switch to part-time if you strike out at OCI?

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Anonymous User
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switch to part-time if you strike out at OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:46 pm

good idea?

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thuggishruggishbone
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Re: switch to part-time if you strike out at OCI?

Postby thuggishruggishbone » Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:50 pm

Depends--you'd get another crack at OCI next year (just don't screw up your 2l grades).

Anonymous Loser
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Re: switch to part-time if you strike out at OCI?

Postby Anonymous Loser » Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:15 pm

Good Lord. Seriously? Aren't essentially the very same firms that interviewed this year going to be interviewing at your school next year?

I expect most of the posts in the Legal Employment section of this forum to be absurd, but you, sir, have taken the helpless naiveté so common to TLS to an entirely new level.

drew
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Re: switch to part-time if you strike out at OCI?

Postby drew » Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:30 pm

honestly, that seems like a really slick idea. Also, take advantage and get some decent WE that year, too.

pasteurizedmilk
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Re: switch to part-time if you strike out at OCI?

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:33 pm

Yeah that's not too bad an idea at all. You have to get a legit job though - something that you can explain with a straight face as the motivation for switching to part time.

Expensive though.

MrAnon
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Re: switch to part-time if you strike out at OCI?

Postby MrAnon » Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:37 pm

Makes no sense. Post grad employers and next year's OCI employers, if you get to meet them, are going to think you are insane. You wanted to finish in three years but now you decide to string law school out for another year? Next, school does not get any easier. Yeah you understand the game better in year #2, but so do all the same people who did better than you during the first year. Third, you just failed at your attempt to get work. Now you are going to switch to night school so that you can work during the day? Where?? You might be able to find a job that does not pay, but extending law school to take on internships is bizarre, and plenty of full time people do them anyway.

hithere
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Re: switch to part-time if you strike out at OCI?

Postby hithere » Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:50 pm

you don't really have anything to lose going that route (not like you have a job anyways)

drew
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Re: switch to part-time if you strike out at OCI?

Postby drew » Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:51 pm

MrAnon wrote:Makes no sense. Post grad employers and next year's OCI employers, if you get to meet them, are going to think you are insane. You wanted to finish in three years but now you decide to string law school out for another year? Next, school does not get any easier. Yeah you understand the game better in year #2, but so do all the same people who did better than you during the first year. Third, you just failed at your attempt to get work. Now you are going to switch to night school so that you can work during the day? Where?? You might be able to find a job that does not pay, but extending law school to take on internships is bizarre, and plenty of full time people do them anyway.

Uhh, you don't tell them you switched. If they ask, have a story, but don't bring it up.

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Re: switch to part-time if you strike out at OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:54 pm

MrAnon wrote:Makes no sense. Post grad employers and next year's OCI employers, if you get to meet them, are going to think you are insane. You wanted to finish in three years but now you decide to string law school out for another year? Next, school does not get any easier. Yeah you understand the game better in year #2, but so do all the same people who did better than you during the first year. Third, you just failed at your attempt to get work. Now you are going to switch to night school so that you can work during the day? Where?? You might be able to find a job that does not pay, but extending law school to take on internships is bizarre, and plenty of full time people do them anyway.


Your goal might not be to improve your grades. If it is, you can select courses with easier curves. On average grades tend to increase as professors get less pressure to strictly curve like with 1L classes.

Also, a year of practicing for interviews could really help if that is what sunk you this year. You can't change your personality, but if it was a major problem you can probably learn to make it less of an auto-ding.

The other advantage is if the economy stabilizes/improves. This is a large gamble and may not pay off, but you are not giving up this year's OCI to try to part-time into next year's OCI.

If you get a paying job that is tangential to the legal/business/government world, it could make sense. Actually lessens your opportunity cost as you earn income during the 4 years instead of drawing on loans. I could see justifying it on those grounds alone. If you manage to really improve your grades, will the firm really care? If anything it is related work experience.

It's kind of like retaking the LSAT. Yeah schools know you messed up the first time, but even elite schools will overlook that 165 when you also have that newer 176.

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Re: switch to part-time if you strike out at OCI?

Postby Kohinoor » Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:13 am

Anonymous User wrote:good idea?

Unless you striking out was a total fluke, this seems like a terrible idea.

drew
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Re: switch to part-time if you strike out at OCI?

