Tell me what you know about Patterson Belknap Forum

[Anonymous User]

Got a CB next week, I know the basic stuff but I'd like to hear what TLS-ers have to say

interested in soft IP lit, so I'm pretty pumped for this one

[Anonymous User]

Good firm. I enjoyed my screening. Very intellectual.

[Anonymous User]

Ok, its the OP here. Here's my breakdown on Patterson to get the ball rolling - I started the thread because if I get an offer after my CB next week, I'll be ecstatic and i'll be deciding between Debevoise (offer in hand now) and PB. With all of the Debevoise love from edcrane lately (well-deserved to be sure), I thought I'd get some opinions on whats up over at Patterson since it's not talked about as much, and hopefully find out some more info from you guys that I can use during my cb. Here's some info from my notes:

From what I understand, Patterson's a gem in nyc thats underrated by law students and vault (low prestige bc PB is tiny) but recognized as a firm with a terrific reputation among the legal community. Alumni of the firm include Guiliani, AG Mukasey, President of Georgia Saakashvili, and Time Warner CEO Parson. Over 30% of the firm's attorneys have clerked.

Best known for soft IP lit (which is what I want to do - Debevoise is tops in NYC soft IP lit as well per Chambers so these are my two favs) and PB also has cool related niche practice groups that I'm interested in: entertainment, false advertising, anti-counterfeiting, art & museum law.

Still has big clients (Johnson & Johnson, Coca-Cola, Scrabble, etc) even though its small - its power and reach bely its size. Chambers puts it this way: "often toiling in the vineyards with huge global megafirms....can meet or exceet what they bring to the table in terms of quality." Conservative growth model, low attrition, only one office, low leverage (2.11 - 32% equity partners) + lean staffing = substantive work & client contact early and more job security than most biglaw. Only 9 summer associates this past summer, and they project that they'll take 9 again for summer 2011. Extremely selective (esp if you just looked blindly at their low vault rank).

Its consistently on the AmLaw A-List (except this year since AmLaw introduced diversity as one of the factors, and Patterson is small w/ low attrition and small classes so it'll be a while before they can pull their diversity numbers up to par w/ the rest of the big guns in nyc). 100% of the attorneys do pro bono and associate satisfaction scores are through the roof each year. From what I hear from friends who work there after turning down v10s, they work less hours than their friends at the v10 firms and still get paid market nyc salary. Bonus is market if you hit 1850 hours.

Their culture is described as quiet, nerdy, intellectual, respectful - which sounds similar to the vibe I got (and liked) at Debevoise last week during my Deb cb.

Not trying to sound like a troll - Deb is spoken about enough here and PB is not since its small, so I just wanted to throw what i know out there and ask if anyone knows anything else so i'm informed before my cb

[nealric]

I don't have a ton of experience with them, but a friend of mine summered there. The culture seems to be somewhat reserved and intellectual. Unfortunately, he is the boisterous outspoken type and it got him no-offered.

[NYAssociate]

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[Anonymous User]

A firm can have big clients, but if it isn't big enough, it won't get the big cases. Big difference.

http://www.pbwt.com/firm-secures-larges ... ment-ever/

I realize that's one case, but it's not like PBWT doesn't ever get big cases.

OP, I think your assessment is largely accurate. The only thing I'd note (which I think you realize) is that PBWT is only really good at litigation, and only a few subspecialties (soft IP, patent, media/entertainment litigation, and false advertising). If you are reasonably certain you want to do one of those practice areas (or if you don't care what practice area you choose), PBWT sounds like a wonderful environment for a firm.

I personally found the practice areas too limiting given my uncertainty around what I want to practice, as well as the possibility it would be something outside those specialties. It does sound like a great place to work though, so if that's fine by you, I would go for it.

[dbt]

If I was staying in NYC I would have gone to Patterson. Patterson is the shit.

[Anonymous User]

I don't have a ton of experience with them, but a friend of mine summered there. The culture seems to be somewhat reserved and intellectual. Unfortunately, he is the boisterous outspoken type and it got him no-offered.

ahhh was he the 1 out of 15 in summer 2009 who got no-offered?

[nealric]

I don't have a ton of experience with them, but a friend of mine summered there. The culture seems to be somewhat reserved and intellectual. Unfortunately, he is the boisterous outspoken type and it got him no-offered.

ahhh was he the 1 out of 15 in summer 2009 who got no-offered?

Must have been. He is brilliant and I'm sure he worked hard- it was just a personality clash.

[BruceWayne]

If I was staying in NYC I would have gone to Patterson. Patterson is the shit.

+1000. They're the only firm that I would be willing to live in NYC for. They seem to be about the only serious firm in NYC that doesn't have the "NYC biglaw up or out--high leverage model".

[NYAssociate]

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[vamedic03]

They're the only firm that I would be willing to live in NYC for.

I strongly doubt this.

TCR - its amazing how much people change after 1L grades + OCI

[BruceWayne]

TCR - its amazing how much people change after 1L grades + OCI

Unfortunately, I think that most of the changing is due to poor grades. I'm saying that if I am blessed with good grades in January and June (or whenever it is they come out) Patterson is the only firm that I would be willing to consider in NYC. I really don't like the idea of living in NYC--at least not with a salary under 500K. Even then I'd still rather live in essentially any other major US metro area (DC, LA, Chicago, Dallas, Houston, Atlanta etc.) On top of that I don't like the idea of working at some big time NYC Vault firm knowing I will be forced out within 4 years after doing doc review 70 hours a week.

