2010 Clerkship Calls Thread

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Anonymous User
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Re: 2010 Clerkship Calls Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:51 pm

I thought my results were nightmarishly bad, but based on a few of the other responses I guess they aren't anything out of the ordinary. Applied to basically all of the judges (around 700 applications), not a single interview yet.

Stats- t10, top 10%, no journal, no moot court. Strong recs from faculty, including my LRW prof.

I got a rejection letter from a district court in Mississippi and the judges stated he got over 300 applications for his 1 available clerkship position (and this is in Mississippi!). This is just brutal. I'm hoping for some luck with the judges that are hiring later in the season.

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Re: 2010 Clerkship Calls Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:13 pm

G. T. L. Rev. wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Stats- t10, top 10%, no journal, no moot court. Strong recs from faculty, including my LRW prof.

The bolded parts are really killing your app. Could be that you have valid reasons not to do either; but many clerks will assume you lack initiative when screening apps. Since the next guy in the pile has your stats with LR or moot court, the results aren't that surprising.


Any thoughts and or advice for a T2 ===> T14 transfer obtaining a clerkship next year with a secondary journal?

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Re: 2010 Clerkship Calls Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:03 pm

G. T. L. Rev. wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Stats- t10, top 10%, no journal, no moot court. Strong recs from faculty, including my LRW prof.

The bolded parts are really killing your app. Could be that you have valid reasons not to do either; but many clerks will assume you lack initiative when screening apps. Since the next guy in the pile has your stats with LR or moot court, the results aren't that surprising.


There wasn't a good reason to not do a journal. I was a transfer and only shot for law review (which only 1 person got into), and didn't really think of other journals because I hadn't originally planned on doing a clerkship. After getting owned at 2L OCI/recruiting and not getting a biglaw offer (like most of the transfers), I started looking into it. I knew the lack of law review (or a journal in general) would be a killer for CoA/district courts, but bankruptcy judges in the past didn't care much at all about journals. I was a bit surprised not to get any interviews there -- my GPA is higher than anyone that clerked for a bankruptcy judge from here in the past 6 years (which is when we started collecting data), and out of that pool only 25% had a journal, 0% had law review. I also have shown an interest in bankruptcy. No idea what happened there, but those judges might not be interviewing yet (or so I hope). Our list of interviews that have gone out here doesn't have a single bankruptcy judge on it yet. FWIW, I'd take a bankruptcy clerkship over a district court, particularly since I know it will very likely lead to a post-clerkship offer (right now) from a v10 firm.

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Re: 2010 Clerkship Calls Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:58 pm

Also T10, 10%, no journal, no moot court, no calls. Thought grades and local ties might be able to overcome the extracurriculars for at least one DCt, but so far no such luck.

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Re: 2010 Clerkship Calls Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:28 am

How important is doing a secondary journal if you didn't make law review? I'm a 2L and instead of cite checking not very good articles, I decided to be an RA. So I have extracurriculars, but no journal or moot court. How much will this hurt? Is being an RA a boost at all?

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Re: 2010 Clerkship Calls Thread

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:40 am

Anonymous User wrote:How important is doing a secondary journal if you didn't make law review? I'm a 2L and instead of cite checking not very good articles, I decided to be an RA. So I have extracurriculars, but no journal or moot court. How much will this hurt? Is being an RA a boost at all?


Not being on at least a secondary is fatal for basically all coa judges, and a large number of dcourts. Being an RA is only a boost to the extent that it gets you a better lor from the prof - no one actually considers RAing particularly substantive work. Good luck.

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Re: 2010 Clerkship Calls Thread

Postby 270910 » Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:40 am

Anonymous User wrote:How important is doing a secondary journal if you didn't make law review? I'm a 2L and instead of cite checking not very good articles, I decided to be an RA. So I have extracurriculars, but no journal or moot court. How much will this hurt? Is being an RA a boost at all?


A large percentage, and possibly a majority of the people I know planning to clerk are both on a journal and RAing. It's not really an either or in a field as competitive as clerkship applications.

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Re: 2010 Clerkship Calls Thread

Postby ClerkGuy2010 » Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:04 am

Anonymous User wrote:How important is doing a secondary journal if you didn't make law review? I'm a 2L and instead of cite checking not very good articles, I decided to be an RA. So I have extracurriculars, but no journal or moot court. How much will this hurt? Is being an RA a boost at all?


Do both. Lack of journal will hurt you with many federal judges (the strong majority, I'd wager); lack of journal or moot court will hurt you with almost all federal judges.

As for RA, I'm sure it can be a boost with some judges, but the biggest boost you can get from it isn't just doing it, it's fostering a relationship with that professor and getting a fantastic rec from him or her (and a call to the judge, too, if possible).

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Re: 2010 Clerkship Calls Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:01 pm

Did your friends have profs that called? How did they build those relationships (RA, note, office hours)? Is it best to get to know multiple profs or one really well?


