To Drop Out or Graduate?

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Anonymous User
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To Drop Out or Graduate?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:45 pm

I need some advice here as I'm struggling with this decision. I am Top 10% and law review at a T20 school. However, this has not helped me find a job for the summer. I've done 7 callbacks and have heard nothing good at this point. I still have a few things out there but based on my past response my hopes are not up at all.

I have also applied to a lot of less selective firms, especially in my home town. However, none of them will even give me a look and I'm assuming its because they think I will have better opportunities and won't actually come there. And they would be right if I had any better options. But at this point, it is looking like I will not.

The financial part of this is the hardest part. I want to be a lawyer. If I drop out I really have no idea what I would do. I could see myself starting my own business but I don't have the capital to do so right now. I'm already looking at 95k in student loans after I finish this semester including undergrad. If I finish my degree I'll be looking at 155k in loans. My only other chance at biglaw would be to do so after a clerkship. But, I'm going to be competiting for clerkships against all these people who already beat me out for jobs. Even after a clerkship, a biglaw job is not guaranteed anyway. So then I'll be spending another 60k in loans and I might dig myself a hole that is even deeper. I feel like it might be best to cut my losses at this point and stop throwing good money after bad...

Anonymous User
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Re: To Drop Out or Graduate?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:47 pm

I'm in the exact same boat; great stats at a good school, no job. I'm going to stick it out and see what happens.

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Kohinoor
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Re: To Drop Out or Graduate?

Postby Kohinoor » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I need some advice here as I'm struggling with this decision. I am Top 10% and law review at a T20 school. However, this has not helped me find a job for the summer. I've done 7 callbacks and have heard nothing good at this point. I still have a few things out there but based on my past response my hopes are not up at all.

I have also applied to a lot of less selective firms, especially in my home town. However, none of them will even give me a look and I'm assuming its because they think I will have better opportunities and won't actually come there. And they would be right if I had any better options. But at this point, it is looking like I will not.

The financial part of this is the hardest part. I want to be a lawyer. If I drop out I really have no idea what I would do. I could see myself starting my own business but I don't have the capital to do so right now. I'm already looking at 95k in student loans after I finish this semester including undergrad. If I finish my degree I'll be looking at 155k in loans. My only other chance at biglaw would be to do so after a clerkship. But, I'm going to be competiting for clerkships against all these people who already beat me out for jobs. Even after a clerkship, a biglaw job is not guaranteed anyway. So then I'll be spending another 60k in loans and I might dig myself a hole that is even deeper. I feel like it might be best to cut my losses at this point and stop throwing good money after bad...

Unless and perhaps even if those 7 callbacks came back as rejections, it sounds like you're doing very well and want people to feel sympathy for your false plight.

CanadianWolf
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Re: To Drop Out or Graduate?

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:52 pm

The US economy is cyclical so staying in school during the next year or two may be a wise choice. Do you plan to expand your job search next summer ?
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: To Drop Out or Graduate?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I need some advice here as I'm struggling with this decision. I am Top 10% and law review at a T20 school. However, this has not helped me find a job for the summer. I've done 7 callbacks and have heard nothing good at this point. I still have a few things out there but based on my past response my hopes are not up at all.

I have also applied to a lot of less selective firms, especially in my home town. However, none of them will even give me a look and I'm assuming its because they think I will have better opportunities and won't actually come there. And they would be right if I had any better options. But at this point, it is looking like I will not.

The financial part of this is the hardest part. I want to be a lawyer. If I drop out I really have no idea what I would do. I could see myself starting my own business but I don't have the capital to do so right now. I'm already looking at 95k in student loans after I finish this semester including undergrad. If I finish my degree I'll be looking at 155k in loans. My only other chance at biglaw would be to do so after a clerkship. But, I'm going to be competiting for clerkships against all these people who already beat me out for jobs. Even after a clerkship, a biglaw job is not guaranteed anyway. So then I'll be spending another 60k in loans and I might dig myself a hole that is even deeper. I feel like it might be best to cut my losses at this point and stop throwing good money after bad...
I am at a top 3 school and you have 4 more callbacks than I had, so STFU.

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Re: To Drop Out or Graduate?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I need some advice here as I'm struggling with this decision. I am Top 10% and law review at a T20 school. However, this has not helped me find a job for the summer. I've done 7 callbacks and have heard nothing good at this point. I still have a few things out there but based on my past response my hopes are not up at all.

I have also applied to a lot of less selective firms, especially in my home town. However, none of them will even give me a look and I'm assuming its because they think I will have better opportunities and won't actually come there. And they would be right if I had any better options. But at this point, it is looking like I will not.

