Ranking the Markets

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Person
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Ranking the Markets

Postby Person » Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:55 pm

I'd be interested to see people's impressions of how relatively competitive the markets were this year. This is probably entirely wrong-headed, but I think it might be worth a try anyway, because I had no idea going in that Chicago was going to be the bloodbath it was. I realize that many people did, and I should have looked into it more, but still, it might be useful for current 1Ls to see what people say.

Person
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Re: Ranking the Markets

Postby Person » Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:56 pm

My impression from the few markets I know anything about is, from easiest to hardest:

1. New York
2. Texas
3. California

[gap]

4. Chicago
5. D.C.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Ranking the Markets

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:57 pm

Person wrote:I'd be interested to see people's impressions of how relatively competitive the markets were this year. This is probably entirely wrong-headed, but I think it might be worth a try anyway, because I had no idea going in that Chicago was going to be the bloodbath it was. I realize that many people did, and I should have looked into it more, but still, it might be useful for current 1Ls to see what people say.


As far as difficulty getting positions in biglaw goes, in order of descending difficulty:

Chicago/DC (for different reasons) -> Texas/CA -> NYC (not that NYC firms aren't selective, but it's the only market that is still hiring a fair number of people)

Anonymous User
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Re: Ranking the Markets

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:00 pm

Person wrote:I'd be interested to see people's impressions of how relatively competitive the markets were this year. This is probably entirely wrong-headed, but I think it might be worth a try anyway, because I had no idea going in that Chicago was going to be the bloodbath it was. I realize that many people did, and I should have looked into it more, but still, it might be useful for current 1Ls to see what people say.


I got shut out at OCI targeting SF and DC (T14 well above median with decent WE; strong SF ties and good DC ties) ... so I've started mass-mailing Chicago. This list makes me go FML.

I have zero interest in NYC itself, but if I'd been smart I would have tacked on NYC bids. Or, hell, LA.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: Ranking the Markets

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:01 pm

DC was an absolute slaughter. I know DC destroyed my hopes and dreams. I'm sure it did the same to others too.

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dood
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Re: Ranking the Markets

Postby dood » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:03 pm

...
Last edited by dood on Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Ranking the Markets

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:03 pm

DC has always been the most difficult market as far as selectivity goes. Chicago is on the list for a different reason, obviously - the Chicago market is hurting, and the firms simply aren't taking that many people this year.

Edit:

My list isn't for me personally. I've never done an interview for anywhere aside from the Chicago market, with the exception of a "what the hell?" screener with Cravath that I didn't care about at all. I'm talking overall trends.

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Re: Ranking the Markets

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:05 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:DC has always been the most difficult market as far as selectivity goes. Chicago is on the list for a different reason, obviously - the Chicago market is hurting, and the firms simply aren't taking that many people this year.


I had thought DC would be NYC-esque. They have so many firms.

Career services should have an SOP of giving stern warnings to anyone who talks to them about a bidding strategy that doesn't include NYC or LA. Unless they have a devastating transcript and will get auto-CB'd.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Ranking the Markets

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:DC has always been the most difficult market as far as selectivity goes. Chicago is on the list for a different reason, obviously - the Chicago market is hurting, and the firms simply aren't taking that many people this year.


I had thought DC would be NYC-esque. They have so many firms.


Lots of firms, but generally smaller offices than NYC. They've always been able to demand much higher numbers, on the whole.

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Re: Ranking the Markets

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:10 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:Lots of firms, but generally smaller offices than NYC. They've always been able to demand much higher numbers, on the whole.


Maybe I'll mass-mail NYC and LA. ... ha ha. Yeah right.

Anonymous User
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Re: Ranking the Markets

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:11 pm

^^^ I concur with ToTransferOrNot.

DC is straight-up selective. Hogan is one of the less-selective big DC offices and is probably comparable to the lower V10 (STB, Weil, Kirkland).

Chicago is extremely picky about ties/fit. Once you get out of Kirkland/Sidley's grade range, you're targeting firms with tiny summer classes and it's easy to get shut-out even with grades that are in the ballpark.

