Minneapolis Offers? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I will PM (this is OP again) but I do not agree with your analysis about class rank. If you're in 20-35 % of class at UMN you should be fine. Remember, other regional schools in the area get their top students in to the big firms as well, and the caliber of that student is about the same as one from the top 33 % at UMN. Though "Summa Cum Laude" looks good on the online profile I suppose.

Anyway, I DO think they'd look more seriously at a lower ranked candidate from Michigan, and to a lesser degree Virginia. It is just simple business. Everyone knows Michigan is a great school. It looks good.

I disagree, unless you're in the top 25% at Michigan you're better off at UMN or William Mitchell (assuming you're in the top 15% at those schools). Some big Minneapolis firms have been taking HYS candidates, even some government positions are going to HYS. They will not be impressed with Michigan at 50% in MSP. It's an employers market, as we know. Do not pay sticker at Michigan if you want to stay in Minneapolis

Also, depending on the firm you may do equally well with either at UMN or William Mitchell degree. You would be better off with being top 10% (good WE, LR, etc) from WM than being top 45% from UMN.

I just went through OCI in Minneapolis (well, still going through) and this info is based on my experiences and conversations with students from UMN, WM, Hamline and UST

[Anonymous User]

I will PM (this is OP again) but I do not agree with your analysis about class rank. If you're in 20-35 % of class at UMN you should be fine. Remember, other regional schools in the area get their top students in to the big firms as well, and the caliber of that student is about the same as one from the top 33 % at UMN. Though "Summa Cum Laude" looks good on the online profile I suppose.

Anyway, I DO think they'd look more seriously at a lower ranked candidate from Michigan, and to a lesser degree Virginia. It is just simple business. Everyone knows Michigan is a great school. It looks good.

I disagree, unless you're in the top 25% at Michigan you're better off at UMN or William Mitchell (assuming you're in the top 15% at those schools). Some big Minneapolis firms have been taking HYS candidates, even some government positions are going to HYS. They will not be impressed with Michigan at 50% in MSP. It's an employers market, as we know. Do not pay sticker at Michigan if you want to stay in Minneapolis

Also, depending on the firm you may do equally well with either at UMN or William Mitchell degree. You would be better off with being top 10% (good WE, LR, etc) from WM than being top 45% from UMN.

I just went through OCI in Minneapolis (well, still going through) and this info is based on my experiences and conversations with students from UMN, WM, Hamline and UST

I am the OP, and the guy you disagree with. I think you make some pretty good points actually. I, personally go to a T25 (not Minnesota), and I have friends at my school who landed callbacks at all the major firms in Minneapolis and they were NOT in the top 15 % or even 25 % of their class. I landed multiple offers there (I have chosen on one), and I am in the top 30 students of my class (roughly top 13 % or so . . . my school's ranking system is sort of screwy).

My point about Michigan is that if you have a significant tie to Minnesota, it is likely that they will call you back more so than someone who goes to Minnesota and has a significant tie, because you in no way stand out from the rest of the pack that way. Minneapolis is a big market, but still, people going to Michigan and other places likely think that Chicago, NY, or LA are the places they want to go, and as such, the Minnesota firms that do OCI there are not only looking for high class rank, but ALSO for an actual commitment to staying in the market.

They want to make sure their investment is sound, and with this economy, and after talking to multiple recruiting partners, they all agree with this analysis-- a commitment to living in the area is important. Going to Michigan and showing that commitment stands out more so than going to Minnesota and showing it in my opinion. It seems that if you go to a Minnesota school, your competition is very strong. Those firms always have a relationship with those schools. But the law firms also want to maintain relationships with the other schools that they regularly recruit from, and this encourages them to do OCI at highly ranked schools and to bring back people who are committed to working in the area.

Also, certain firms in Minneapolis have a rather large number of Michigan alumn. And Iowa, for instance, has a number of associates at these firms that did not graduate at the tippity top of the class (though I have no doubt they were accomplished students).

Just a few thoughts of my own. I don't entirely disagree with you though.

[Anonymous User]

I will PM (this is OP again) but I do not agree with your analysis about class rank. If you're in 20-35 % of class at UMN you should be fine. Remember, other regional schools in the area get their top students in to the big firms as well, and the caliber of that student is about the same as one from the top 33 % at UMN. Though "Summa Cum Laude" looks good on the online profile I suppose.

Anyway, I DO think they'd look more seriously at a lower ranked candidate from Michigan, and to a lesser degree Virginia. It is just simple business. Everyone knows Michigan is a great school. It looks good.