The financial part of this is the hardest part. I want to be a lawyer. If I drop out I really have no idea what I would do. I could see myself starting my own business but I don't have the capital to do so right now. I'm already looking at 95k in student loans after I finish this semester including undergrad. If I finish my degree I'll be looking at 155k in loans. My only other chance at biglaw would be to do so after a clerkship. But, I'm going to be competiting for clerkships against all these people who already beat me out for jobs. Even after a clerkship, a biglaw job is not guaranteed anyway. So then I'll be spending another 60k in loans and I might dig myself a hole that is even deeper. I feel like it might be best to cut my losses at this point and stop throwing good money after bad...
I am at a top 3 school and you have 4 more callbacks than I had, so STFU.


I am actually surprised by the negative reaction to this. I'm not quite sure what good callbacks are when job offers don't come after them. I might as well have just struck out at OCI, at the end of the day I'm in the same position with no one wanting to hire me? Either way I wasn't looking for sympathy just wanted to get some thoughts on the situation but if this is the kind of response I'll get might as well keep it moving.

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Kohinoor
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Re: To Drop Out or Graduate?

Postby Kohinoor » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I need some advice here as I'm struggling with this decision. I am Top 10% and law review at a T20 school. However, this has not helped me find a job for the summer. I've done 7 callbacks and have heard nothing good at this point. I still have a few things out there but based on my past response my hopes are not up at all.

I have also applied to a lot of less selective firms, especially in my home town. However, none of them will even give me a look and I'm assuming its because they think I will have better opportunities and won't actually come there. And they would be right if I had any better options. But at this point, it is looking like I will not.

The financial part of this is the hardest part. I want to be a lawyer. If I drop out I really have no idea what I would do. I could see myself starting my own business but I don't have the capital to do so right now. I'm already looking at 95k in student loans after I finish this semester including undergrad. If I finish my degree I'll be looking at 155k in loans. My only other chance at biglaw would be to do so after a clerkship. But, I'm going to be competiting for clerkships against all these people who already beat me out for jobs. Even after a clerkship, a biglaw job is not guaranteed anyway. So then I'll be spending another 60k in loans and I might dig myself a hole that is even deeper. I feel like it might be best to cut my losses at this point and stop throwing good money after bad...

To synthesize:
Top 10% & LR at a T20
7 callbacks
complaining that other people will also apply for clerkships

Anonymous User
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Re: To Drop Out or Graduate?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:02 pm

I support you, OP. I have done 12 callbacks now and have not received an offer. It feels terrible knowing your personality is largely at fault.

boolaw
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Re: To Drop Out or Graduate?

Postby boolaw » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:03 pm

I don't understand why people are so unsympathetic. This is a really tough situation.

I would say just wait it out and see what happens. At least wait until you have received responses from all your callbacks. If you do get rejected from all of them, then you can reassess the situation. I know that a lot of firms did not hire enough summers last year and are now looking into the 3L classes in order to fill their needs. This might happen again next year, and you'd probably have an excellent chance since you have such good grades. Even though firms are hiring more this year, they are all "cautiously optimistic" and have only increased their summer classes by a small percentage.

Since you are striking out at the callback stage, most likely it's your interviewing skills that you need to work on. I would talk to your career services and see if they have any advice. I would definitely figure out what you should improve before you have to interview for clerkships or anything else.

In conclusion, just stick it out for now. Hopefully you'll have an offer in your pocket and you'll have worried for no reason.

Anonymous User
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Re: To Drop Out or Graduate?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:04 pm

Kohinoor wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I need some advice here as I'm struggling with this decision. I am Top 10% and law review at a T20 school. However, this has not helped me find a job for the summer. I've done 7 callbacks and have heard nothing good at this point. I still have a few things out there but based on my past response my hopes are not up at all.

I have also applied to a lot of less selective firms, especially in my home town. However, none of them will even give me a look and I'm assuming its because they think I will have better opportunities and won't actually come there. And they would be right if I had any better options. But at this point, it is looking like I will not.

The financial part of this is the hardest part. I want to be a lawyer. If I drop out I really have no idea what I would do. I could see myself starting my own business but I don't have the capital to do so right now. I'm already looking at 95k in student loans after I finish this semester including undergrad. If I finish my degree I'll be looking at 155k in loans. My only other chance at biglaw would be to do so after a clerkship. But, I'm going to be competiting for clerkships against all these people who already beat me out for jobs. Even after a clerkship, a biglaw job is not guaranteed anyway. So then I'll be spending another 60k in loans and I might dig myself a hole that is even deeper. I feel like it might be best to cut my losses at this point and stop throwing good money after bad...

