Striking out at OCI- a frank discussion

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OperaSoprano
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Striking out at OCI- a frank discussion

Postby OperaSoprano » Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:01 pm

I am posting this because there is a fairly strong stigma attached to striking out, and I hope by speaking, I can start a conversation that doesn't devolve into "ZOmg, you struck out!!! You must have no social skills and not know how to dress yourself!" :lol:

I know many 2Ls at solid and even great schools did not get anything from OCI, and I was one of them. OCI was not in my original plan, so I am not broken up over it, though I could have used the money to pay down debt. The truth is that a big firm would likely have been a horrible place for me. I am interning in the legal department at a company I love, and it's the kind of place where creativity is always welcome. My goal now is to find a position like this immediately post graduation, as a few companies do hire new graduates, or work in a smaller firm or nonprofit to gain further experience first. I was at a nonprofit last summer, and part time last year, and liked it very much.

I don't think students who strike out should waste time blaming themselves. If you have 1L academic achievements you are proud of, researched the firms, and did your best to be charming and courteous during interviews, you likely have many good things going for you already. The /self jokes are amusing but not really applicable. If you struck out, it was not necessarily something you did, and even if mistakes were made, there is likely something useful to learn. Others will probably want to stay anonymous, but I would like to hear your thoughts. Have you taken further steps? Found something else you are passionate about? I am very glad I did OCI, because I learned an enormous amount about what I most value, and met some terrific people along the way.

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Re: Striking out at OCI- a frank discussion

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:39 pm

I struck out last year as a t10 transfer. If there's one piece of advice I can give from my experience is to GET A 2L SUMMER ASSOCIATESHIP at a large firm. I don't care what you have to do to get that position, but just make sure you get a 2L summer associateship. It doesn't even matter if you want to work at a law firm when you graduate. It's really the only way to have some type of legal job locked up after your 2L summer because being a jobless 3L is a really, really bad position to be in. I was #2 at my old school, and am in the top 10% at this t10 (but no law review or journal), and even with that I feel like the odds that I won't find any paying legal job, in the market I want, after I graduate are pretty high just based on how my job search has gone so far this year. I applied to nearly 700 federal judges and only got one interview, which got canceled because the judge hired someone else. I applied to nearly 500 state court judges (state supreme court and appellate courts) and I got 4 interviews out of that but no offers (most of those judges seemed to be using career or at least long-term clerks, so I think it was mostly wasted time/money applying to those). I applied to a TON of law firms (at least 1500), and got a good number of interviews from most of the v20 firms (and a few randoms -- e.g. a small boutique firm, and a couple v100 firms), but an offer for 2012 at any of those were all contingent on me actually getting a clerkship, which I didn't. I also applied to all the federal government agencies that have 3L honors programs and haven't heard anything back from any of those yet.

Summary: If you are a 2L now, do whatever you can possibly do to ensure you GET A 2L SUMMER ASSOCIATESHIP!!!! Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it's absolutely brutal out there, and even more so if you are looking to live in a major market.

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Re: Striking out at OCI- a frank discussion

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I struck out last year as a t10 transfer. If there's one piece of advice I can give from my experience is to GET A 2L SUMMER ASSOCIATESHIP at a large firm. I don't care what you have to do to get that position, but just make sure you get a 2L summer associateship. It doesn't even matter if you want to work at a law firm when you graduate. It's really the only way to have some type of legal job locked up after your 2L summer because being a jobless 3L is a really, really bad position to be in. I was #2 at my old school, and am in the top 10% at this t10 (but no law review or journal), and even with that I feel like the odds that I won't find any paying legal job, in the market I want, after I graduate are pretty high just based on how my job search has gone so far this year. I applied to nearly 700 federal judges and only got one interview, which got canceled because the judge hired someone else. I applied to nearly 500 state court judges (state supreme court and appellate courts) and I got 4 interviews out of that but no offers (most of those judges seemed to be using career or at least long-term clerks, so I think it was mostly wasted time/money applying to those). I applied to a TON of law firms (at least 1500), and got a good number of interviews from most of the v20 firms (and a few randoms -- e.g. a small boutique firm, and a couple v100 firms), but an offer for 2012 at any of those were all contingent on me actually getting a clerkship, which I didn't. I also applied to all the federal government agencies that have 3L honors programs and haven't heard anything back from any of those yet.

