accepting then rejecting an offer

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Anonymous User
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accepting then rejecting an offer

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:18 pm

Can anyone tell me the consequences of accepting an offer from a firm then rejecting it in favor of an unexpected offer from another firm?

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BendAndSnap
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Re: accepting then rejecting an offer

Postby BendAndSnap » Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:20 pm

no no no no no no no no

12262010
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Re: accepting then rejecting an offer

Postby 12262010 » Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:23 pm

Image

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bwv812
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Re: accepting then rejecting an offer

Postby bwv812 » Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:26 pm

.
Last edited by bwv812 on Fri Nov 26, 2010 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: accepting then rejecting an offer

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:54 am

I don't think this ends up being a character and fitness issue at all. I do think it probably negatively affects other students at your school, and, depending on the market size, kills your personal reputation in the city.

I'm dealing with a similar dilema now. Had my summer all mapped out in my head and knew I would accept two specific firms if I got offers from them. Got an offer from one for one half of the summer very early and accepted. Then got an offer from firm two, but firm two switched their summer program to the same half of the summer as firm one. Now I have to decide, do I stick with firm one, or rescind and move to firm two?

Luckily both firms are in different states, but it is still a really tough decision to have to make because I've been in an ldr for the past 2 years, and my GF lives in the same city as firm two.

I spoke to my career services director, and she said that it's a tough thing to do, but it's better to do it quickly and as gracefully as possible. Didn't indicate there would be any negative consequences for me. Really what can they do to me though? Can't restrict me from participating in OCI, I have offers, and most came from things other than OCI...it has served its very limited purpose. They can't screw with my grades or anything either, so career services and school admins have essentially no power to stop me from doing this if I make that decision.

I am very conscious of the negative effect my decision may have on future students at my school though....

It's a tough situation.

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MrKappus
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Re: accepting then rejecting an offer

Postby MrKappus » Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:04 am

Anonymous User wrote:I am very conscious of the negative effect my decision may have on future students at my school though....


That's kind of like being "very conscious" of the fact that the person you just ran down with your car got run over. Hooray for your awareness.

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War Cardinal
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Re: accepting then rejecting an offer

Postby War Cardinal » Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:21 am

MrKappus wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am very conscious of the negative effect my decision may have on future students at my school though....


That's kind of like being "very conscious" of the fact that the person you just ran down with your car got run over. Hooray for your awareness.


LOL!

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Re: accepting then rejecting an offer

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:23 am

MrKappus wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am very conscious of the negative effect my decision may have on future students at my school though....


That's kind of like being "very conscious" of the fact that the person you just ran down with your car got run over. Hooray for your awareness.


Don't be an asshole. It's not the same thing at all. I'm not killing or injuring anyone. Yes my decision may have some negligable negative effect on other students, but it is my decision. It is not a trivial one. The firm switched the program without warning from a model they had followed for the past ten years. I didn't voluntarily put myself in this situation. Furthermore, the implications of this decision on my relationship, my future, and my reputation make it far more likely that I will suffer a greater injury than any person who is external to this process.

The legal hiring model is so ridiculous that after a few 20 minute interviews, a 23 year old kid is forced to make a decision on:

-where he will spend the next 3-10 years of his life
-whether his relationship is serious enough to burn a bridge, and move to an entirely different state where he has absolutely no connections
-the consequences of that decision on various unkown parties

and all of this before I've even gotten two weeks into my 2L year.

I mean really, until you have a similar situation, your judgment/crticism/whatever isn't worth a damn.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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NoleinNY
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Re: accepting then rejecting an offer

Postby NoleinNY » Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:25 am

This sounds like a useful exam hypo for Contracts class...

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vanwinkle
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Re: accepting then rejecting an offer

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:31 am

Anonymous User wrote:The legal hiring model is so ridiculous that after a few 20 minute interviews, a 23 year old kid is forced to make a decision on:

-where he will spend the next 3-10 years of his life
-whether his relationship is serious enough to burn a bridge, and move to an entirely different state where he has absolutely no connections
-the consequences of that decision on various unkown parties

and all of this before I've even gotten two weeks into my 2L year.

And in a few months you'll be working your first summer in a job where mistakes could cost other people years of their lives, or large sums of money. If you're not ready for serious ethical responsibility, then, um, why did you go to law school?

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Re: accepting then rejecting an offer

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:39 am

vanwinkle wrote:And in a few months you'll be working your first summer in a job where mistakes could cost other people years of their lives, or large sums of money. If you're not ready for serious ethical responsibility, then, um, why did you go to law school?


1. I'll be working my second summer.
2. I never said I was unprepared for the responsiblity. I think my acknowledgement of the effects of my eventual decision on others is at the very least an indication that I posses the maturity to think through all the consequences of such decisions.

I was simply addressing the stupidity inherent in comparing what I said earlier to physically injuring or killing someone.

I'd also like to add that firm 1 made me the offer during the callback, contingent on me accepting on the spot. I accepted because I knew firm 2, which was the only other firm I really wanted to be at, had a program that spanned the entire summer and allowed a split. There is no way I could have known that firm 2 would change or was even contemplating changing the structure of their summer program. Again, I don't think it's fair to criticize if you haven't been faced with a similar situation.

