossed your way, do well on it, keep going, etc. It's not as if there are sports practice groups.

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Re: V5 Firm Corporate --> Sports Law?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:You HAVE to work at a firm that does sports work... Skadden, Proskauer, etc., and be lucky enough to get some league assignments as an associate. That being said, the poster that said none of the work is different is correct, with the exception being stadium financing. Make connections now, and remember that's it's all about protecting the shield.


Would it be wise to choose Proskauer over S&C, for instance? Couldn't I just summer at S&C and work there a few years doing corporate stuff and lateral to a sports law firm (like Proskauer) after 3-4 years?

Just because you're at a firm that does sports work doesn't mean you're getting any of it. From what I've been told, a lot of getting the work is just happenstance... get one project tossed your way, do well on it, keep going, etc. It's not as if there are sports practice groups.


Pretty sure Proskauer has a sports group:

http://www.proskauer.com/professionals/howard-ganz/

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Re: V5 Firm Corporate --> Sports Law?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:You HAVE to work at a firm that does sports work... Skadden, Proskauer, etc., and be lucky enough to get some league assignments as an associate. That being said, the poster that said none of the work is different is correct, with the exception being stadium financing. Make connections now, and remember that's it's all about protecting the shield.


Would it be wise to choose Proskauer over S&C, for instance? Couldn't I just summer at S&C and work there a few years doing corporate stuff and lateral to a sports law firm (like Proskauer) after 3-4 years?

Just because you're at a firm that does sports work doesn't mean you're getting any of it. From what I've been told, a lot of getting the work is just happenstance... get one project tossed your way, do well on it, keep going, etc. It's not as if there are sports practice groups.


Pretty sure Proskauer has a sports group:

http://www.proskauer.com/professionals/howard-ganz/

It's not a cohesive practice group for associates (like lit or M&A or bankruptcy or whatever). You don't get placed "in" the sports group. There is sports-related work in a lot of the practice groups, and it's a tag you can put on your bio, but it's not as if you're coming in as an associate "in the sports law group."

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Re: V5 Firm Corporate --> Sports Law?

Postby vamedic03 » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:You HAVE to work at a firm that does sports work... Skadden, Proskauer, etc., and be lucky enough to get some league assignments as an associate. That being said, the poster that said none of the work is different is correct, with the exception being stadium financing. Make connections now, and remember that's it's all about protecting the shield.


Would it be wise to choose Proskauer over S&C, for instance? Couldn't I just summer at S&C and work there a few years doing corporate stuff and lateral to a sports law firm (like Proskauer) after 3-4 years?



The long term options, in any field, will be far better coming out of S&C than Proskauer.




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