Summary: If you are a 2L now, do whatever you can possibly do to ensure you GET A 2L SUMMER ASSOCIATESHIP!!!! Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it's absolutely brutal out there, and even more so if you are looking to live in a major market.


wow. are you for real? what about those of us who want to work in-house after graduation?

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Re: Striking out at OCI- a frank discussion

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I struck out last year as a t10 transfer. If there's one piece of advice I can give from my experience is to GET A 2L SUMMER ASSOCIATESHIP at a large firm. I don't care what you have to do to get that position, but just make sure you get a 2L summer associateship. It doesn't even matter if you want to work at a law firm when you graduate. It's really the only way to have some type of legal job locked up after your 2L summer because being a jobless 3L is a really, really bad position to be in. I was #2 at my old school, and am in the top 10% at this t10 (but no law review or journal), and even with that I feel like the odds that I won't find any paying legal job, in the market I want, after I graduate are pretty high just based on how my job search has gone so far this year. I applied to nearly 700 federal judges and only got one interview, which got canceled because the judge hired someone else. I applied to nearly 500 state court judges (state supreme court and appellate courts) and I got 4 interviews out of that but no offers (most of those judges seemed to be using career or at least long-term clerks, so I think it was mostly wasted time/money applying to those). I applied to a TON of law firms (at least 1500), and got a good number of interviews from most of the v20 firms (and a few randoms -- e.g. a small boutique firm, and a couple v100 firms), but an offer for 2012 at any of those were all contingent on me actually getting a clerkship, which I didn't. I also applied to all the federal government agencies that have 3L honors programs and haven't heard anything back from any of those yet.

Summary: If you are a 2L now, do whatever you can possibly do to ensure you GET A 2L SUMMER ASSOCIATESHIP!!!! Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it's absolutely brutal out there, and even more so if you are looking to live in a major market.


wow. are you for real? what about those of us who want to work in-house after graduation?


there's no such thing as "working in-house after graduation," at least not in a major market. In-house positions are for 3-6 year big firm associates who actually know how law is practiced. No corporation I know of hires for in-house positions (outside of unpaid internships) straight out of law school.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Striking out at OCI- a frank discussion

Postby OperaSoprano » Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I struck out last year as a t10 transfer. If there's one piece of advice I can give from my experience is to GET A 2L SUMMER ASSOCIATESHIP at a large firm. I don't care what you have to do to get that position, but just make sure you get a 2L summer associateship. It doesn't even matter if you want to work at a law firm when you graduate. It's really the only way to have some type of legal job locked up after your 2L summer because being a jobless 3L is a really, really bad position to be in. I was #2 at my old school, and am in the top 10% at this t10 (but no law review or journal), and even with that I feel like the odds that I won't find any paying legal job, in the market I want, after I graduate are pretty high just based on how my job search has gone so far this year. I applied to nearly 700 federal judges and only got one interview, which got canceled because the judge hired someone else. I applied to nearly 500 state court judges (state supreme court and appellate courts) and I got 4 interviews out of that but no offers (most of those judges seemed to be using career or at least long-term clerks, so I think it was mostly wasted time/money applying to those). I applied to a TON of law firms (at least 1500), and got a good number of interviews from most of the v20 firms (and a few randoms -- e.g. a small boutique firm, and a couple v100 firms), but an offer for 2012 at any of those were all contingent on me actually getting a clerkship, which I didn't. I also applied to all the federal government agencies that have 3L honors programs and haven't heard anything back from any of those yet.

