Jenner vs. Covington (both DC)

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.

Which should I choose

Jenner
10
38%
Covington
16
62%
 
Total votes: 26

User avatar
BruceWayne
Posts: 2032
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:36 pm

Re: Jenner vs. Covington (both DC)

Postby BruceWayne » Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:31 am

yellowjacket2012 wrote:not sure it much matters where you start, pretty sure you can "lateral" to williams and connolly with your creds, if they do laterals that is, but probably way too early for that stuff to matter.

I'd say cov dc > jenner dc for sure

"Williams & Connolly LLP welcomes applications for associate positions from judicial law clerks and third-year law students, as well as from attorneys who are within a few years of law school graduation.

In general, the firm likes to grow its talent from within. Lateral hiring occurs on occasion, but the vast majority of the firm's lawyers come to the firm within a few years of graduation from law school, many after serving as judicial law clerks. The result is a closely knit firm in which everyone shares the same commitment to excellence. "

http://www.wc.com/careers-associates-hiring.html

User avatar
dbt
Posts: 617
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:46 am

Re: Jenner vs. Covington (both DC)

Postby dbt » Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:39 am

BruceWayne wrote:
yellowjacket2012 wrote:not sure it much matters where you start, pretty sure you can "lateral" to williams and connolly with your creds, if they do laterals that is, but probably way too early for that stuff to matter.

I'd say cov dc > jenner dc for sure

"Williams & Connolly LLP welcomes applications for associate positions from judicial law clerks and third-year law students, as well as from attorneys who are within a few years of law school graduation.

In general, the firm likes to grow its talent from within. Lateral hiring occurs on occasion, but the vast majority of the firm's lawyers come to the firm within a few years of graduation from law school, many after serving as judicial law clerks. The result is a closely knit firm in which everyone shares the same commitment to excellence. "

http://www.wc.com/careers-associates-hiring.html


Thanks. I'm really not interested in W&C...if I did lateral, it'd be to Covington (if I started at Jenner).

I don't think my creds are as strong as people think. My guess is I'm not strong enough for SDNY/EDNY/DDC, so I should do everything I can to improve my chances, and in today's clerkship market having a year or two of real-world experience at a great firm isn't just a marginal improvement.

yellowjacket2012
Posts: 283
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:01 pm

Re: Jenner vs. Covington (both DC)

Postby yellowjacket2012 » Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:43 am

.
Last edited by yellowjacket2012 on Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
dbt
Posts: 617
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:46 am

Re: Jenner vs. Covington (both DC)

Postby dbt » Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:45 am

yellowjacket2012 wrote:yeah dbt, you hit the nail on the head w/ the law firm experience thihng.

At least for patent law, several judges on the federal circuit, and a bunch of patent-heavy circuits, don't even hire right outta school. But outta Yale, wouldn't you wana do a COA gig straight outta school? You don't HAVE to have to do a high-end d.ct. clerkship in those named districts


I'm really interested in litigation and am under the impression that a District Court clerkship is more beneficial for a litigator. The COA thing, while also valuable, is in part more an academic exercise and a gold star. So I'd really like to do both - and I'd really like to stay in DC or go back to NYC if possible, so I'd pick the firm that would make that most possible.

Edit: I'm all for school -> clerk -> job. I just don't think I'll get the clerkships I want (one in DC/NY) if I follow that path, primarily because of the recent pattern in clerkship hiring.

yellowjacket2012
Posts: 283
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:01 pm

Re: Jenner vs. Covington (both DC)

Postby yellowjacket2012 » Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:47 am

you're 100% right that d.ct. = litigation

In fact, some of the patent superstars I've talked to tell me to focus more on trying to land a N.D.Cal. or Delaware or E.D.Va. clerkship rather than a FEd. Cir. because of exactly the same reasons you mention, you're at the frontline of litigation.

However, a COA clerkship (gold star, what have you) is a hell of an experience, everyone I've talked to who's done it loved it.

On that note, I haven't really met anyone who did a COA - and THEN a D. Ct., and I've met my share of clerks. I'm sure there are some though.

I must say - there aren't that many Yale JDs running around, if you continue to do well at Yale, I'm pretty positive that next year you can get whatever NY clerkship you want. Are you concerned that moving out from NYC is going to hurt your clerkship prospects? Because I'm not sure that's credited at all.

Top 5% or whatever you had at NYU is a whooooole lot better than a ton of kids at Harvard/Yale, don't sell yourself short.
Last edited by yellowjacket2012 on Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
dbt
Posts: 617
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:46 am

Re: Jenner vs. Covington (both DC)

Postby dbt » Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:49 am

yea it seems like if I do both, I should do D.Ct. -> COA.