To synthesize:
Top 10% & LR at a T20
7 callbacks
complaining that other people will also apply for clerkships


And 0 job offers. And I'm not complaining that other people apply for clerkships, but making the point that there must be something I am doing wrong to have the numbers to get a good job but not the result. I'm saying there is a decent chance whatever that problem is will hurt me in that process as well which is already extremely competitive. Not sure how saying I can't rely on getting a clerkship is wrong...that's reality.

Anonymous User
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Re: To Drop Out or Graduate?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I need some advice here as I'm struggling with this decision. I am Top 10% and law review at a T20 school. However, this has not helped me find a job for the summer. I've done 7 callbacks and have heard nothing good at this point. I still have a few things out there but based on my past response my hopes are not up at all.

I have also applied to a lot of less selective firms, especially in my home town. However, none of them will even give me a look and I'm assuming its because they think I will have better opportunities and won't actually come there. And they would be right if I had any better options. But at this point, it is looking like I will not.

The financial part of this is the hardest part. I want to be a lawyer. If I drop out I really have no idea what I would do. I could see myself starting my own business but I don't have the capital to do so right now. I'm already looking at 95k in student loans after I finish this semester including undergrad. If I finish my degree I'll be looking at 155k in loans. My only other chance at biglaw would be to do so after a clerkship. But, I'm going to be competiting for clerkships against all these people who already beat me out for jobs. Even after a clerkship, a biglaw job is not guaranteed anyway. So then I'll be spending another 60k in loans and I might dig myself a hole that is even deeper. I feel like it might be best to cut my losses at this point and stop throwing good money after bad...

To synthesize:
Top 10% & LR at a T20
7 callbacks
complaining that other people will also apply for clerkships


And 0 job offers. And I'm not complaining that other people apply for clerkships, but making the point that there must be something I am doing wrong to have the numbers to get a good job but not the result. I'm saying there is a decent chance whatever that problem is will hurt me in that process as well which is already extremely competitive. Not sure how saying I can't rely on getting a clerkship is wrong...that's reality.

How do you know? How long has it been since u went on callbacks? Offers can take 1-2 weeks, ya know? Have you actually been dinged at these 7 firms or are you just trying to brag about how many callbacks you've been on?

Anonymous User
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Re: To Drop Out or Graduate?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I need some advice here as I'm struggling with this decision. I am Top 10% and law review at a T20 school. However, this has not helped me find a job for the summer. I've done 7 callbacks and have heard nothing good at this point. I still have a few things out there but based on my past response my hopes are not up at all.

I have also applied to a lot of less selective firms, especially in my home town. However, none of them will even give me a look and I'm assuming its because they think I will have better opportunities and won't actually come there. And they would be right if I had any better options. But at this point, it is looking like I will not.

The financial part of this is the hardest part. I want to be a lawyer. If I drop out I really have no idea what I would do. I could see myself starting my own business but I don't have the capital to do so right now. I'm already looking at 95k in student loans after I finish this semester including undergrad. If I finish my degree I'll be looking at 155k in loans. My only other chance at biglaw would be to do so after a clerkship. But, I'm going to be competiting for clerkships against all these people who already beat me out for jobs. Even after a clerkship, a biglaw job is not guaranteed anyway. So then I'll be spending another 60k in loans and I might dig myself a hole that is even deeper. I feel like it might be best to cut my losses at this point and stop throwing good money after bad...

To synthesize:
Top 10% & LR at a T20
7 callbacks
complaining that other people will also apply for clerkships


And 0 job offers. And I'm not complaining that other people apply for clerkships, but making the point that there must be something I am doing wrong to have the numbers to get a good job but not the result. I'm saying there is a decent chance whatever that problem is will hurt me in that process as well which is already extremely competitive. Not sure how saying I can't rely on getting a clerkship is wrong...that's reality.

How do you know? How long has it been since u went on callbacks? Offers can take 1-2 weeks, ya know? Have you actually been dinged at these 7 firms or are you just trying to brag about how many callbacks you've been on?


I've been dinged 5 and the 2 I havent heard from I know of people going on callbacks after me and already getting offers. I know that doesn't necessarily mean a rejection is coming, but my 0-5 background does not make me hopeful.

hjd13
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Re: To Drop Out or Graduate?

Postby hjd13 » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:11 pm

Are you an aspie? The best thing you can do at this point is mass-spam resumes, cover letters and transcript if you haven't done so already.