Summary: If you are a 2L now, do whatever you can possibly do to ensure you GET A 2L SUMMER ASSOCIATESHIP!!!! Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it's absolutely brutal out there, and even more so if you are looking to live in a major market.


I absolutely understand, and it's that desire to have my future mapped out for me (IE: a 2L summer job designed to lead to something permanent) that made me do OCI in the first place. Lack of certainty is the one thing I don't love about my position. If I could stay on where I am, I would be very, very happy! I am definitely not wed to any one career idea, and the idea of returning to that field (even in a nonlegal capacity, though I like the legal work I've been doing) suits me fine, actually. Out of curiosity, though, why were all those firms so insistent that you first get a clerkship? Was it because of lack of space in their entering first year associate classes? I know some firms do have this requirement, but understood them to be a small minority.

deadhipsters
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Re: Striking out at OCI- a frank discussion

Postby deadhipsters » Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:55 pm

I could be wrong, but I have heard of one person working in-house for Goldman Sachs after graduation. I would imagine it would require some financial background and an internship.

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Re: Striking out at OCI- a frank discussion

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:56 pm

deadhipsters wrote:I could be wrong, but I have heard of one person working in-house for Goldman Sachs after graduation. I would imagine it would require some financial background and an internship.


I'm a 3L who worked an SA in NYC last summer, and I've seriously never heard of this.

lawschool7777
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Re: Striking out at OCI- a frank discussion

Postby lawschool7777 » Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:56 pm

Hewlett Packard is starting a program where it takes students right out of law school for its in house program, but I think you need to go to a T10 and do pretty well to have a shot

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Striking out at OCI- a frank discussion

Postby OperaSoprano » Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I struck out last year as a t10 transfer. If there's one piece of advice I can give from my experience is to GET A 2L SUMMER ASSOCIATESHIP at a large firm. I don't care what you have to do to get that position, but just make sure you get a 2L summer associateship. It doesn't even matter if you want to work at a law firm when you graduate. It's really the only way to have some type of legal job locked up after your 2L summer because being a jobless 3L is a really, really bad position to be in. I was #2 at my old school, and am in the top 10% at this t10 (but no law review or journal), and even with that I feel like the odds that I won't find any paying legal job, in the market I want, after I graduate are pretty high just based on how my job search has gone so far this year. I applied to nearly 700 federal judges and only got one interview, which got canceled because the judge hired someone else. I applied to nearly 500 state court judges (state supreme court and appellate courts) and I got 4 interviews out of that but no offers (most of those judges seemed to be using career or at least long-term clerks, so I think it was mostly wasted time/money applying to those). I applied to a TON of law firms (at least 1500), and got a good number of interviews from most of the v20 firms (and a few randoms -- e.g. a small boutique firm, and a couple v100 firms), but an offer for 2012 at any of those were all contingent on me actually getting a clerkship, which I didn't. I also applied to all the federal government agencies that have 3L honors programs and haven't heard anything back from any of those yet.

Summary: If you are a 2L now, do whatever you can possibly do to ensure you GET A 2L SUMMER ASSOCIATESHIP!!!! Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it's absolutely brutal out there, and even more so if you are looking to live in a major market.


wow. are you for real? what about those of us who want to work in-house after graduation?


there's no such thing as "working in-house after graduation," at least not in a major market. In-house positions are for 3-6 year big firm associates who actually know how law is practiced. No corporation I know of hires for in-house positions (outside of unpaid internships) straight out of law school.