[NYAssociate]

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[BruceWayne]

Patterson is the only firm that I would be willing to consider in NYC. I really don't like the idea of living in NYC--at least not with a salary under 500K. Even then I'd still rather live in essentially any other major US metro area (DC, LA, Chicago, Dallas, Houston, Atlanta etc.) On top of that I don't like the idea of working at some big time NYC Vault firm knowing I will be forced out within 4 years after doing doc review 70 hours a week.

1) Patterson does not pay more than $500,000 to their associates.
2) There are plenty, plenty of firms in NYC where doc review is a major part of your workload as a first year, maybe as a second year. There are also plenty of firms in NYC where you'll last longer than 4 years if you put in the work.
3) The idea that working at a big firm in DC, LA, Chicago, Dallas, Houston, or Atlanta either a) has less doc review or b) is less up or out than NYC biglaw is naive at best. If anything, job security is even lower in some of those markets.

I think you misunderstood some of my post. The 500K thing was more in jest and didn't really have anything to do with firm salary--I said that as an in general comment relating to NYC insane COL ( actually does any firm pay associates 500K?). Also I was saying that the doc review thing was a negative. Frankly though the up or out thing is true. Pretty much any market outside of NYC has a sizeable number of firms where they hire you with the mentality that they hope you will make partner--instead of the idea that they will work you to death and kick you out in 4 years. Actually Texas and Atlanta have a lot of firms where making partner is a realistic goal. I won't comment on DC,LA, or Chicago though.

Patterson is different than most NYC firms. They don't have massive leverage and they don't limit their new associates to doc review. On top of that they apparently don't work the same sorts of hours as associates at places like Cravath, Paul Weiss, Skadden etc. It seems like one of the few NYC firms where one can have a long term career with.

[Anonymous User]

Also, interviewing with this firm. Anyone have any additional info?

Would the narrow litigation practice specialties be detrimental if an associate wanted to lateral to another firm to do a different sort of litigation (such as white collar)? Would this be a terrible firm to consider lateral-ling from (if changing cities, for example) or would the substantive work offered by Patterson be considered an additional plus, as opposed to working at a factory-type V20 firm?

[dbt]

Also, interviewing with this firm. Anyone have any additional info?

Would the narrow litigation practice specialties be detrimental if an associate wanted to lateral to another firm to do a different sort of litigation (such as white collar)? Would this be a terrible firm to consider lateral-ling from (if changing cities, for example) or would the substantive work offered by Patterson be considered an additional plus, as opposed to working at a factory-type V20 firm?

I think the limited practice areas is a serious concern (in that if you spend 3+ years at this place and get going in one field, it's going to be harder to lateral to another firm to do something else). I don't think lateraling in general will be difficult at all because Patterson is a very well regarded firm and there is also probably merit to the claim that you'll get more substantive work early and that this looks good to other employers.

[Anonymous User]

Anybody know anything about the exit options at Patterson to cities other than New York (e.g. Los Angeles, Chicago)?

[Anonymous User]

Bump

[IzziesGal]

I just wanted to say I'm really really really sad about them not liking me.

I have this wild fantasy where I'm an art/artifacts lawyer, traveling around the world and recovering hidden treasures - one day I'll be at some seedy apartment in Paris, and another day chilling on a Greek island getting ready to bring some mosaic to the Met (yes, I know art law is probably not as glamorous as I am making it out to be. In fact, art lawyers probably don't even do what I just described. Nonetheless, please don't kill my fantasy). Only problem is my resume doesn't support this secret passion, and they didn't believe me when I told them it was an interest.

So sad. And jealous of anyone who had a callback.

[Anonymous User]

There are plenty of other firms in NYC with good soft IP practices to provide an in into art law. Outside of that, there are also plenty of firms in NYC without soft IP practices that provide an in into art law. Relax.

And if you want to travel with art, realize two things: 1) You chose the wrong field. Art conservators travel with the art. 2) While the art is in the cargo hold, you travel business. When it isn't, you're in coach.

[Anonymous User]

I just wanted to say I'm really really really sad about them not liking me.

I have this wild fantasy where I'm an art/artifacts lawyer, traveling around the world and recovering hidden treasures - one day I'll be at some seedy apartment in Paris, and another day chilling on a Greek island getting ready to bring some mosaic to the Met (yes, I know art law is probably not as glamorous as I am making it out to be. In fact, art lawyers probably don't even do what I just described. Nonetheless, please don't kill my fantasy). Only problem is my resume doesn't support this secret passion, and they didn't believe me when I told them it was an interest.

So sad. And jealous of anyone who had a callback.

=/ Sorry to hear that. It sounds like you wanted to be Indiana Jones: the lawyer version.

On the aside, any other info about Patterson?

[Anonymous User]

Bump

[Anonymous User]

What do people know about this firm these days?

[Anonymous User]

any more specific questions, I can answer

long story short it's a great place to work and I would say v. underrated by law students