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Re: accepting then rejecting an offer

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:16 am

Anonymous User wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:And in a few months you'll be working your first summer in a job where mistakes could cost other people years of their lives, or large sums of money. If you're not ready for serious ethical responsibility, then, um, why did you go to law school?


1. I'll be working my second summer.
2. I never said I was unprepared for the responsiblity. I think my acknowledgement of the effects of my eventual decision on others is at the very least an indication that I posses the maturity to think through all the consequences of such decisions.

I was simply addressing the stupidity inherent in comparing what I said earlier to physically injuring or killing someone.

I'd also like to add that firm 1 made me the offer during the callback, contingent on me accepting on the spot. I accepted because I knew firm 2, which was the only other firm I really wanted to be at, had a program that spanned the entire summer and allowed a split. There is no way I could have known that firm 2 would change or was even contemplating changing the structure of their summer program. Again, I don't think it's fair to criticize if you haven't been faced with a similar situation.


Didn't happen. Maybe they offered you at the callback, but they didn't make the offer contingent upon accepting on the spot. They have to give you 28 days and everyone knows it.

If you think a 23 year-old isn't capable of making such decisions, you should have waited to go to law school.

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MrKappus
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Re: accepting then rejecting an offer

Postby MrKappus » Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:09 am

OP: ironically, ITT, you come across as remarkably immature. Your structural critiques of the legal hiring process are noted, but fail to mitigate the fact that you're about to breach a K w/ firm 1 based on something outside firm 1's control (i.e., firm 2's summer schedule). Also, the idea that one can't criticize another w/o having faced the same circumstances is idiotic; there are a variety of ethical missteps I'm justified in passing judgment on, despite not having faced them. Finally, the "mature" awareness of the situation's ethical scope, which you believe yourself to possess, means about as much as your half-researched notion of how firm 2 would split its summer.

savagecheater
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Re: accepting then rejecting an offer

Postby savagecheater » Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:14 am

"A contract was formed on dispatch of the acceptance. Otherwise, the offeree could speculate at the offeror's expense by seeing how the market went."

Couldn't resist.

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Re: accepting then rejecting an offer

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:53 am

OP here. To clarify, my issue concerns offers for permanent employment after graduation, not SA offers.

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Re: accepting then rejecting an offer

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:54 am

Oh lord people. (I'm not op btw)

1. Maybe NALP does "require" a 28 day waiting period, but I'm telling you that the hiring partner said "we are prepared to make you an offer, but you must accept it today." Unless I dreamed that part of the conversation :roll:

2. I never said I was unprepared to make the decision, I said it was a tough one to make. I'm not sure how pointing out all the factors that make a decision difficult indicates that one is unready to make that decision, or how it bears on my readiness for law school.

3. I have to think that as far as breached contracts go, this is a rather innocuous one.

4. I do understand the argument that it is "idiotic" to require someone be in a similar situation in order to criticize my potential decision. I stand by it though. All any of you has experience with is some idealistic notion of "how the process should work."

I knew where I wanted to be next summer, and made that decision long before I had any offers. The decision was not based on trivialities like vault rankings, pay, or who put me up in the nicest hotel; I made it after sitting and contemplating what I wanted for my future. I expected to clerk at both firms, then make the decision around this time next year on whether or not my relationship was in a place where it was realistic to divorce my connections in this region and move to firm 2.

That became complicated when firm 2, whose website, nalp sheet, and legal recruiter all told me they had a full summer program and allowed a split, called a few days ago and said "we'd like to extend you an offer, also I know I told you our program was the full summer and you can split, but our committee met and decided that we would only do a 6 week program for one half of the summer this year." No amount of research would have allowed me to sit in on those meetings and contemplate that shift.

Now, forced into this situation, I must make that decision earlier than I had hoped to. You people think it is an unspeakable and indefensible crime to rescind an acceptance...I'm telling you just like my career services director told me: "there are situations like this, it's not necessarily pleasant for any of the parties involved, but you have to do what you have to do."

I'm not going to try to change anyone's mind here. Hell I'll even come back after I make my decision and let you either throw stones at me or tell me I was stupid for even considering doing that bad thing. I just wanted to point out that doing something like this isn't some black and white situation where popping open your K's book can help you. Sometimes, you gotta do what ya gotta do...you just better have a damn good reason for doing it.

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Re: accepting then rejecting an offer

Postby NYAssociate » Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:58 am

.
Last edited by NYAssociate on Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kurla88
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Re: accepting then rejecting an offer

Postby kurla88 » Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:44 am

Any possibility of a split summer?

Renzo
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Re: accepting then rejecting an offer

Postby Renzo » Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:31 am

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. To clarify, my issue concerns offers for permanent employment after graduation, not SA offers.

Is this a summer job that offered to let you come back permanently?