Anonymous User
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Re: Ranking the Markets

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:Lots of firms, but generally smaller offices than NYC. They've always been able to demand much higher numbers, on the whole.


Maybe I'll mass-mail NYC and LA. ... ha ha. Yeah right.


I know someone who got an offer from Cravath as a 3L through a mass-mail. Just throwing that out there. At this point, if you're staring down no job, I would mass-mail every law firm in the country.

Anonymous User
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Re: Ranking the Markets

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:^^^ I concur with ToTransferOrNot.

DC is straight-up selective. Hogan is one of the less-selective big DC offices and is probably comparable to the lower V10 (STB, Weil, Kirkland).

Chicago is extremely picky about ties/fit. Once you get out of Kirkland/Sidley's grade range, you're targeting firms with tiny summer classes and it's easy to get shut-out even with grades that are in the ballpark.



This is precisely what I wish I knew going into OCI. If this thread helps just one person understand just this one point, I think it is actually going to be worth it. I got lucky, but I know it was just that: luck; and it could have been a complete fuck up because I did not understand this at all.

Anonymous User
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Re: Ranking the Markets

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:DC has always been the most difficult market as far as selectivity goes. Chicago is on the list for a different reason, obviously - the Chicago market is hurting, and the firms simply aren't taking that many people this year.


I had thought DC would be NYC-esque. They have so many firms.

Yes, but unfortunately most of those firms now have tiny class sizes, which means they can be extremely selective. After my experience bidding mostly on DC, I would advise everyone - even law review people - to use 1/3 or preferably 1/2 of their bids on NYC or another market that is not as competitive.

Person
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Re: Ranking the Markets

Postby Person » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:DC has always been the most difficult market as far as selectivity goes. Chicago is on the list for a different reason, obviously - the Chicago market is hurting, and the firms simply aren't taking that many people this year.


I had thought DC would be NYC-esque. They have so many firms.

Yes, but unfortunately most of those firms now have tiny class sizes, which means they can be extremely selective. After my experience bidding mostly on DC, I would advise everyone - even law review people - to use 1/3 or preferably 1/2 of their bids on NYC or another market that is not as competitive.



Credited. The risk of not getting a job at all is not worth the potential benefit of being where you want to be.

Anonymous User
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Re: Ranking the Markets

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:53 pm

I find it amusing that virtually all of my ties are to Chicago and I have been shut out of that market, while I have flimsy (or no) ties to DC and am waiting to hear after a callback there...

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Blindmelon
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Re: Ranking the Markets

Postby Blindmelon » Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:45 pm

Boston is rough rough rough this year. Outside of Ropes, Goodwin, and Wilmer, most big firms in the area's class sizes are around 2-10.

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Re: Ranking the Markets

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:48 pm

LA is easier than SF, did way better than sf people with similar profiles, and MUCH MORE Work experience.

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Re: Ranking the Markets

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:08 pm

I thought LA was tough if you didn't go to USC or UCLA - seems like the early OCI of those schools coupled with people who want to stay in CA made it very difficult to get in (NU/U Chicago student talking here)

Anonymous User
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Re: Ranking the Markets

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I thought LA was tough if you didn't go to USC or UCLA - seems like the early OCI of those schools coupled with people who want to stay in CA made it very difficult to get in (NU/U Chicago student talking here)


At my school (MVP), I believe LA was easy when compared to Chi/DC/SF. Firms like having diverse SA classes, aka students from different schools.

savagecheater
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Re: Ranking the Markets

Postby savagecheater » Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:28 pm

How is Philadelphia?

Anonymous User
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Re: Ranking the Markets

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I thought LA was tough if you didn't go to USC or UCLA - seems like the early OCI of those schools coupled with people who want to stay in CA made it very difficult to get in (NU/U Chicago student talking here)


At my school (MVP), I believe LA was easy when compared to Chi/DC/SF. Firms like having diverse SA classes, aka students from different schools.


Why is that? I'm not debating the correctness of this point, but it's always interested me.

Anonymous User
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Re: Ranking the Markets

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:39 pm

I got crushed in CA. That is all. Low level of preselects and zero callbacks. Blaming it on ties.




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