Not strictly true, although it's not the most common path. One of the attorneys here (a fairly large, publicly traded company) was hired directly from school last year, and has friends who landed similar positions. (This person did not go to a T14, though the school is well respected.) The issue is it really is a matter of connections/networking/luck, and in this case, specific knowledge of this industry.

deadhipsters
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Re: Striking out at OCI- a frank discussion

Postby deadhipsters » Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:57 pm

--LinkRemoved--

The person I mentioned had I-banking experience and I'm 70% sure they took a position with GS after the internship.
Last edited by deadhipsters on Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Striking out at OCI- a frank discussion

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I struck out last year as a t10 transfer. If there's one piece of advice I can give from my experience is to GET A 2L SUMMER ASSOCIATESHIP at a large firm. I don't care what you have to do to get that position, but just make sure you get a 2L summer associateship. It doesn't even matter if you want to work at a law firm when you graduate. It's really the only way to have some type of legal job locked up after your 2L summer because being a jobless 3L is a really, really bad position to be in. I was #2 at my old school, and am in the top 10% at this t10 (but no law review or journal), and even with that I feel like the odds that I won't find any paying legal job, in the market I want, after I graduate are pretty high just based on how my job search has gone so far this year. I applied to nearly 700 federal judges and only got one interview, which got canceled because the judge hired someone else. I applied to nearly 500 state court judges (state supreme court and appellate courts) and I got 4 interviews out of that but no offers (most of those judges seemed to be using career or at least long-term clerks, so I think it was mostly wasted time/money applying to those). I applied to a TON of law firms (at least 1500), and got a good number of interviews from most of the v20 firms (and a few randoms -- e.g. a small boutique firm, and a couple v100 firms), but an offer for 2012 at any of those were all contingent on me actually getting a clerkship, which I didn't. I also applied to all the federal government agencies that have 3L honors programs and haven't heard anything back from any of those yet.

Summary: If you are a 2L now, do whatever you can possibly do to ensure you GET A 2L SUMMER ASSOCIATESHIP!!!! Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it's absolutely brutal out there, and even more so if you are looking to live in a major market.



JESUS. I'm frightened. I have no summer offers.

Anonymous User
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Re: Striking out at OCI- a frank discussion

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I struck out last year as a t10 transfer. If there's one piece of advice I can give from my experience is to GET A 2L SUMMER ASSOCIATESHIP at a large firm. I don't care what you have to do to get that position, but just make sure you get a 2L summer associateship. It doesn't even matter if you want to work at a law firm when you graduate. It's really the only way to have some type of legal job locked up after your 2L summer because being a jobless 3L is a really, really bad position to be in. I was #2 at my old school, and am in the top 10% at this t10 (but no law review or journal), and even with that I feel like the odds that I won't find any paying legal job, in the market I want, after I graduate are pretty high just based on how my job search has gone so far this year. I applied to nearly 700 federal judges and only got one interview, which got canceled because the judge hired someone else. I applied to nearly 500 state court judges (state supreme court and appellate courts) and I got 4 interviews out of that but no offers (most of those judges seemed to be using career or at least long-term clerks, so I think it was mostly wasted time/money applying to those). I applied to a TON of law firms (at least 1500), and got a good number of interviews from most of the v20 firms (and a few randoms -- e.g. a small boutique firm, and a couple v100 firms), but an offer for 2012 at any of those were all contingent on me actually getting a clerkship, which I didn't. I also applied to all the federal government agencies that have 3L honors programs and haven't heard anything back from any of those yet.

Summary: If you are a 2L now, do whatever you can possibly do to ensure you GET A 2L SUMMER ASSOCIATESHIP!!!! Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it's absolutely brutal out there, and even more so if you are looking to live in a major market.


wow. are you for real? what about those of us who want to work in-house after graduation?


there's no such thing as "working in-house after graduation," at least not in a major market. In-house positions are for 3-6 year big firm associates who actually know how law is practiced. No corporation I know of hires for in-house positions (outside of unpaid internships) straight out of law school.


This. There are some corporations that will hire right out of law school, but it's rare and not something you can plan on doing. Biglaw is typically the prerequisite to going in-house.