Postby drew » Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:19 am

Kohinoor wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:good idea?

Unless you striking out was a total fluke, this seems like a terrible idea.

why?

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Re: switch to part-time if you strike out at OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:31 am

drew wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:good idea?

Unless you striking out was a total fluke, this seems like a terrible idea.

why?


it's a great idea IF you struck out because your grades weren't quite high enough AND you raise them substantially (to make a difference), then do it. I plan on doing this as i have everything going for me except my grades....(great interviewer, awesome WE, awesome legal experience, just didn't make it into the grades bracket they want to hire...)

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Re: switch to part-time if you strike out at OCI?

Postby MrAnon » Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:03 am

[/quote]Uhh, you don't tell them you switched. If they ask, have a story, but don't bring it up.[/quote]

Riiiight. Here's how it will go. Employer looks at first year grades. Notices you were taking 4-5 classes per semester for 15-16 credits. Employer looks at second year schedule. Notice you are taking 3-4 classes for 10-12 credits.

Employer: Wow, so you worked and went part time last year? That's a lot of credits for part time last year!

You: Um, actually I didn't work last year.

Employer: Oh, so you went part time but never had a job last year?

You: Yes, something like that. I'd rather not get too specific.

Employer: Wow you sound just like the kind of person we are looking for! You are hired. No need for callbacks; this screening interview is all the hiring comm needs to hear about.

MrAnon
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Re: switch to part-time if you strike out at OCI?

Postby MrAnon » Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:19 am

Anonymous User wrote:
MrAnon wrote:Makes no sense. Post grad employers and next year's OCI employers, if you get to meet them, are going to think you are insane. You wanted to finish in three years but now you decide to string law school out for another year? Next, school does not get any easier. Yeah you understand the game better in year #2, but so do all the same people who did better than you during the first year. Third, you just failed at your attempt to get work. Now you are going to switch to night school so that you can work during the day? Where?? You might be able to find a job that does not pay, but extending law school to take on internships is bizarre, and plenty of full time people do them anyway.


Your goal might not be to improve your grades. If it is, you can select courses with easier curves. On average grades tend to increase as professors get less pressure to strictly curve like with 1L classes.

Also, a year of practicing for interviews could really help if that is what sunk you this year. You can't change your personality, but if it was a major problem you can probably learn to make it less of an auto-ding.

The other advantage is if the economy stabilizes/improves. This is a large gamble and may not pay off, but you are not giving up this year's OCI to try to part-time into next year's OCI.

If you get a paying job that is tangential to the legal/business/government world, it could make sense. Actually lessens your opportunity cost as you earn income during the 4 years instead of drawing on loans. I could see justifying it on those grounds alone. If you manage to really improve your grades, will the firm really care? If anything it is related work experience.

It's kind of like retaking the LSAT. Yeah schools know you messed up the first time, but even elite schools will overlook that 165 when you also have that newer 176.


I agree it is like retaking the LSAT in the sense that if you do something enough times you will get it down eventually. Unfortunately, two times is often not enough for some people. So why not drop out of law school and come back in 5 or 6 years for a third shot at OCI? The reality of the situation is that people who are constantly trying to retake life can't fool a corporate hiring department into bringing them in. There is always a day of reckoning.

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bwv812
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Re: switch to part-time if you strike out at OCI?

Postby bwv812 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:37 am

.
Last edited by bwv812 on Fri Nov 26, 2010 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

12262010
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Re: switch to part-time if you strike out at OCI?

Postby 12262010 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:43 am

so, why were you a real student last year but not so much now that the economy has double dip failed?

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Kohinoor
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Re: switch to part-time if you strike out at OCI?

Postby Kohinoor » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:57 am

Anonymous User wrote:
drew wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:good idea?

Unless you striking out was a total fluke, this seems like a terrible idea.

why?


it's a great idea IF you struck out because your grades weren't quite high enough AND you raise them substantially (to make a difference), then do it. I plan on doing this as i have everything going for me except my grades....(great interviewer, awesome WE, awesome legal experience, just didn't make it into the grades bracket they want to hire...)

The problem is that you don't know beforehand that your grades will substantially improve. This is the 'It all works out if I'm in the top 10%' argument all over again. In fact, it's worse since you would need some really blockbuster grades in order to generate any movement after a year of less than stellar grades. Statistically, its not happening. If and when that plan fails, you've just spent an unnecessary year in law school.