I disagree, unless you're in the top 25% at Michigan you're better off at UMN or William Mitchell (assuming you're in the top 15% at those schools). Some big Minneapolis firms have been taking HYS candidates, even some government positions are going to HYS. They will not be impressed with Michigan at 50% in MSP. It's an employers market, as we know. Do not pay sticker at Michigan if you want to stay in Minneapolis

Also, depending on the firm you may do equally well with either at UMN or William Mitchell degree. You would be better off with being top 10% (good WE, LR, etc) from WM than being top 45% from UMN.

I just went through OCI in Minneapolis (well, still going through) and this info is based on my experiences and conversations with students from UMN, WM, Hamline and UST

I feel like OCI is feast or famine at local MN schools. I go to one of the schools you mentioned, and know people who have completely struck out at OCI who are top 10% + LR. The problem is that the largest firms have very small summer associate programs. Briggs, for instance, is the 4th largest firm, yet they only hire ~5 SA. Sure, top 15% + LR at UMN or Mitchell will get you interviews, but getting a CB or offer is another story (see all the comments about out of state candidates doing well). I am fairly certain that less than 10 students at Mitchell will receive an offer at a big Minneapolis firm, and the number at UMN won't be much higher.

I guess the saving grace for MN is that the economy is OK. There are plenty of smaller firms that are hiring, and it is not unusual for some of the larger companies to offer non-trad legal jobs to Mitchell and UMN students.

[Unshake]

I will PM (this is OP again) but I do not agree with your analysis about class rank. If you're in 20-35 % of class at UMN you should be fine. Remember, other regional schools in the area get their top students in to the big firms as well, and the caliber of that student is about the same as one from the top 33 % at UMN. Though "Summa Cum Laude" looks good on the online profile I suppose.

Anyway, I DO think they'd look more seriously at a lower ranked candidate from Michigan, and to a lesser degree Virginia. It is just simple business. Everyone knows Michigan is a great school. It looks good.

I disagree, unless you're in the top 25% at Michigan you're better off at UMN or William Mitchell (assuming you're in the top 15% at those schools). Some big Minneapolis firms have been taking HYS candidates, even some government positions are going to HYS. They will not be impressed with Michigan at 50% in MSP. It's an employers market, as we know. Do not pay sticker at Michigan if you want to stay in Minneapolis

Also, depending on the firm you may do equally well with either at UMN or William Mitchell degree. You would be better off with being top 10% (good WE, LR, etc) from WM than being top 45% from UMN.

I just went through OCI in Minneapolis (well, still going through) and this info is based on my experiences and conversations with students from UMN, WM, Hamline and UST

I feel like OCI is feast or famine at local MN schools. I go to one of the schools you mentioned, and know people who have completely struck out at OCI who are top 10% + LR. The problem is that the largest firms have very small summer associate programs. Briggs, for instance, is the 4th largest firm, yet they only hire ~5 SA. Sure, top 15% + LR at UMN or Mitchell will get you interviews, but getting a CB or offer is another story (see all the comments about out of state candidates doing well). I am fairly certain that less than 10 students at Mitchell will receive an offer at a big Minneapolis firm, and the number at UMN won't be much higher.

I guess the saving grace for MN is that the economy is OK. There are plenty of smaller firms that are hiring, and it is not unusual for some of the larger companies to offer non-trad legal jobs to Mitchell and UMN students.

Could you expand a little more on the large companies and non-traditional legal jobs? I would like to work at one of the large Minneapolis firms as a means to having reasonable exit options or at least to pay off loans. I know Cargill has ONE position, but I'm not familiar with any other that do (I'm assuming Target, BBY, Wells maybe?).

[Anonymous User]

has anyone heard from Briggs yet?

[Anonymous User]

I will PM (this is OP again) but I do not agree with your analysis about class rank. If you're in 20-35 % of class at UMN you should be fine. Remember, other regional schools in the area get their top students in to the big firms as well, and the caliber of that student is about the same as one from the top 33 % at UMN. Though "Summa Cum Laude" looks good on the online profile I suppose.

Anyway, I DO think they'd look more seriously at a lower ranked candidate from Michigan, and to a lesser degree Virginia. It is just simple business. Everyone knows Michigan is a great school. It looks good.

This analysis probably reflects what you would expect of UMN, but it doesn't, unfortunately, reflect what actually happens. UMN students this year were highly unlikely to get an initial interview with a firm ANYWHERE without being in the top quartile (all the firms were listed as "Top 25% Preferred"). Yes, there are some lottery spots, but it goes without saying that you don't choose a school based on the hope of getting a lottery spot - and then a callback - and then an offer - not likely. I know some people who are well above the top quartile cutoff with few - if any - real prospects (i.e. a callback at a firm that is hiring more than four SAs). Speaking as someone at the very top of the class (and with solid 1l summer work experience), I do not have NEARLY the options I expected to have. I have some theories about why this is, but the bottom line is that UMN is not a sure bet for the Minneapolis market.

