how many summer associate positions are there, nationwide? Forum

[shmoo597]

Read in a different thread an estimate of 4500-6000...is that accurate?

[Kohinoor]

Read in a different thread an estimate of 4500-6000...is that accurate?

Probably a half to two-thirds of that now.

[bwv812]

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[shmoo597]

question I meant to ask: does anyone have an estimate of market paying summer associate jobs?

[2011Cycle]

Responding employers reported a combined total of 3,779 individuals from the Class of 2010 participating in their 2009 summer programs, with an average class size of 12. The median class size was 6. The fact that the average is considerably above the median, especially in the larger firms, indicates the presence of some relatively large programs. Some reporting of firm-wide composites instead of outcomes for individual offices also pushed up the average.

The number of reporting offices was 307, but this number is subject to the last line quoted above.

The number will be substantially smaller for the summer of 2010/class of 2011, as lots of firms cut their classes significantly. Don't remember where, but someone here on TLS made an spreadsheet indicating class sizes over the last 3 years for the V100, which showed the class of 2011.

Obviously the above only shows NALP employers who participated and the other source only shows V100 firms, but it's still useful info.

Thanks for the report!!

[redsox421]

Shit, that's a smaller number than I expected. Especially because, in comparison, there's more than 15k spots (per class) in US med schools, and pretty much all of those lead to 120k+ jobs. Damn. I knew there were far more law school grads than med school ones, but I didn't think law students were competing for that many fewer high-paying jobs.

[digitalcntrl]

Shit, that's a smaller number than I expected. Especially because, in comparison, there's more than 15k spots (per class) in US med schools, and pretty much all of those lead to 120k+ jobs. Damn. I knew there were far more law school grads than med school ones, but I didn't think law students were competing for that many fewer high-paying jobs.

Wrong way to analyze this. SA spots , especially paid ones, are not a requirement to be a lawyer, Med school is. Additionally is very hard to get into Med school, and commitment especially since you are required to take a rigorous UG science course load. Even the lowest Med School would not accept an MCAT score below the 80th percentile to get in. Law school on the other hand is for everyone.

[bwv812]

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[nealric]

Good luck getting that info. I mean, there is a V100 firm that pays 130k in NYC (and a number that pay 145), as well as one that pays 100k in DC,

Thats a tiny group of firms. The only firms paying less than 145k are the ones who have switched to an apprenticeship program (i.e. Howery). Most (if not almost all) of the firms that dropped to 145k went back to 160k when the cut didn't take market wide. NALP is a pretty decent guideline, as there really are only a tiny handful of non market paying firms on NALP (especially if you consider regional market rates).

[rayiner]

http://www.nalp.org/uploads/PerspectivesonFallRec09.pdf - Page 11

3,779 individuals participating in the 2009 summer programs at NALP firms, 69.3% receiving an offer of full-time employment. That means 2,619 full-time associate positions.

That was *before* law firms cut their summer hiring by half for the 2010 and 2011 summer programs.

Assuming offer rates go back to 90% as they historically have been, my guess would be that there are ~2,500 students in the 2010 summer classes.

This is a superset of market-paying firm jobs.

[bwv812]

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[bwv812]

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[Anonymous User]

More info on the class of 2010/SA 2009:

I found the spreadsheet I was talking about earlier (I don't know where the link to it is, but como made it so you could probably pm him for the address). It doesn't actually show the change in SA class size, but it does show the 2009 SA/class of 2010 class sizes at V100 firms in six major markets (NY, DC, SF, Chicago, LA and Boston).

New York: 2523
DC: 913
SF: 294
Chicago: 453
LA: 477
Boston: 301

So, in these six markets alone, there were 4967 SA positions in 2010, and 84% of these got offers. (The percentage gaining offers is misleading, because there was a 97% offer rate in the V10, and they heavily skew the results with their huge class sizes.) Nevertheless, this figure for six markets alone (4697) is higher than the NALP study for the same year (3779), indicating significant under-reporting, especially since many NALP firms are not V100 and many markets are not represented in como's spreadsheet.

How do you know the % offer rate for summer of 2010 already? I thought some firms hadn't made decisions still. Link?

[bwv812]

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[Anonymous User]

More info on the class of 2010/SA 2009:

I found the spreadsheet I was talking about earlier (I don't know where the link to it is, but como made it so you could probably pm him for the address). It doesn't actually show the change in SA class size, but it does show the 2009 SA/class of 2010 class sizes at V100 firms in six major markets (NY, DC, SF, Chicago, LA and Boston).

New York: 2523
DC: 913
SF: 294
Chicago: 453
LA: 477
Boston: 301

So, in these six markets alone, there were 4967 SA positions in 2010, and 84% of these got offers. (The percentage gaining offers is misleading, because there was a 97% offer rate in the V10, and they heavily skew the results with their huge class sizes.) Nevertheless, this figure for six markets alone (4697) is higher than the NALP study for the same year (3779), indicating significant under-reporting, especially since many NALP firms are not V100 and many markets are not represented in como's spreadsheet.

How do you know the % offer rate for summer of 2010 already? I thought some firms hadn't made decisions still. Link?

Typo on that last year. Meant 2009 (which is was the context for the entire post).

84% seems a bit high for 2009 summer.

[bwv812]

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[Anonymous User]

Like I said, the V10 and their huge class sizes skew the results. V10 had 97% offer rate, while the V25 had a 93% offer rate and 2509 SA (i.e., more than half of V100 SA are in V25). This means that from V25-V100 the offer rate was more like 75%, and 68% in the V50-100. Offer rates were also significantly higher in NY than elsewhere, so not having more secondary market data skews the figures upwards.

Thanks for clarifying. I would love to see some 2010 figures, but I suppose it is too early.

[chup]

42.

[Anonymous User]

42.

I meant offer rates.

[chup]

42.

I meant offer rates.

*WHOOSH*

[Anonymous User]

42.

I meant offer rates.

*WHOOSH*

lol, I should have known this. Whale and flower.

[bk1]

42.

I meant offer rates.

lol

[FlanAl]

I'm resureccting this thread to see if anyone has been able to get this sort of data for last summer or projected for 2012 summer. If there is a link to this that would be great (I saw the NY one but there were only 30 firms listed). If there isn't any newer info I'll eventually go through NALP and add it up myself (probably after finals). thanks!

[nouseforaname123]

I'm resureccting this thread to see if anyone has been able to get this sort of data for last summer or projected for 2012 summer. If there is a link to this that would be great (I saw the NY one but there were only 30 firms listed). If there isn't any newer info I'll eventually go through NALP and add it up myself (probably after finals). thanks!

Start here:

http://www.nalp.org/uploads/Perspectives_Fall_2010.pdf

More general information here:

http://www.nalp.org/perspectivesonfallrecruiting

[FlanAl]

https://spreadsheets.google.com/a/corne ... XMHc&gid=1

5692 SA positions for 2011 in the major and majorish markets. not too shabby. if these spreadsheets are super whack and someone wants to fill me in that would be great.