Baker Botts v Fulbright v Jones Day v V&E for Dallas

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Baker Botts v Jones Day v Vinson Elkins

Baker Botts
19
31%
Jones Day
15
25%
Vinson & Elkins
27
44%
 
Total votes: 61

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Re: Baker Botts v Jones Day v Vinson Elkins for Dallas

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:45 pm

In the interest of full disclosure, I did CBs with all of these firms (in Dallas), and have offers on the table from JD and V & E.

I liked the people at BB, but they seemed much more serious than some of the other people I met, and I felt like the associates were afraid to be candid about the firm during lunch. I have talked to people who summered there and said it was formal, and the attorneys do not interact well. So, I have an overall negative impression, but this could be influenced by my rejection.

Loved JD, loved the people, and I was very interested in some of the work they are doing. However, a lot of this might be due to great recruiting, which seems like a bad reason to pick one over the other.

Love V & E too, and I don't think that you can beat the name for exit options if you are sure you want to stay in TX--I think exit options in Texas is the big advantage V&E has over JD (for me at least). If you think you might want to go elsewhere, JD is probably a better choice for both lateral moves within the firm, and lateral moves elsewhere.

Just my two cents from someone trying to decide between two of these and a couple of others in Dallas.

Anyone have thoughts about JD vs. V & E for litigation??

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Re: Baker Botts v Jones Day v Vinson Elkins for Dallas

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:51 pm

To the poster above, is there any specific group w/in litigation that you are interested in? Both JD and VE have Chambers Band 1 litigation practices in Texas. The only compelling difference seems to be that JD has an edge w/r/t IP. Otherwise, they both seem very similar.

While Fulbright is not in this discussion, many ppl would say that they are the leader outside of the boutiques.

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Re: Baker Botts v Jones Day v Vinson Elkins for Dallas

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:03 pm

Would anyone be willing to further elaborate on associate life at Jones Day. Baker Botts associates are rumored to be on edge. Does the same hold true at JD?

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Re: Baker Botts v Jones Day v Vinson Elkins for Dallas

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:11 pm

Of the 3 firms, JD does have the largest office in Dallas.

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Re: Baker Botts v Jones Day v Vinson Elkins for Dallas

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: I heard from some people who left JD that this was definitely the case, and that they got all their coolest people involved in recruiting/hiring and then it was not at all like that once you were an associate.

I think JD corporate has somewhat of a sweatshop reputation compared to some of the other TX firms.


Would you be willing to elaborate more on this?


Several associates and a couple partners I talked to said their JD corporate friends/former colleagues worked way longer hours, but that this wasn't true of the lit people. I'm not sure why exactly, but, if you think about it, it is the only non-Texas satellite office that is still a huge office, so maybe they can get away with it more than at some of the other smaller offices.

Also I met someone who left JD corporate to go to one of the BigTex firms who specifically said that he worked more hours and got paid less because of JD's "black box" compensation model. I originally thought the way JD did bonuses was cool because it was based more on merit instead of straight billables, but he explained that the partner he worked directly with had practically no input on his bonus and the partner had even thought that the associate had gotten a big bonus when it wasn't true.

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Re: Baker Botts v Jones Day v Vinson Elkins for Dallas

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:16 pm

I am the above interested-in-litigation poster. I am thinking general complex commercial right now, but I am just not sure, and I also have an offer from Fulbright. I am just concerned that they may not be doing well financially right now (all I am basing this on is that they deferred the summers to a January start), which concerns me. I did not get this vibe from either JD or V&E, but I loved the people at Fulbright. They were so down-to-earth and honest with me during my interviews there. And, I really felt like they were not as serious or as stressed as the people at some of the firms that I talked to. They are definitely still in the mix for me, especially because of all the great litigation training that they do.

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Re: Baker Botts v Jones Day v Vinson Elkins for Dallas

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:22 am

Anonymous User wrote:I am the above interested-in-litigation poster. I am thinking general complex commercial right now, but I am just not sure, and I also have an offer from Fulbright. I am just concerned that they may not be doing well financially right now (all I am basing this on is that they deferred the summers to a January start), which concerns me. I did not get this vibe from either JD or V&E, but I loved the people at Fulbright. They were so down-to-earth and honest with me during my interviews there. And, I really felt like they were not as serious or as stressed as the people at some of the firms that I talked to. They are definitely still in the mix for me, especially because of all the great litigation training that they do.


Fulbright sounds as though it would be a great fit for you and in many circles has long had the reputation as the premier, non-boutique, litigation firm in Texas.

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Re: Baker Botts v Jones Day v Vinson Elkins for Dallas

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:23 pm

Even the tone of BBs offer letter is much more serious than JD and V&E.

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Re: Baker Botts v Jones Day v Vinson Elkins for Dallas

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:36 pm

Baker Botts indicated that they would be more than willing to work with me in coordinating with the firm that I will be working with during the second half. Alternatively, Jones Day seemed somewhat reluctant and wanted me to spend the whole summer with them (despite allowing splits).