As someone who goes to Michigan/Virginia and is looking at the Minneapolis market, I think the class rank standard is set lower than for slightly lower-ranked schools, at least when it comes to getting CBs. Especially when you have ties to Minneapolis, but sometimes even if not.

[Anonymous User]

denied at Briggs last week via snail mail, just had a screening interview.

Has anyone heard from Bowman & Brooke?

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone heard from Faegre? I did a call-back over a week ago...

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone heard from Faegre? I did a call-back over a week ago...

CB this week, haven't heard either.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone heard from Faegre? I did a call-back over a week ago...

CB this week, haven't heard either.

When was yours, if you don't mind disclosing? i.e. early/mid/late this week? I was told it will probably be a week or two at most. The clock's ticking. And my interest is waning. Too bad it wasn't one of my best interviews. I flew into town late the night before and could not sleep a wink, even at the luxuriously appointed business suite they so graciously got for me. So I was kind of a wreck in the morning, hardly registering things and forgetting points from my resume. So they probably think I am not a good fit or that I am a dumb etc. That's tragic because I really liked the people and loved the firm's culture/vibe. Oh well.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone heard from Faegre? I did a call-back over a week ago...

CB this week, haven't heard either.

When was yours, if you don't mind disclosing? i.e. early/mid/late this week? I was told it will probably be a week or two at most. The clock's ticking. And my interest is waning. Too bad it wasn't one of my best interviews. I flew into town late the night before and could not sleep a wink, even at the luxuriously appointed business suite they so graciously got for me. So I was kind of a wreck in the morning, hardly registering things and forgetting points from my resume. So they probably think I am not a good fit or that I am a dumb etc. That's tragic because I really liked the people and loved the firm's culture/vibe. Oh well.

Offer from Faegre yesterday (not me).

[Anonymous User]

Have a CB at Faegre over a week from now. So they are still interviewing and doing rolling offers.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone heard from Faegre? I did a call-back over a week ago...

CB this week, haven't heard either.

When was yours, if you don't mind disclosing? i.e. early/mid/late this week? I was told it will probably be a week or two at most. The clock's ticking. And my interest is waning. Too bad it wasn't one of my best interviews. I flew into town late the night before and could not sleep a wink, even at the luxuriously appointed business suite they so graciously got for me. So I was kind of a wreck in the morning, hardly registering things and forgetting points from my resume. So they probably think I am not a good fit or that I am a dumb etc. That's tragic because I really liked the people and loved the firm's culture/vibe. Oh well.

Early.

[Anonymous User]

Offer from Faegre yesterday (not me).

When was the CB, do you know?

Have a CB at Faegre over a week from now. So they are still interviewing and doing rolling offers.

Yes, recruiting told me they're doing rolling offers and that the last two weeks and the next week is going to be their busiest. They will assign a "host" associate (usually a first-year) who will take you from one interviewer to the next and will also take you to lunch (along with another first/second year "guest"). This associate will knock on the door when the time's up so you don't have to worry about anything. I think they're looking for genuine fit so just be yourself and show maturity and enthusiasm for the work they do etc. you know the drill. Good luck!

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone heard from Faegre? I did a call-back over a week ago...

CB this week, haven't heard either.

When was yours, if you don't mind disclosing? i.e. early/mid/late this week? I was told it will probably be a week or two at most. The clock's ticking. And my interest is waning. Too bad it wasn't one of my best interviews. I flew into town late the night before and could not sleep a wink, even at the luxuriously appointed business suite they so graciously got for me. So I was kind of a wreck in the morning, hardly registering things and forgetting points from my resume. So they probably think I am not a good fit or that I am a dumb etc. That's tragic because I really liked the people and loved the firm's culture/vibe. Oh well.

Got an offer from Faegre in the middle of this week. Best news of my life. I love the firm. I interviewed about 2 weeks and a day after I received my offer for all you still hoping to hear back. They meet every Tuesday. I'm planning on accepting once I receive the official mail document, but nothing in the mailbox so far.

[Anonymous User]

what's the word on RKMC other than the obvious? trial attorneys, plaintiffs work, IP, etc.