I'm going to check with the clerkship office tomorrow...but I'm under the impression that I would not be competitive enough for SDNY/EDNY/DDC just because most of those judges favor (or even look only at) applicants with some sort of experience. If I get a completely different story tomorrow from the clerkship office, then Covington would definitely come back into play. I just want to play my cards right.

yellowjacket2012
Posts: 283
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:01 pm

Re: Jenner vs. Covington (both DC)

Postby yellowjacket2012 » Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:53 am

yeah, not sure what you're seeing in Jenner-DC, maybe you really hit it off with them or something (which btw is totally the #1 reason to pick em if that's the case), but all else equal, Covington's the way to go man.

I would just call their bluff on the whole "offer won't remain open if you come and then leave for a clerkship" thing - I'm not sure why they do that, sounds like they've been burned one too many times with clerks ditching them after a clerkship or something? If you do get one of those badass clerkships after working at Cov for 1 year, and you're not a total incompetent for one year there, I'm not sure why they wouldn't want you back with a prestigious d.ct. clerkship. What - they're just gonna revoke an offer and let you go somewhere else AFTER they spend all that money training you? I don't buy it - I think they're just "encouraging" people to clerk straight out, because they've been burned. Call their bluff.
Last edited by yellowjacket2012 on Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273311
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Jenner vs. Covington (both DC)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:02 am

yellowjacket2012 wrote:I would just call their bluff on the whole "offer won't remain open" thing - I'm not sure why they do that, sounds like they've been burned one too many times with clerks ditching them after a clerkship or something?
while a litigation practice loves clerks, having a large portion of each class leave after 1 year or so to clerk and then come back really interrupts your training process. additionally, once you have a clerkship date set, you'll spend several months winding down and being less than productive.

yellowjacket2012
Posts: 283
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:01 pm

Re: Jenner vs. Covington (both DC)

Postby yellowjacket2012 » Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:03 am

good point.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273311
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Jenner vs. Covington (both DC)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:22 am

Seems like you liked people at Jenner. Follow your gut. I have direct experience with Jenner and know SAs at Covington. Jenner Chicago had a great year last year, mainly because of Lehman--but note that Lehman can do nothing but increase the reputation of the firm's bankruptcy practice, which wasn't too shabby to start. Jenner DC's ordinary litigation work is strong enough (they aren't going to be ranked highly for lit because they don't have hordes of associates doing doc review--that's GOOD for you), and their appellate work is stellar. Associates are not segregated into an appellate practice group. If you're good, you have just as much of a shot at working on SCOTUS or other high-profile appeals as anyone else, but you can develop trial litigation skills as well. Covington has a great reputation and the name carries beyond DC (witness this thread), but I can almost guarantee that their fancy people aren't as friendly and accessible as the fancy people at Jenner DC. Besides, Jenner will let you leave to do a clerkship and come back--they actually brag about how many SAs leave and then end up back at the firm years later.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Jenner vs. Covington (both DC)

Postby rayiner » Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is C+B known for anything corporate/regulatory whatsoever? All i've heard is they're a strong litigation shop and I have a CB there next week.


They have a very strong regulatory practice.

User avatar
dbt
Posts: 617
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:46 am

Re: Jenner vs. Covington (both DC)

Postby dbt » Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Seems like you liked people at Jenner. Follow your gut. I have direct experience with Jenner and know SAs at Covington. Jenner Chicago had a great year last year, mainly because of Lehman--but note that Lehman can do nothing but increase the reputation of the firm's bankruptcy practice, which wasn't too shabby to start. Jenner DC's ordinary litigation work is strong enough (they aren't going to be ranked highly for lit because they don't have hordes of associates doing doc review--that's GOOD for you), and their appellate work is stellar. Associates are not segregated into an appellate practice group. If you're good, you have just as much of a shot at working on SCOTUS or other high-profile appeals as anyone else, but you can develop trial litigation skills as well. Covington has a great reputation and the name carries beyond DC (witness this thread), but I can almost guarantee that their fancy people aren't as friendly and accessible as the fancy people at Jenner DC. Besides, Jenner will let you leave to do a clerkship and come back--they actually brag about how many SAs leave and then end up back at the firm years later.


It seems that Jenner is in really good shape - maybe because it is really diversified/has a big corporate practice in Chicago/NY. But as far as I can tell Jenner DC didn't lay off anyone/defer/freeze salaries. Covington DC did well too, but they had to freeze salaries - that's definitely my preference though for how to handle economic problems, so I think their response was admirable.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Jenner vs. Covington (both DC)

Postby rayiner » Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:17 pm

dbt wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Seems like you liked people at Jenner. Follow your gut. I have direct experience with Jenner and know SAs at Covington. Jenner Chicago had a great year last year, mainly because of Lehman--but note that Lehman can do nothing but increase the reputation of the firm's bankruptcy practice, which wasn't too shabby to start. Jenner DC's ordinary litigation work is strong enough (they aren't going to be ranked highly for lit because they don't have hordes of associates doing doc review--that's GOOD for you), and their appellate work is stellar. Associates are not segregated into an appellate practice group. If you're good, you have just as much of a shot at working on SCOTUS or other high-profile appeals as anyone else, but you can develop trial litigation skills as well. Covington has a great reputation and the name carries beyond DC (witness this thread), but I can almost guarantee that their fancy people aren't as friendly and accessible as the fancy people at Jenner DC. Besides, Jenner will let you leave to do a clerkship and come back--they actually brag about how many SAs leave and then end up back at the firm years later.