Has anyone had the same experience at either these or other firms?

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Re: Baker Botts v Jones Day v Vinson Elkins for Dallas

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:46 pm

I remember seeing somewhat that BB gave offers to 32/35 of its Summer Associates in Texas. I was informed that two of the no-offers were from the Dallas office and that at the end of the summer the firm was strongly pressing students interested in both corporate and litigation to begin applying to clerkship suggesting a perceived back-log in the very near future.

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Re: Baker Botts v Jones Day v Vinson Elkins for Dallas

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:34 pm

Like other law schools, my school has a database detailing the experiences and opinions of students clerking at various firms around the country.

In going throug the comments, most students spoke very favorably w/r/t Baker Botts and Vinson & Elkins. Alternatively, some students express sincere concern w/r/t Jones Day.

Student Comment:

The program is very informative. One is able to get a breath of projects to select what is in their best interests. In Texas everyone splits summers. I worked the entire summer. If you are a 1L and want work over the summer mail the Texas firms, its a great way to pick up good money. There are high expectations at Jones Day so it is not the vacation that everyone says it is. I found a bit of inconsistency in the expectations. Initially, I was told that time was not a factor only good work product. Yet 10 weeks into the summer I have been asked to increase my efficincy. Had that been a paramter initially I would have worked to a different standard. Other than that it has been a very good experience. One other thing, there are too many social events. Pick and choose and keep your head in the work. Never lose site of your work product. Just universal advice, treat every attorney you work for as if they were your client. Write summaries on a daily basis to let them know what you have done. Once you get the details of a project summarize it and e-mail it back to the attorney so that they confirm you are on the right page. Remember to FOCUS on your task. You are a worker bee, thinking beyond your project is a red flag. You need to focus in on the specific task.

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Re: Baker Botts v Jones Day v Vinson Elkins for Dallas

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Like other law schools, my school has a database detailing the experiences and opinions of students clerking at various firms around the country.

In going throug the comments, most students spoke very favorably w/r/t Baker Botts and Vinson & Elkins. Alternatively, some students express sincere concern w/r/t Jones Day.

Student Comment:

The program is very informative. One is able to get a breath of projects to select what is in their best interests. In Texas everyone splits summers. I worked the entire summer. If you are a 1L and want work over the summer mail the Texas firms, its a great way to pick up good money. There are high expectations at Jones Day so it is not the vacation that everyone says it is. I found a bit of inconsistency in the expectations. Initially, I was told that time was not a factor only good work product. Yet 10 weeks into the summer I have been asked to increase my efficincy. Had that been a paramter initially I would have worked to a different standard. Other than that it has been a very good experience. One other thing, there are too many social events. Pick and choose and keep your head in the work. Never lose site of your work product. Just universal advice, treat every attorney you work for as if they were your client. Write summaries on a daily basis to let them know what you have done. Once you get the details of a project summarize it and e-mail it back to the attorney so that they confirm you are on the right page. Remember to FOCUS on your task. You are a worker bee, thinking beyond your project is a red flag. You need to focus in on the specific task.

Thinking that's probably on the transactional side, if I had to guess. Does anyone have any experience on the litigation side of things?

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Re: Baker Botts v Jones Day v Vinson Elkins for Dallas

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:23 pm

Wanted to add my two cents. Baker Botts and Fulbright both have some amazing people, but there is something bad going on in both firms. I would avoid. V&E and JD are safer bets ITE.

Rumored offer rates at these firms:

JD no-offered 2/12 total?
V&E no-offered 1/15 or so
FJ no-offered 4 or 5/10
BB no-offered 2/14 total?

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Re: Baker Botts v Jones Day v Vinson Elkins for Dallas

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Wanted to add my two cents. Baker Botts and Fulbright both have some amazing people, but there is something bad going on in both firms. I would avoid. V&E and JD are safer bets ITE.

Rumored offer rates at these firms:

JD no-offered 2/12 total?
V&E no-offered 1/15 or so
FJ no-offered 4 or 5/10
BB no-offered 2/14 total?


I think the 1 to 2 no offers is more realistic (and in the end, sustainable) than 100% offer rates. I mean...the interview process isn't perfect. It seems like it'd be a given that at least one or two of the SAs just don't have it together.

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Re: Baker Botts v Jones Day v Vinson Elkins for Dallas

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Like other law schools, my school has a database detailing the experiences and opinions of students clerking at various firms around the country.

In going throug the comments, most students spoke very favorably w/r/t Baker Botts and Vinson & Elkins. Alternatively, some students express sincere concern w/r/t Jones Day.