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Re: accepting then rejecting an offer

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:02 pm

**
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: accepting then rejecting an offer

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:03 pm

Renzo wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here. To clarify, my issue concerns offers for permanent employment after graduation, not SA offers.

Is this a summer job that offered to let you come back permanently?


yes

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Re: accepting then rejecting an offer

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:11 pm

You guys are being way too hard on OP; forgetting the fact that any "contract" is for at-will employment which can be terminated by either party "at will." Also forgetting that over the past few years law firms have treated their incoming associates like dirt and routinely reneged or amended their offers of employment. And there are no C&F issues (at least on the bar application I am currently working on . . . ).

OP - look out for #1. Do so with as much tact as possible; limiting any foreseeable impact on your classmates.

Renzo
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Re: accepting then rejecting an offer

Postby Renzo » Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:You guys are being way too hard on OP; forgetting the fact that any "contract" is for at-will employment which can be terminated by either party "at will." Also forgetting that over the past few years law firms have treated their incoming associates like dirt and routinely reneged or amended their offers of employment. And there are no C&F issues (at least on the bar application I am currently working on . . . ).

OP - look out for #1. Do so with as much tact as possible; limiting any foreseeable impact on your classmates.

This. And it seems early for a firm to have made you accept an offer to return after the summer; isn't it?

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Re: accepting then rejecting an offer

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:38 am

Anonymous User wrote:Oh lord people. (I'm not op btw)

1. Maybe NALP does "require" a 28 day waiting period, but I'm telling you that the hiring partner said "we are prepared to make you an offer, but you must accept it today." Unless I dreamed that part of the conversation :roll:

2. I never said I was unprepared to make the decision, I said it was a tough one to make. I'm not sure how pointing out all the factors that make a decision difficult indicates that one is unready to make that decision, or how it bears on my readiness for law school.

3. I have to think that as far as breached contracts go, this is a rather innocuous one.

4. I do understand the argument that it is "idiotic" to require someone be in a similar situation in order to criticize my potential decision. I stand by it though. All any of you has experience with is some idealistic notion of "how the process should work."

I knew where I wanted to be next summer, and made that decision long before I had any offers. The decision was not based on trivialities like vault rankings, pay, or who put me up in the nicest hotel; I made it after sitting and contemplating what I wanted for my future. I expected to clerk at both firms, then make the decision around this time next year on whether or not my relationship was in a place where it was realistic to divorce my connections in this region and move to firm 2.

That became complicated when firm 2, whose website, nalp sheet, and legal recruiter all told me they had a full summer program and allowed a split, called a few days ago and said "we'd like to extend you an offer, also I know I told you our program was the full summer and you can split, but our committee met and decided that we would only do a 6 week program for one half of the summer this year." No amount of research would have allowed me to sit in on those meetings and contemplate that shift.

Now, forced into this situation, I must make that decision earlier than I had hoped to. You people think it is an unspeakable and indefensible crime to rescind an acceptance...I'm telling you just like my career services director told me: "there are situations like this, it's not necessarily pleasant for any of the parties involved, but you have to do what you have to do."

I'm not going to try to change anyone's mind here. Hell I'll even come back after I make my decision and let you either throw stones at me or tell me I was stupid for even considering doing that bad thing. I just wanted to point out that doing something like this isn't some black and white situation where popping open your K's book can help you. Sometimes, you gotta do what ya gotta do...you just better have a damn good reason for doing it.




This is me; back as I promised. Ended up deciding to go with firm 2. I attempted to work with both firms on a resolution, and actually got pretty far. In the end though, I realized that the patch work summer I'd been able to get both firms to agree to would not be in either of our best interests; they really couldn't fully evaluate my skills and ability to fit in, and I wouldn't be able to evaluate them.

Firm 1 was great about it. Told me they totally understood, and they know how tough my situation is. They also told me that if I decided next year or in the future to come back to the region, they wanted the first shot. I really appreciated how understanding they were, and am happy I was honest with them as soon as this situation arose.

I'll say again, rescinding an acceptance is something you can do if you have a good reason for it, and you are honest with all parties involved. Firm 1 knew who and where Firm 2 was because I told them as soon as I started talking to them about the situation. I didn't hide anything, was totally honest, and both sides appreciated that.

I'd also like to add that many of the admins and professors I spoke to at my school actually encouraged me to go to Firm 2. To them, there was a net positive effect of having students take advantage of out of state opportunities. While they felt like my reason for rescinding was a good one, they also felt like the bond between our school and local firms was so strong that even if I left for a not so good reason, there would be no real effect on the school's relationship with the firm.

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Kohinoor
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Re: accepting then rejecting an offer

Postby Kohinoor » Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:You guys are being way too hard on OP; forgetting the fact that any "contract" is for at-will employment which can be terminated by either party "at will." Also forgetting that over the past few years law firms have treated their incoming associates like dirt and routinely reneged or amended their offers of employment. And there are no C&F issues (at least on the bar application I am currently working on . . . ).

OP - look out for #1. Do so with as much tact as possible; limiting any foreseeable impact on your classmates.

TLS is very firm friendly. It's weird.




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