[Anonymous User]

I received an offer from RKMC. To be honest, I did not feel like I met more than 2 decent human beings the entire day. Take themselves far too seriously. Of course, they are also very well respected as a good plaintiff's firm. It is more comparable to a N.Y.C. or Chicago firm as far as hours are concerned. Minneapolis is known for great, collegial working environments with a good work-life balance. If you're looking for that type of firm (which I am), RKMC is not the place. I also had one of the associates tell me that an amazingly small percentage of associates make partner that most become in-house some place before that point. The same associate told me many 1st years lateral to another firm rather quickly. There is also apparently a very high rate of associate layoffs because the work wasn't up to par. This last comment is what I have heard through the grapevine and something that has no been substantiated by a large number of people in the firm FYI.

All in all, they do great work, but I personally would not want to work for them. Just my 10 cents. Then again, I have met a handful of attorneys who really enjoy it. I think it depends on how much you love the work you do. If you want to work 60 to 75 hours a week your first year and be associated with one of the most well-known and reputable litiation firms in the nation, they're your firm.

[Anonymous User]

I'm an old greybeard at UMN and I will tell you that the past few years have been absolutely miserable. LOTS of people in the top quartile did and will continue to come up empty-handed with the big local firms. One of the school's big selling points is that they place well with local firms, which, pre-2008, was true to a certain extent. You still needed top 25% to be considered, now you need top 25% just to get an initial interview, and the majority of top-quartile UMN students who interviewed did not get these positions. I can't even begin to state what an absolute bloody slaughter it has been and shows no signs of abetting. Yes, some people did well and got positions with local firms, but many more did not. Things have changed dramatically over the past few years, and the perception hasn't caught up with reality, and especially the school's marketing pitch and career services office haven't been quick to share the news (surprise).

Long story short, employment prospects at UMN are dismal. Congrats to the few who got offers.

[Anonymous User]

I received an offer from RKMC. To be honest, I did not feel like I met more than 2 decent human beings the entire day. Take themselves far too seriously. Of course, they are also very well respected as a good plaintiff's firm. It is more comparable to a N.Y.C. or Chicago firm as far as hours are concerned. Minneapolis is known for great, collegial working environments with a good work-life balance. If you're looking for that type of firm (which I am), RKMC is not the place. I also had one of the associates tell me that an amazingly small percentage of associates make partner that most become in-house some place before that point. The same associate told me many 1st years lateral to another firm rather quickly. There is also apparently a very high rate of associate layoffs because the work wasn't up to par. This last comment is what I have heard through the grapevine and something that has no been substantiated by a large number of people in the firm FYI.

All in all, they do great work, but I personally would not want to work for them. Just my 10 cents. Then again, I have met a handful of attorneys who really enjoy it. I think it depends on how much you love the work you do. If you want to work 60 to 75 hours a week your first year and be associated with one of the most well-known and reputable litiation firms in the nation, they're your firm.

dorsey it is.

[Anonymous User]

No way. It's all about Faegre baby!

[Anonymous User]

No way. It's all about Faegre baby!

I enjoyed my callback with them. That said, people shouldn't choose Faegre so as to maximize my chance of getting an offer.

[Anonymous User]

Sorry. I plan on accepting first thing Monday morning. I got the official offer in the mail today.

[Anonymous User]

No way. It's all about Faegre baby!

I enjoyed my callback with them. That said, people shouldn't choose Faegre so as to maximize my chance of getting an offer.

I'm calling to decline my Faegre offer on Monday. It's all yours (I hope).

[Anonymous User]

OP Here-- I'm also the guy who said I'm accepting offer from Faegre (I am anonymous because I am likely being overly cautious out of fear of disclosure) Are you going with someone else in MPLS? If so, who if you don't mind my asking. What are your reasons?

I think it would be helpful for those in this forum with offer in minneapolis trying to make a decision, or those who have yet to receive an offer, but hope to. Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

OP Here-- I'm also the guy who said I'm accepting offer from Faegre (I am anonymous because I am likely being overly cautious out of fear of disclosure) Are you going with someone else in MPLS? If so, who if you don't mind my asking. What are your reasons?

I think it would be helpful for those in this forum with offer in minneapolis trying to make a decision, or those who have yet to receive an offer, but hope to. Thanks!

I also would not want to be disclosed, but I accepted an offer from a smaller firm (around 200 attorneys). I had offers from essentially every top Mpls firm and it was an excruciating decision-making process. Ultimately I decided Dorsey & Faegre were a bit too big and institutional for me, and I found the vibe to be a bit more collegial and low-key (and the likely workload to be a tad lighter) at the smaller market-paying firms. And as I talked to more and more people in the market, I heard more and more stories of people lateraling AWAY from Dorsey & Faegre, with few if any ever moving in the opposite direction. I'm aware of the benefits of Dorsey & Faegre (bigger pay as the years go by, more sophisticated work, more big name clients, etc), but these simply didn't matter as much to me as other factors. It's a personal preference thing.