Poll: Which Boston firm?

[Anonymous User]

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Um. Butterflies and Fairydust?

edit: i'm an idiot. This post was meant to be a pm.

[Anonymous User]

For those who voted for Proskauer, what do you like about it? Robin Painter is amazing, although I wonder if everyone is striving to do work for her.

[Anonymous User]

How would you rank Boston firms in terms of prestige?

1. Ropes
2. Wilmer
3. Goodwin (reluctantly--I hear it can be a hostile work environment)
4. Bingham
5. Skadden (?)
6. Nutter
7. Choate
8. The Foleys
9. EAPD
10. Proskauer (although within funds industry prob right up there with Ropes)
11. Dechert (mutual funds)
12. S&W (but tax dept is #1)
13. Goulston
14. Mintz
15. The rest

[McBean]

How would you rank Boston firms in terms of prestige?

1. Ropes
2. Wilmer
3. Goodwin (reluctantly--I hear it can be a hostile work environment)
4. Bingham
5. Skadden (?)
6. Nutter
7. Choate
8. The Foleys
9. EAPD
10. Proskauer (although within funds industry prob right up there with Ropes)
11. Dechert (mutual funds)
12. S&W (but tax dept is #1)
13. Goulston
14. Mintz
15. The rest

No love for Weil? Also, I'm assuming you mean prestige among the Boston legal community, not nationwide...

[Blindmelon]

From what I understand of the legal market in Boston its less "ranked" and more:

Ropes/Wilmer/Goodwin
Bingham/Skadden
Choate/Foley/Nutter (although below market rate)
EAPD/Goulston/Mintz/Proskauer/Brown Rudnick/Foley Lardner
S&W (only because its way below market)

Weil is tough to place because its basically only corporate. Similar with Dechert. Really small offices, great for what they do, but they don't do all that much.

[Anonymous User]

Any anecdotal word on how Choate handled the recession? How were layoffs handled? Did morale hold up?

Also, thoughts on work/life balance at Choate would be appreciated (particularly w/r/t litigation associates).

Basically, any thoughts on Choate at all! I have an offer there that I'm excited about, but I want to get a firm grasp on the place before I accept it.

edit: the above "tiered" list of Boston firms is TCR, in my understanding, with some variations based on practice area (Goulston for RE, Proskauer for PE, S&W for tax, etc)

[Anonymous User]

Any anecdotal word on how Choate handled the recession? How were layoffs handled? Did morale hold up?

Also, thoughts on work/life balance at Choate would be appreciated (particularly w/r/t litigation associates).

Basically, any thoughts on Choate at all! I have an offer there that I'm excited about, but I want to get a firm grasp on the place before I accept it.

edit: the above "tiered" list of Boston firms is TCR, in my understanding, with some variations based on practice area (Goulston for RE, Proskauer for PE, S&W for tax, etc)

Am in same position and would also love to hear what people think. Also, despite what NALP says, my offer letter says that first years at Choate make 160K.

[Anonymous User]

What about Holland & Knight?

[Blindmelon]

Any anecdotal word on how Choate handled the recession? How were layoffs handled? Did morale hold up?

Also, thoughts on work/life balance at Choate would be appreciated (particularly w/r/t litigation associates).

Basically, any thoughts on Choate at all! I have an offer there that I'm excited about, but I want to get a firm grasp on the place before I accept it.

edit: the above "tiered" list of Boston firms is TCR, in my understanding, with some variations based on practice area (Goulston for RE, Proskauer for PE, S&W for tax, etc)

Am in same position and would also love to hear what people think. Also, despite what NALP says, my offer letter says that first years at Choate make 160K.

I meant only Nutter pays below market. Both Foley/Choate pay 160k. I guess I'll be seeing all of you at the Choate dinner tomorrow?

[Anonymous User]

I'll be at the dinner... I'm curious to see how many people they offered to get a class of 12-15. Ropes and Wilmer both have their offer dinners tomorrow night too, so that could affect turnout.

[Anonymous User]

What about Holland & Knight?

H&K fits into the Goulston/Mintz/EAPD tier... well-established office, solid in litigation (esp healthcare stuff). A "lifestyle" place.... I hear good things.

[Anonymous User]

What about Holland & Knight?

H&K fits into the Goulston/Mintz/EAPD tier... well-established office, solid in litigation (esp healthcare stuff). A "lifestyle" place.... I hear good things.

Thanks! I have heard good things as well. I have a couple offers but like H&K the best...want to make sure the pay difference is worth it though.

[KMaine]

Where might Nixon Peabody fit into the mix of Boston firms? I believe Boston is their home office.

[Anonymous User]

I'll be at the dinner... I'm curious to see how many people they offered to get a class of 12-15. Ropes and Wilmer both have their offer dinners tomorrow night too, so that could affect turnout.

Wilmer is also having a dinner the week after. So its not a total overlap.

[Anonymous User]

OP - What are the important factors in your decision? I guess you care about the financial health of the firm. Anything else?