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Re: Striking out at OCI- a frank discussion

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:01 pm

deadhipsters wrote:http://www2.goldmansachs.com/careers/our-firm/divisions/lia/positions/intern.html


But see --LinkRemoved--

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Re: Striking out at OCI- a frank discussion

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I struck out last year as a t10 transfer. If there's one piece of advice I can give from my experience is to GET A 2L SUMMER ASSOCIATESHIP at a large firm. I don't care what you have to do to get that position, but just make sure you get a 2L summer associateship. It doesn't even matter if you want to work at a law firm when you graduate. It's really the only way to have some type of legal job locked up after your 2L summer because being a jobless 3L is a really, really bad position to be in. I was #2 at my old school, and am in the top 10% at this t10 (but no law review or journal), and even with that I feel like the odds that I won't find any paying legal job, in the market I want, after I graduate are pretty high just based on how my job search has gone so far this year. I applied to nearly 700 federal judges and only got one interview, which got canceled because the judge hired someone else. I applied to nearly 500 state court judges (state supreme court and appellate courts) and I got 4 interviews out of that but no offers (most of those judges seemed to be using career or at least long-term clerks, so I think it was mostly wasted time/money applying to those). I applied to a TON of law firms (at least 1500), and got a good number of interviews from most of the v20 firms (and a few randoms -- e.g. a small boutique firm, and a couple v100 firms), but an offer for 2012 at any of those were all contingent on me actually getting a clerkship, which I didn't. I also applied to all the federal government agencies that have 3L honors programs and haven't heard anything back from any of those yet.

Summary: If you are a 2L now, do whatever you can possibly do to ensure you GET A 2L SUMMER ASSOCIATESHIP!!!! Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it's absolutely brutal out there, and even more so if you are looking to live in a major market.


wow. are you for real? what about those of us who want to work in-house after graduation?


there's no such thing as "working in-house after graduation," at least not in a major market. In-house positions are for 3-6 year big firm associates who actually know how law is practiced. No corporation I know of hires for in-house positions (outside of unpaid internships) straight out of law school.


This. There are some corporations that will hire right out of law school, but it's rare and not something you can plan on doing. Biglaw is typically the prerequisite to going in-house.


are you basically saying that if you don't get a 2L SA you're pretty much F'd?

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Re: Striking out at OCI- a frank discussion

Postby KamaalTheAbstract » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:02 pm

wow. are you for real? what about those of us who want to work in-house after graduation?[/quote]

there's no such thing as "working in-house after graduation," at least not in a major market. In-house positions are for 3-6 year big firm associates who actually know how law is practiced. No corporation I know of hires for in-house positions (outside of unpaid internships) straight out of law school.[/quote]

Procter & Gamble does.

Anonymous User
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Re: Striking out at OCI- a frank discussion

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:are you basically saying that if you don't get a 2L SA you're pretty much F'd?


if you're looking for an upper middle class existence in NYC, Chicago, LA, etc., unfortunately, the answer is probably (at least in the short to medium term)

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matty
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Re: Striking out at OCI- a frank discussion

Postby matty » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:06 pm

KamaalTheAbstract wrote:wow. are you for real? what about those of us who want to work in-house after graduation?


there's no such thing as "working in-house after graduation," at least not in a major market. In-house positions are for 3-6 year big firm associates who actually know how law is practiced. No corporation I know of hires for in-house positions (outside of unpaid internships) straight out of law school.[/quote]

Procter & Gamble does.[/quote]
For Christ's sake, people. Stop bringing up these anecdotal exceptions. The vast weight of statistical evidence will tell you that, by and large, those in-house guys transfer in from big firms.

are you basically saying that if you don't get a 2L SA you're pretty much F'd?

No, life isn't over. But you're going to have to keep your grades up and hope against hope to get something at 3L OCI, or otherwise start thinking creatively and looking at other options.