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Kohinoor
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Re: switch to part-time if you strike out at OCI?

Postby Kohinoor » Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:06 am

bwv812 wrote:If you think you struck out for economy-related reasons, and can reasonably believe that your grades/school are good enough that you would have gotten a job in a normal economy, then I think it's a great idea. It will essentially give you the only shot you're ever going going to get at biglaw again, and the difference between 160k and 75k or less (which is what you might be able to get if you are marginally qualified or unlucky ITE) is such that I think it would be a very easy decision to make.

Mr. Anon is making some horrible points: if you can create a good story for going part time (and if you can't, think about taking a joint degree which will also push back your graduation date), no law firm is really going to give a shit. There's a good chance they won't even notice at the time they do your screening interview (especially if you go to a school where OCI is pure lottery, and especially if they don't see your transcript until you give it to them in the screener) — the only thing that really matters to them is your graduation year.

There is afaik only one school with a part time program that offers lottery OCI. In every other case, they see your grades and transcript and will know that you switched programs. In reality, neither of us knows what hiring committees truly give a shit about. However, I think we can agree that, EITE, the ball is in their court and they are looking for reasons to ding otherwise qualified candidates.

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KMaine
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Re: switch to part-time if you strike out at OCI?

Postby KMaine » Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:38 am

I really don't see much downside to this decision. As for a reason (if they ask, which I doubt most will especially during screening interviews), how about honesty. I really want to work in BIGLAW (give reasons). I didn't have that opportunity last year, so I did everything in my power (switched to PT, got some legal work experience, improved my grades) to make it happen. They may see this as resilient. If they do not, you are essentially no worse off.

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Re: switch to part-time if you strike out at OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:42 am

KMaine wrote:I really don't see much downside to this decision. As for a reason (if they ask, which I doubt most will especially during screening interviews), how about honesty. I really want to work in BIGLAW (give reasons). I didn't have that opportunity last year, so I did everything in my power (switched to PT, got some legal work experience, improved my grades) to make it happen. They may see this as resilient. If they do not, you are essentially no worse off.


have you had a screening interview? they're going to ask.

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Re: switch to part-time if you strike out at OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:52 am

I don't see a downside.

Again, referring to what has already been said, what do you have to lose? - It's not like you have a SA anyways

The whole SA -> Associate system really doesn't make much sense. I mean, why can't you be an SA after graduation? But No, the firms are still ultra traditionalist these days. Therefore, by all means game the system.

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reasonable_man
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Re: switch to part-time if you strike out at OCI?

Postby reasonable_man » Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:19 am

Not to be the voice of reason in the sea of yelling.. But lets try this first... Because, quite frankly, this matters a lot...

Op. What school are you at? You don't have to say the exact school, but give us an idea. If he is at Georgetown, i think his idea of switching to part-time is awful silly. But if he is at Brooklyn Law school, it mike make sense and once we find out where he attends, if applicable, I'll explain why...

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Kohinoor
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Re: switch to part-time if you strike out at OCI?

Postby Kohinoor » Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:25 am

Why is everyone acting as if the opportunity cost of an additional year of law school is nothing?

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Re: switch to part-time if you strike out at OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:32 am

Kohinoor wrote:Why is everyone acting as if the opportunity cost of an additional year of law school is nothing?


B/C if there is any reasonable shot at landing a biglaw job afterwards, the "opportunity cost" is dwarfed by the potential of the 100K more per year payoff. If student is truly going P/T some educational expenses could be offset by more time to work and perhaps gain some experience.

Anonymous User wrote:have you had a screening interview? they're going to ask.


You could bid on different firms. If, by chance, there is some overlap, again try honesty: Yes, but I worked really hard this year to become a better candidate, and here is why I am . . .

Sorry, this is KMaine, hit annon button by mistake.

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Re: switch to part-time if you strike out at OCI?

Postby MrAnon » Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:27 pm

There is no reasonable shot. You already failed at OCI once. But if you were dumb enough to bid too highly the first time around and that alone is what cost you your shot, or if you were bad interviewer, then by all means, waste another year in law school. The real question a person should be asking is, should I drop out now?




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