It seems that Jenner is in really good shape - maybe because it is really diversified/has a big corporate practice in Chicago/NY. But as far as I can tell Jenner DC didn't lay off anyone/defer/freeze salaries. Covington DC did well too, but they had to freeze salaries - that's definitely my preference though for how to handle economic problems, so I think their response was admirable.


They had 80% offers in Chicago office and have drastically trimmed their summer class.

User avatar
dbt
Posts: 617
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:46 am

Re: Jenner vs. Covington (both DC)

Postby dbt » Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:30 pm

Thanks that's a good idea too - I checked Covington's offer rates across offices and they were all very good, whereas Jenner Chicago's wasn't. Jenner DC was 100% though.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273311
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Jenner vs. Covington (both DC)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:38 pm

rayiner wrote:
dbt wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Seems like you liked people at Jenner. Follow your gut. I have direct experience with Jenner and know SAs at Covington. Jenner Chicago had a great year last year, mainly because of Lehman--but note that Lehman can do nothing but increase the reputation of the firm's bankruptcy practice, which wasn't too shabby to start. Jenner DC's ordinary litigation work is strong enough (they aren't going to be ranked highly for lit because they don't have hordes of associates doing doc review--that's GOOD for you), and their appellate work is stellar. Associates are not segregated into an appellate practice group. If you're good, you have just as much of a shot at working on SCOTUS or other high-profile appeals as anyone else, but you can develop trial litigation skills as well. Covington has a great reputation and the name carries beyond DC (witness this thread), but I can almost guarantee that their fancy people aren't as friendly and accessible as the fancy people at Jenner DC. Besides, Jenner will let you leave to do a clerkship and come back--they actually brag about how many SAs leave and then end up back at the firm years later.


It seems that Jenner is in really good shape - maybe because it is really diversified/has a big corporate practice in Chicago/NY. But as far as I can tell Jenner DC didn't lay off anyone/defer/freeze salaries. Covington DC did well too, but they had to freeze salaries - that's definitely my preference though for how to handle economic problems, so I think their response was admirable.


They had 80% offers in Chicago office and have drastically trimmed their summer class.


Had a Jenner Chicago CB today...they had a 100% offer rate...not sure where you're getting your info from.

NYAssociate
Posts: 713
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:15 pm

Re: Jenner vs. Covington (both DC)

Postby NYAssociate » Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:45 pm

.
Last edited by NYAssociate on Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NYAssociate
Posts: 713
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:15 pm

Re: Jenner vs. Covington (both DC)

Postby NYAssociate » Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:51 pm

.
Last edited by NYAssociate on Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
dbt
Posts: 617
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:46 am

Re: Jenner vs. Covington (both DC)

Postby dbt » Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:22 pm

was just told by partner that cov's clerkship policy essentially lacks teeth and will be readjusted given the new clerkship market - so I'm taking that to mean they won't stand in your way if you decide to apply to clerkships a year or two into working at the firm.

still leery of this whole thing though. covington may be fine w/r/t clerkships now, but i'm not 100% sure, whereas I know jenner is entirely for you coming for a year or two and leaving to clerk.

User avatar
vamedic03
Posts: 1579
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:50 am

Re: Jenner vs. Covington (both DC)

Postby vamedic03 » Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:37 pm

dbt wrote:was just told by partner that cov's clerkship policy essentially lacks teeth and will be readjusted given the new clerkship market - so I'm taking that to mean they won't stand in your way if you decide to apply to clerkships a year or two into working at the firm.

still leery of this whole thing though. covington may be fine w/r/t clerkships now, but i'm not 100% sure, whereas I know jenner is entirely for you coming for a year or two and leaving to clerk.


Both policies can change between now and when you're a first year associate. I honestly would be very hesitant about making your decision based on this one tiny facet. Look at the which firm is a better fit for you in terms of: practice areas, associate development, and personality. No one can predict what the economy/legal market/clerkship market will look like in a year or 2-3 years. Plus, FWIW, if you're a rock-star associate, they'll want you back post clerkship, likewise, if you get a feeder, they'll want you back post clerkship. There are just way too many factors to hinge your decision on this one small aspect.

User avatar
dbt
Posts: 617
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:46 am

Re: Jenner vs. Covington (both DC)

Postby dbt » Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:04 pm

Chose Covington. Thanks for the input everyone!

Anonymous User
Posts: 273311
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Jenner vs. Covington (both DC)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:19 pm

Congrats on your choice. I'm a classmate of yours who will likely be joining you there this summer.

User avatar
dbt
Posts: 617
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:46 am

Re: Jenner vs. Covington (both DC)

Postby dbt » Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Congrats on your choice. I'm a classmate of yours who will likely be joining you there this summer.


Hope to meet you at the dinner next week!




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.