Anonymous User
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Re: Striking out at OCI- a frank discussion

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:07 pm

OperaSoprano wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I struck out last year as a t10 transfer. If there's one piece of advice I can give from my experience is to GET A 2L SUMMER ASSOCIATESHIP at a large firm. I don't care what you have to do to get that position, but just make sure you get a 2L summer associateship. It doesn't even matter if you want to work at a law firm when you graduate. It's really the only way to have some type of legal job locked up after your 2L summer because being a jobless 3L is a really, really bad position to be in. I was #2 at my old school, and am in the top 10% at this t10 (but no law review or journal), and even with that I feel like the odds that I won't find any paying legal job, in the market I want, after I graduate are pretty high just based on how my job search has gone so far this year. I applied to nearly 700 federal judges and only got one interview, which got canceled because the judge hired someone else. I applied to nearly 500 state court judges (state supreme court and appellate courts) and I got 4 interviews out of that but no offers (most of those judges seemed to be using career or at least long-term clerks, so I think it was mostly wasted time/money applying to those). I applied to a TON of law firms (at least 1500), and got a good number of interviews from most of the v20 firms (and a few randoms -- e.g. a small boutique firm, and a couple v100 firms), but an offer for 2012 at any of those were all contingent on me actually getting a clerkship, which I didn't. I also applied to all the federal government agencies that have 3L honors programs and haven't heard anything back from any of those yet.

Summary: If you are a 2L now, do whatever you can possibly do to ensure you GET A 2L SUMMER ASSOCIATESHIP!!!! Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it's absolutely brutal out there, and even more so if you are looking to live in a major market.


I absolutely understand, and it's that desire to have my future mapped out for me (IE: a 2L summer job designed to lead to something permanent) that made me do OCI in the first place. Lack of certainty is the one thing I don't love about my position. If I could stay on where I am, I would be very, very happy! I am definitely not wed to any one career idea, and the idea of returning to that field (even in a nonlegal capacity, though I like the legal work I've been doing) suits me fine, actually. Out of curiosity, though, why were all those firms so insistent that you first get a clerkship? Was it because of lack of space in their entering first year associate classes? I know some firms do have this requirement, but understood them to be a small minority.


Because for the most part no firms hire 3Ls (since they have more than enough people in their 2L summer classes to do their entry level hiring). There were something like 13 law firms that came to my t10 that were willing to look at 3Ls at all. There are some exceptions, such as Kirkland, and Paul Weiss, W&C, etc that were hiring 3Ls but it is extremely competitive. You essentially have to have an offer at another large firm (or at least have worked at one), show that you for sure want to work in the open practice area that is open (and many firms don't tell you what areas they are seeking 3Ls for), and have to have KILLER stats. I had a few drinks with a couple recruiters after last summer and they just gave me the down-low and it was brutal. Basically one thing that was killing me for 3L hiring was that I worked at "johhny's law firm" my 2L summer so that put me a huge gap behind someone who worked at a major law firm 2L summer. Also, the competition was insane (e.g. the recruiter told me that there were two 3L spots open, and he was currently looking at someone who was a top 1% at CCN, on the executive board of law review, worked at v20 firm last summer, and a bunch of other stuff).

Long story short- I think the insistence on a clerkship, for the most part, was to fill the gap for the year since the firms didn't have any space in their first year associate class.

deadhipsters
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Re: Striking out at OCI- a frank discussion

Postby deadhipsters » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
deadhipsters wrote:http://www2.goldmansachs.com/careers/our-firm/divisions/lia/positions/intern.html


But see --LinkRemoved--



Right, I think the position that he got was legal analyst.
Which doesnt require a JD, but probably pays well. It was also several years ago. So, who knows. But theres that:

--LinkRemoved--

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Re: Striking out at OCI- a frank discussion

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:10 pm

matty wrote:No, life isn't over. But you're going to have to keep your grades up and hope against hope to get something at 3L OCI, or otherwise start thinking creatively and looking at other options.


God this is so naive. See my last post... It's rough out there.