Anonymous User
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Re: To Drop Out or Graduate?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:54 pm

Not sure why folks are drinking all the hatorade. I'm in a similar situation as OP -- grades not quite as good, school not quite as good, but 3 callbacks, 3 rejections. But OP -- I think dropping out is a bit hasty. Apply for clerkships, massmail like crazy (particularly secondary markets and midlaw firms). I managed to pick up an extra few screeners from massmailing, which hopefully will turn into callbacks.

Basically -- get your shit together and solve your problem. Moping about it won't help. You may get lucky and get an offer from one of your last two outstanding callbacks. But in case you don't, you need to be proactive.

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thexfactor
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Re: To Drop Out or Graduate?

Postby thexfactor » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I need some advice here as I'm struggling with this decision. I am Top 10% and law review at a T20 school. However, this has not helped me find a job for the summer. I've done 7 callbacks and have heard nothing good at this point. I still have a few things out there but based on my past response my hopes are not up at all.

I have also applied to a lot of less selective firms, especially in my home town. However, none of them will even give me a look and I'm assuming its because they think I will have better opportunities and won't actually come there. And they would be right if I had any better options. But at this point, it is looking like I will not.

The financial part of this is the hardest part. I want to be a lawyer. If I drop out I really have no idea what I would do. I could see myself starting my own business but I don't have the capital to do so right now. I'm already looking at 95k in student loans after I finish this semester including undergrad. If I finish my degree I'll be looking at 155k in loans. My only other chance at biglaw would be to do so after a clerkship. But, I'm going to be competiting for clerkships against all these people who already beat me out for jobs. Even after a clerkship, a biglaw job is not guaranteed anyway. So then I'll be spending another 60k in loans and I might dig myself a hole that is even deeper. I feel like it might be best to cut my losses at this point and stop throwing good money after bad...


so how is st louis this time of year?

Whateverdude
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Re: To Drop Out or Graduate?

Postby Whateverdude » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:00 pm

Don't get too far ahead of the game, man (or make rash decisions when you're feeling sorry for yourself). You're going to be fine, even if you are an "aspie."

Anonymous User
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Re: To Drop Out or Graduate?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:04 pm

How was the quality of your undergrad institution? That might be hurting you.

I feel for you, man. I was seriously thinking about dropping out, too, until an offer came. It's devastating to do everything you were told to do, and then feel like you're striking out.

I wouldn't recommend the law school path to anyone, and I'm one of the lucky ones who landed at biglaw for next summer.

Anonymous User
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Re: To Drop Out or Graduate?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How was the quality of your undergrad institution? That might be hurting you.

I feel for you, man. I was seriously thinking about dropping out, too, until an offer came. It's devastating to do everything you were told to do, and then feel like you're striking out.

I wouldn't recommend the law school path to anyone, and I'm one of the lucky ones who landed at biglaw for next summer.
I went to a restaurant and the waitress was thinking of going to Tulane law school because her boyfriend was going to live in NOLA. I couldn't help myself, I blurted out "don't do it." If I'm median at top 3 and can't find a job, I can't imagine what Tulane peeps are doing right now. Jesus, I thought T14 was supposed to be safe.

Turns out, guy next to me was some lawyer from Australia, he called me pessimistic and how people should just follow their passion, etc. Well, I may be pessimistic, but I think my pessimism is pretty justified. And following your passion is great, but I don't know very many people who are truly passionate about biglaw. Plus, passion doesn't exactly pay the bills.

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Re: To Drop Out or Graduate?

Postby Patriot1208 » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How was the quality of your undergrad institution? That might be hurting you.

I feel for you, man. I was seriously thinking about dropping out, too, until an offer came. It's devastating to do everything you were told to do, and then feel like you're striking out.

I wouldn't recommend the law school path to anyone, and I'm one of the lucky ones who landed at biglaw for next summer.
I went to a restaurant and the waitress was thinking of going to Tulane law school because her boyfriend was going to live in NOLA. I couldn't help myself, I blurted out "don't do it." If I'm median at top 3 and can't find a job, I can't imagine what Tulane peeps are doing right now. Jesus, I thought T14 was supposed to be safe.

Turns out, guy next to me was some lawyer from Australia, he called me pessimistic and how people should just follow their passion, etc. Well, I may be pessimistic, but I think my pessimism is pretty justified. And following your passion is great, but I don't know very many people who are truly passionate about biglaw. Plus, passion doesn't exactly pay the bills.


If you're median at a top 3 and can't find a job you are the absolute most boring/assholish person in the country, you smell like shit, and you can't dress yourself. You also probably started your answer to every question "While at Hawwwvvahd", "Hawwvvahd has shown me", and "Well that was before I was enlightened at Hawwvvahd"

Anonymous User
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Re: To Drop Out or Graduate?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How was the quality of your undergrad institution? That might be hurting you.