For one thing, I'm not looking for "exit options." Although I know the chances of making partner are slim everywhere, I would at least want to be someplace where I could make a go of it. Which would probably make Bingham the least desirable of the options.

Quality of life is very important to me too, which would probably also make Bingham the least desirable of the options.

But that said, I liked the associates I met at Bingham the most out of all the associates I met at my callbacks (S&W's were a close second). I felt like I had the most in common with them personality wise.

So much conflicting information!

You should be thinking about exit options. You are insane not to think about it. Chances are extremely slim that you will stay there long term. It's almost as much of a stretch as counting on being in the top 5% for law school when you enter. Think about exit options. It doesn't mean you aren't committed to your firm - it means you are being realistic. Do not go into a big firm wide eyed or they will eat you alive.

I think the clear choice is Bingham, though I don't know a ton about Choate. Bingham has a national presence and should give better exit options. Plus, if you ever want to move to another city, you are worse off with Choate. I would base a lot of it on their current deferrals too - not sure where Bingham/Choate stand.

The rest of the firms are not in the same ballpark as far as litigation. Stay the hell away from EAPD and Goulston if you can - neither are doing well. Have heard Mintz isn't doing well either... at least they weren't a few months ago.

[Blindmelon]

Echo the above, I would narrow it down to Foley/Choate/Bingham. Foley/Choate are pretty much the same prestige-wise I believe. If you have offers from those three, I don't think the rest are really worth it.

[Anonymous User]

These tiers people are posting are terrible. I'd list as follows (graduated, working at a large firm).

Tier 1: Ropes/Wilmer/Goodwin/Bingham (in that order)
Tier 2: Foley Hoag/Proskauer/Choate
Tier 3: Mintz/Nixon Peabody/K&L Gates/Nutter/Brown Rudnick
Tier 4: Goulston/Seyfarth Shaw/S&W/EAPD

Skadden and Weil are tier 1 too, but their offices are so small in Boston their presence is really minimal. I'd probably take Weil over any tier 1's though. I don't think I'd ever take Skadden because of their reputation of insane type A's who are screamers.

Really only tier 1 is that different in terms of prestige. Boston firms are somewhat interchangeable (generally speaking - though can vary greatly by practice group) because Boston is a medium-market city. There is not the same tiers of big name clients that exist in big-market cities. I'd venture to say that tier 2 and tier 3 are pretty much the same. You're going to get quality work at any of the tiers, but probably slightly more prestigious exit options from tier 1.

You might want to rank the firms differently in terms of pay, stability, hours (some are sweatshops) and start dates, but this is something totally separate from quality of work and exit options.

For what it's worth, I liked Weil, Ropes, Wilmer, Nixon, Nutter the best of the firms I interviewed with. I didn't interview with all, but with most. Listen to the vibe you get when you go on the callbacks. Pay attention to the demeanor of your interviewers and people in the hallways. You'll excel more at a firm where you feel comfortable because you'll get along better with partners.

[Anonymous User]

I'm between Choate and Wilmer right now - Choate because of the small size/everyone knows each other feel, and Wilmer because its considered (along with Ropes) to be the best Boston firm. I don't know if that really makes the exit options that much better.

Wilmer. No brainer.

[Anonymous User]

I'd probably take Weil over any tier 1's though.

I'd love to hear your reasoning for this choice. Thanks!

[Blindmelon]

I'm between Choate and Wilmer right now - Choate because of the small size/everyone knows each other feel, and Wilmer because its considered (along with Ropes) to be the best Boston firm. I don't know if that really makes the exit options that much better.

Wilmer. No brainer.

Why do you say that?

[Anonymous User]

I'd probably take Weil over any tier 1's though.

I'd love to hear your reasoning for this choice. Thanks!

Smaller office, extremely high quality work. You'll be playing second fiddle to NY... which is a drawback, but Weil provides the kind of big deals/cases that you probably won't see in Boston. Weil is arguably #1 in country for certain practice groups.

[Anonymous User]

I'm between Choate and Wilmer right now - Choate because of the small size/everyone knows each other feel, and Wilmer because its considered (along with Ropes) to be the best Boston firm. I don't know if that really makes the exit options that much better.

Wilmer. No brainer.

Why do you say that?

Wilmer is just in a different league - better reputation nationally and within Boston. Exit options will be better (generally speaking).

[Anonymous User]

I think within Boston, all of the top firms have excellent exit options to other Boston firms (including the top ones).

Similarly, even though many top Boston firms have primarily regional reputations, major national firms are not unfamiliar with them--exit options are good all around.

[Anonymous User]

I'd probably take Weil over any tier 1's though.

I'd love to hear your reasoning for this choice. Thanks!

Smaller office, extremely high quality work. You'll be playing second fiddle to NY... which is a drawback, but Weil provides the kind of big deals/cases that you probably won't see in Boston. Weil is arguably #1 in country for certain practice groups.

Any concern that if you don't wind up liking PE transactions, you'll be stuck in a practice area you're not a fan of and only learning skills relating to that area (thus hurting your prospects to lateral and switch practice areas)?

[Anonymous User]

Valid concern, but one I don't share.