Do firms look at SA's 2L grades before making perm offers?

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rcb5142
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Do firms look at SA's 2L grades before making perm offers?

Postby rcb5142 » Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:07 pm

Are decisions just based on work performance over the summer or do they want to see continued high academic achievement as well? Were SA's asked for their 2L transcripts?

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Re: Do firms look at SA's 2L grades before making perm offers?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:11 pm

There are some firms that do this. Gibson Dunn is one prominent example.

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Re: Do firms look at SA's 2L grades before making perm offers?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:20 pm

Baker Botts does too.

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Re: Do firms look at SA's 2L grades before making perm offers?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:24 pm

Heard mine does. (won't say which firm -- but it answers your question as written)

rcb5142
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Re: Do firms look at SA's 2L grades before making perm offers?

Postby rcb5142 » Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Heard mine does. (won't say which firm -- but it answers your question as written)


Fair enough.

What about at:
Ropes & Gray
Goodwin Procter
Bingham
Proskauer Rose

Boston offices. Thanks.

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Re: Do firms look at SA's 2L grades before making perm offers?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:49 pm

Ropes & Gray Boston does ask for a transcript after spring grades are released, but it was not likely a factor in extending permanent offers. Grades were not discussed at the final review, even for those whose academic performance slipped from that which got them hired.

bigben
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Re: Do firms look at SA's 2L grades before making perm offers?

Postby bigben » Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:03 pm

Most ask for your transcript. The vast majority don't take your grades into account.

digitalcntrl
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Re: Do firms look at SA's 2L grades before making perm offers?

Postby digitalcntrl » Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:06 pm

bigben wrote:Most ask for your transcript. The vast majority don't take your grades into account.


It would be pretty odd if they did'nt. I mean seriously would anyone offer employment not knowing whether you are finishing law school?

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RVP11
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Re: Do firms look at SA's 2L grades before making perm offers?

Postby RVP11 » Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:18 pm

digitalcntrl wrote:
bigben wrote:Most ask for your transcript. The vast majority don't take your grades into account.


It would be pretty odd if they did'nt. I mean seriously would anyone offer employment not knowing whether you are finishing law school?


If you're at a school good enough to get you a firm job, you're at a school that doesn't fail people out.

Why would grades matter? Employers care about grades because it's an easy sorting mechanism of incoming 2Ls and it has some predictive ability for performance as an associate. If you've seen the person do 10-15 assignments over a summer, why are you still going to rely on such an indirect indicator of actual ability?

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Re: Do firms look at SA's 2L grades before making perm offers?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:18 pm

digitalcntrl wrote:
bigben wrote:Most ask for your transcript. The vast majority don't take your grades into account.


It would be pretty odd if they did'nt. I mean seriously would anyone offer employment not knowing whether you are finishing law school?



It is true that most do not take them into account, though (as odd as it might seem to you). They've already invested a lot in you, and it is easier for them to understand what type of worker you are from the summer v from your transcript.

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Re: Do firms look at SA's 2L grades before making perm offers?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:12 pm

Are they looking for an improvement, maintenance, or that you just finished your 2L year?

digitalcntrl
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Re: Do firms look at SA's 2L grades before making perm offers?

Postby digitalcntrl » Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
digitalcntrl wrote:
bigben wrote:Most ask for your transcript. The vast majority don't take your grades into account.


It would be pretty odd if they did'nt. I mean seriously would anyone offer employment not knowing whether you are finishing law school?



It is true that most do not take them into account, though (as odd as it might seem to you). They've already invested a lot in you, and it is easier for them to understand what type of worker you are from the summer v from your transcript.


I meant it would be odd of them not request a transcript to see that you are going to finish law school, not that your grades might slip.

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Re: Do firms look at SA's 2L grades before making perm offers?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:25 pm

digitalcntrl wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
digitalcntrl wrote:
bigben wrote:Most ask for your transcript. The vast majority don't take your grades into account.


It would be pretty odd if they did'nt. I mean seriously would anyone offer employment not knowing whether you are finishing law school?