I feel for you, man. I was seriously thinking about dropping out, too, until an offer came. It's devastating to do everything you were told to do, and then feel like you're striking out.

I wouldn't recommend the law school path to anyone, and I'm one of the lucky ones who landed at biglaw for next summer.
I went to a restaurant and the waitress was thinking of going to Tulane law school because her boyfriend was going to live in NOLA. I couldn't help myself, I blurted out "don't do it." If I'm median at top 3 and can't find a job, I can't imagine what Tulane peeps are doing right now. Jesus, I thought T14 was supposed to be safe.

Turns out, guy next to me was some lawyer from Australia, he called me pessimistic and how people should just follow their passion, etc. Well, I may be pessimistic, but I think my pessimism is pretty justified. And following your passion is great, but I don't know very many people who are truly passionate about biglaw. Plus, passion doesn't exactly pay the bills.


To be fair, your experience is not all there is. I go to a school ranked in the 60's, and I am sitting on 3 Biglaw offers. But even if this were not so, you shouldn't really assume that everyone wants what you want (and would thus be disappointed with law school). I'm no optimist, but I think that your "advice," however well-intentioned, is a little presumptuous.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: To Drop Out or Graduate?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I wouldn't recommend the law school path to anyone, and I'm one of the lucky ones who landed at biglaw for next summer.
I went to a restaurant and the waitress was thinking of going to Tulane law school because her boyfriend was going to live in NOLA. I couldn't help myself, I blurted out "don't do it." If I'm median at top 3 and can't find a job, I can't imagine what Tulane peeps are doing right now. Jesus, I thought T14 was supposed to be safe.[/quote]

We are doing just fine, thank you.

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on_ne_sait_jamais
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Re: To Drop Out or Graduate?

Postby on_ne_sait_jamais » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:39 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I wouldn't recommend the law school path to anyone, and I'm one of the lucky ones who landed at biglaw for next summer.
I went to a restaurant and the waitress was thinking of going to Tulane law school because her boyfriend was going to live in NOLA. I couldn't help myself, I blurted out "don't do it." If I'm median at top 3 and can't find a job, I can't imagine what Tulane peeps are doing right now. Jesus, I thought T14 was supposed to be safe.


We are doing just fine, thank you.[/quote]

"we are doing just fine"??? The hell you are my friend... 10 people out of 200 with a REAL job is not just fine

Anonymous User
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Re: To Drop Out or Graduate?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:40 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:If you're median at a top 3 and can't find a job you are the absolute most boring/assholish person in the country, you smell like shit, and you can't dress yourself. You also probably started your answer to every question "While at Hawwwvvahd", "Hawwvvahd has shown me", and "Well that was before I was enlightened at Hawwvvahd"

Kind of an inferiority complex there?

Fine, so maybe I'm an aberration, maybe not. My sense is, more not. I wasn't bragging about going to a T3. Quite the opposite. If I had to do it again, I think I'd just give it some more thought, that's all. Law school is not the holy grail it used to be (if it ever was) - but certainly I think that the market and employment prospects have changed from what they were 20, 10, or even 3 years ago. If you're really passionate about the law, about going to law school, if you know that it's what you want to do no matter what, then fine. But if you're going because you have nothing else to do and think it's going to open a whole bunch of doors and that jobs are going to magically land at your feet, then you've got another thing coming. That was my point. So I was wrong to just advise this waitress to make sure that it's what she wanted to do and make sure to research the legal market before committing to a three year, $500K (with opportunity cost etc.) venture?
Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Whateverdude
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Re: To Drop Out or Graduate?

Postby Whateverdude » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:42 pm

[quote="Anonymous User"][quote="Anonymous User"]If I'm median at top 3 and can't find a job, I can't imagine what Tulane peeps are doing right now. Jesus, I thought T14 was supposed to be safe.

quote]

Pretty condescending. There are plenty of people who are not at a "top 3" (or even T14) who are doing just fine. Ever consider that it's just you?

Anonymous User
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Re: To Drop Out or Graduate?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:44 pm

Whateverdude wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If I'm median at top 3 and can't find a job, I can't imagine what Tulane peeps are doing right now. Jesus, I thought T14 was supposed to be safe.

quote]

Pretty condescending. There are plenty of people who are not at a "top 3" (or even T14) who are doing just fine. Ever consider that it's just you?
Yes. And I don't think it is. Plenty of people in the top 10%-50% depending on school are fine. I doubt that the bottom third of the class at any school is doing "just fine." And I very much doubt that, perhaps other than the top third or so, Tulane's class is doing "just fine." I guess it depends what one's goals are.




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