Student Comment:

The program is very informative. One is able to get a breath of projects to select what is in their best interests. In Texas everyone splits summers. I worked the entire summer. If you are a 1L and want work over the summer mail the Texas firms, its a great way to pick up good money. There are high expectations at Jones Day so it is not the vacation that everyone says it is. I found a bit of inconsistency in the expectations. Initially, I was told that time was not a factor only good work product. Yet 10 weeks into the summer I have been asked to increase my efficincy. Had that been a paramter initially I would have worked to a different standard. Other than that it has been a very good experience. One other thing, there are too many social events. Pick and choose and keep your head in the work. Never lose site of your work product. Just universal advice, treat every attorney you work for as if they were your client. Write summaries on a daily basis to let them know what you have done. Once you get the details of a project summarize it and e-mail it back to the attorney so that they confirm you are on the right page. Remember to FOCUS on your task. You are a worker bee, thinking beyond your project is a red flag. You need to focus in on the specific task.

Thinking that's probably on the transactional side, if I had to guess. Does anyone have any experience on the litigation side of things?


Looking back, this guy indicated that he worked in litigation. However, he reference to transactional work is a bit confusing.

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Re: Baker Botts v Jones Day v Vinson Elkins for Dallas

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Wanted to add my two cents. Baker Botts and Fulbright both have some amazing people, but there is something bad going on in both firms. I would avoid. V&E and JD are safer bets ITE.

Rumored offer rates at these firms:

JD no-offered 2/12 total?
V&E no-offered 1/15 or so
FJ no-offered 4 or 5/10
BB no-offered 2/14 total?


This looks about right. JD may have had closer to 15 last year so the actual # may be 2/15 (not that it makes any difference). The real question that we should ask is based on observed performance, where the aforementioned no-offers reasonable?

I can only comment on one of the BB no-offers and it is my understanding that this person just didn't click w/ the biglaw lifestyle (inside information). I think that the other BB no-offer split w/ Jones Day and was leaning that way the whole time.

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Re: Baker Botts v Jones Day v Vinson Elkins for Dallas

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:52 pm

OP here: To be honest, I thought that when I started this thread, BB and VE would take the lions share of the votes. I can only speculate that users without ties to Texas are simply voting Jones Day giving the firm's national reputation and #18 ranking in Vault.

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Re: Baker Botts v Jones Day v Vinson Elkins for Dallas

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Wanted to add my two cents. Baker Botts and Fulbright both have some amazing people, but there is something bad going on in both firms. I would avoid. V&E and JD are safer bets ITE.

Rumored offer rates at these firms:

JD no-offered 2/12 total?
V&E no-offered 1/15 or so
FJ no-offered 4 or 5/10
BB no-offered 2/14 total?


Wow! Even in 2010, FJ no-offered 40-50% of its summer class.

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Re: Baker Botts v Jones Day v Vinson Elkins for Dallas

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:02 pm

http://texaslawyer.typepad.com/texas_la ... -summ.html

The 90% offer rates for BB & V&E quoted in the article above only refer to Houston. Has anyone seen this information for Dallas?

The only firms that had 100% offer rates in Dallas were Andrews Kurth and Jackon Walker.

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Re: Baker Botts v Jones Day v Vinson Elkins for Dallas

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:02 pm

http://texaslawyer.typepad.com/texas_la ... tshal.html

An article that came out a day later than the article cited above ... still no mention of BB, JD, or VE Dallas.

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Re: Baker Botts v Jones Day v Vinson Elkins for Dallas

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:16 pm

Jones Day, Nights, and Weekends

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Re: Baker Botts v Jones Day v Vinson Elkins for Dallas

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Wanted to add my two cents. Baker Botts and Fulbright both have some amazing people, but there is something bad going on in both firms. I would avoid. V&E and JD are safer bets ITE.

Rumored offer rates at these firms:

JD no-offered 2/12 total?
V&E no-offered 1/15 or so
FJ no-offered 4 or 5/10
BB no-offered 2/14 total?


This looks about right. JD may have had closer to 15 last year so the actual # may be 2/15 (not that it makes any difference). The real question that we should ask is based on observed performance, where the aforementioned no-offers reasonable?

I can only comment on one of the BB no-offers and it is my understanding that this person just didn't click w/ the biglaw lifestyle (inside information). I think that the other BB no-offer split w/ Jones Day and was leaning that way the whole time.



My sources say that one of the two JD no-offers was reasonable, the other was questionable.

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Re: Baker Botts v Fulbright v Jones Day v V&E for Dallas

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:38 pm

OP here. I am leaning towards Baker Botts. I have received a response from just about everyone that I interviewed with. Looking back, they gave an offer w/in 24 hours of my CB. This goes a long way.

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Re: Baker Botts v Fulbright v Jones Day v V&E for Dallas

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:33 pm

For the recent BB votes, any reason why? I am pretty sure that BB is my top choice.

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Re: Baker Botts v Fulbright v Jones Day v V&E for Dallas

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:10 pm

Has anyone else gotten the impression from Jones Day in TX that they would strongly prefer that you not split the summer with another firm? When I spoke with both firms today, Baker Botts was very supportive and encouraging, while Jones Day seemed somewhat hesitant and wanting me to work with them the full ten weeks.




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