It is true that most do not take them into account, though (as odd as it might seem to you). They've already invested a lot in you, and it is easier for them to understand what type of worker you are from the summer v from your transcript.


I meant it would be odd of them not request a transcript to see that you are going to finish law school, not that your grades might slip.



Oh. Reading comp FAIL FML.

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Re: Do firms look at SA's 2L grades before making perm offers?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Are they looking for an improvement, maintenance, or that you just finished your 2L year?



I am assuming improvement or maintenance (or very slight drop). They just want to make sure you don't dropp off the cliff your 2L year, I imagine.

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Re: Do firms look at SA's 2L grades before making perm offers?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Are they looking for an improvement, maintenance, or that you just finished your 2L year?



I am assuming improvement or maintenance (or very slight drop). They just want to make sure you don't dropp off the cliff your 2L year, I imagine.


what about for a transfer student? Would they expect the same outcome at your new school? median at the new school?

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Re: Do firms look at SA's 2L grades before making perm offers?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Are they looking for an improvement, maintenance, or that you just finished your 2L year?



I am assuming improvement or maintenance (or very slight drop). They just want to make sure you don't dropp off the cliff your 2L year, I imagine.


I was kinda worried about this, as I am significantly below median and interviewing with firms that I honestly consider "out of my league." Not sure if it is a valid worry to go to a firm like this with not great grades, with no realistic hope of improvement, and get no-offered because of it.

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Re: Do firms look at SA's 2L grades before making perm offers?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Are they looking for an improvement, maintenance, or that you just finished your 2L year?



I am assuming improvement or maintenance (or very slight drop). They just want to make sure you don't dropp off the cliff your 2L year, I imagine.


I was kinda worried about this, as I am significantly below median and interviewing with firms that I honestly consider "out of my league." Not sure if it is a valid worry to go to a firm like this with not great grades, with no realistic hope of improvement, and get no-offered because of it.

Considering how much a summer associate costs, why would they offer you the position having already decided that you're not a contender?

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Re: Do firms look at SA's 2L grades before making perm offers?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:31 am

My firm did not.

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Re: Do firms look at SA's 2L grades before making perm offers?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:24 am

some do, and 2l grades are definitely a factor when it comes time to lateral

rcb5142
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Re: Do firms look at SA's 2L grades before making perm offers?

Postby rcb5142 » Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:58 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Are they looking for an improvement, maintenance, or that you just finished your 2L year?



I am assuming improvement or maintenance (or very slight drop). They just want to make sure you don't dropp off the cliff your 2L year, I imagine.


I was kinda worried about this, as I am significantly below median and interviewing with firms that I honestly consider "out of my league." Not sure if it is a valid worry to go to a firm like this with not great grades, with no realistic hope of improvement, and get no-offered because of it.


This is essentially my worry as well. I understand that firms aren't spending this money knowing that you have no chance, but if they have to cut 10-20% of the class at the end of it - then I could see how grades could again become a factor. (especially if everyone's performance is pretty good)

Anonymous User wrote:some do, and 2l grades are definitely a factor when it comes time to lateral


Thank you. This is good to know.

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Re: Do firms look at SA's 2L grades before making perm offers?

Postby NYAssociate » Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:22 am

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Last edited by NYAssociate on Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Do firms look at SA's 2L grades before making perm offers?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:24 am

Anonymous User wrote:some do, and 2l grades are definitely a factor when it comes time to lateral



Are they? Really? Grades matter when you've been in the workplace for 5 years??? That seems silly.

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Re: Do firms look at SA's 2L grades before making perm offers?

Postby NYAssociate » Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:42 am

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Last edited by NYAssociate on Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

12262010
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Re: Do firms look at SA's 2L grades before making perm offers?

Postby 12262010 » Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:49 am

if you can't keep up your 1L grades with a 2L curve you don't deserve a job.

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doyleoil
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Re: Do firms look at SA's 2L grades before making perm offers?

Postby doyleoil » Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:55 am

booyakasha wrote:if you can't keep up your 1L grades with a 2L curve you don't deserve a job.


probably true....if you go to a trade school




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