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Re: Striking out at OCI- a frank discussion

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I struck out last year as a t10 transfer. If there's one piece of advice I can give from my experience is to GET A 2L SUMMER ASSOCIATESHIP at a large firm. I don't care what you have to do to get that position, but just make sure you get a 2L summer associateship. It doesn't even matter if you want to work at a law firm when you graduate. It's really the only way to have some type of legal job locked up after your 2L summer because being a jobless 3L is a really, really bad position to be in. I was #2 at my old school, and am in the top 10% at this t10 (but no law review or journal), and even with that I feel like the odds that I won't find any paying legal job, in the market I want, after I graduate are pretty high just based on how my job search has gone so far this year. I applied to nearly 700 federal judges and only got one interview, which got canceled because the judge hired someone else. I applied to nearly 500 state court judges (state supreme court and appellate courts) and I got 4 interviews out of that but no offers (most of those judges seemed to be using career or at least long-term clerks, so I think it was mostly wasted time/money applying to those). I applied to a TON of law firms (at least 1500), and got a good number of interviews from most of the v20 firms (and a few randoms -- e.g. a small boutique firm, and a couple v100 firms), but an offer for 2012 at any of those were all contingent on me actually getting a clerkship, which I didn't. I also applied to all the federal government agencies that have 3L honors programs and haven't heard anything back from any of those yet.

Summary: If you are a 2L now, do whatever you can possibly do to ensure you GET A 2L SUMMER ASSOCIATESHIP!!!! Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it's absolutely brutal out there, and even more so if you are looking to live in a major market.

Well, yes, this is all very true, but I think you're missing the point. This isn't the point of contention, but that it is extremely hard if you struck out the OCI.

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Re: Striking out at OCI- a frank discussion

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
matty wrote:No, life isn't over. But you're going to have to keep your grades up and hope against hope to get something at 3L OCI, or otherwise start thinking creatively and looking at other options.


God this is so naive. See my last post... It's rough out there.

Yeah, and I made it sound so easy too with my "hope against hope" phrasing :roll:

d'oh...didn't mean to make this anonymous. Also, I will add that despite how rough it is, I do know a few people with relatively unspectacular resumes who got something out of 3L OCI. One, for example, is at Ropes now.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Striking out at OCI- a frank discussion

Postby OperaSoprano » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:13 pm

matty wrote:
KamaalTheAbstract wrote:wow. are you for real? what about those of us who want to work in-house after graduation?


there's no such thing as "working in-house after graduation," at least not in a major market. In-house positions are for 3-6 year big firm associates who actually know how law is practiced. No corporation I know of hires for in-house positions (outside of unpaid internships) straight out of law school.


Procter & Gamble does.[/quote]
For Christ's sake, people. Stop bringing up these anecdotal exceptions. The vast weight of statistical evidence will tell you that, by and large, those in-house guys transfer in from big firms.

are you basically saying that if you don't get a 2L SA you're pretty much F'd?

No, life isn't over. But you're going to have to keep your grades up and hope against hope to get something at 3L OCI, or otherwise start thinking creatively and looking at other options.


Re: starting in house: no one is saying it's common, just that it can happen. Thinking creatively is TCR. One of my friends met someone who started in PR (as a new LS graduate) at the company she wanted to work for, and was able to move into the legal department. Is stuff like this statistically likely to happen? No, but it only takes once. It's been recommended on here before, but Guerilla Tactics to Getting the Legal Job of Your Dreams is fantastic for unorthodox advice.

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Re: Striking out at OCI- a frank discussion

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:15 pm

Guerilla Tactics to Getting the Legal Job of Your Dreams is fantastic for unorthodox advice.


lol
except that everybody uses it

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Kohinoor
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Re: Striking out at OCI- a frank discussion

Postby Kohinoor » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
matty wrote:No, life isn't over. But you're going to have to keep your grades up and hope against hope to get something at 3L OCI, or otherwise start thinking creatively and looking at other options.


God this is so naive. See my last post... It's rough out there.

I had an OCI interviewer tell me in very frank terms that the 3L window is essentially closed.




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