All recommenders at my school are guilt-tripped by the career services office to make calls on behalf of their students. I've read other incumbent clerks discussing calls to chambers and saying that it doesn't mean anything unless the professor and the judge have a relationship. It could get your application pulled, but in this ridiculously competitive climate, tons of calls are being made, so I question their value in most circumstances. I had professors make calls for me, and we had decent relationships, but I didn't get any love from those judges. The two interviews I have were from judges that I thought would have little interest in my application.

Nonetheless, those few I know who got several interviews without top-5% & LR had strong relationships with their profs. I think the significance of a call where the professor sounds earnest and actually has something to say can't be discounted. RAing is key, office hours are key, taking multiple classes with a single professor and doing really well is key. Do whatever you can - if the professor really likes you, you might get hooked up with a cushy, unadvertised off-plan interview by virtue of a call he/she makes to a friend-judge.

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Re: 2010 Clerkship Calls Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Did your friends have profs that called? How did they build those relationships (RA, note, office hours)? Is it best to get to know multiple profs or one really well?


All recommenders at my school are guilt-tripped by the career services office to make calls on behalf of their students. I've read other incumbent clerks discussing calls to chambers and saying that it doesn't mean anything unless the professor and the judge have a relationship. It could get your application pulled, but in this ridiculously competitive climate, tons of calls are being made, so I question their value in most circumstances. I had professors make calls for me, and we had decent relationships, but I didn't get any love from those judges. The two interviews I have were from judges that I thought would have little interest in my application.

Nonetheless, those few I know who got several interviews without top-5% & LR had strong relationships with their profs. I think the significance of a call where the professor sounds earnest and actually has something to say can't be discounted. RAing is key, office hours are key, taking multiple classes with a single professor and doing really well is key. Do whatever you can - if the professor really likes you, you might get hooked up with a cushy, unadvertised off-plan interview by virtue of a call he/she makes to a friend-judge.


Are you the guy(or girl) who was top 15% at a t6 with secondary journal. If so, what would you have done differently to increase your chances (other than try for better grades)? Also, did you notice a difference between students who did better 1L or better 2L or about the same (assuming same rank after 2 years)?

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Re: 2010 Clerkship Calls Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:23 pm

Are you the guy(or girl) who was top 15% at a t6 with secondary journal. If so, what would you have done differently to increase your chances (other than try for better grades)? Also, did you notice a difference between students who did better 1L or better 2L or about the same (assuming same rank after 2 years)?


Yeah, that's me. The friend of mine who killed it (many interview calls in tough locations including a couple COA) was Top-10%, secondary journal and did about as well 1L as 2L. You hear a lot about how 1L grades are more valuable than 2L grades, and in my anecdotal experience, this holds true (I did better 2L than 1L).

However, my friend also really cultivated relationships with willing professors, through RAing & etc, and I think that's where the real difference was. If I were talking to a rising 2L right now with time left to choose classes, I would recommend targeting professors who are known as very accessible. Most professors I had, even those I used as recommenders, simply didn't have the time or interest in spending a significant amount of time with students. If you can find someone who is interested in his/her students, and get close to him/her via office hours or RAing, you are on your way to a strong recommendation.

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Re: 2010 Clerkship Calls Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:22 am

Got my CoA offer today. Same poster above - - T25, LR, published, t2%

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Re: 2010 Clerkship Calls Thread

Postby Lawschoolman » Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:02 am

I was under the impression most judges make "exploding offers." If you don't get an offer right after, or within 24 of your interview, are you pretty much done?

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Re: 2010 Clerkship Calls Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:47 am

I was under the impression most judges make "exploding offers." If you don't get an offer right after, or within 24 of your interview, are you pretty much done?


Depends. COA judges seem to be more prove to give exploding offers, since they are all trying to poach a limited pool of top talent. However, many of the judges who are hiring on plan this year are making sure to interview their full schedule of applicants, through Friday, before they give any offers. This is a humane way of doing things, since an exploding offer judge could ask an applicant to fly across the country, and then not even interview him/her.

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Re: 2010 Clerkship Calls Thread

Postby TTT-LS » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:50 am

Anonymous User wrote:Got my CoA offer today. Same poster above - - T25, LR, published, t2%

Congrats! You have a great year ahead.

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Re: 2010 Clerkship Calls Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:55 am

Anonymous User wrote:
I was under the impression most judges make "exploding offers." If you don't get an offer right after, or within 24 of your interview, are you pretty much done?


Depends. COA judges seem to be more prove to give exploding offers, since they are all trying to poach a limited pool of top talent. However, many of the judges who are hiring on plan this year are making sure to interview their full schedule of applicants, through Friday, before they give any offers. This is a humane way of doing things, since an exploding offer judge could ask an applicant to fly across the country, and then not even interview him/her.


Mostly agree with this - though I don't know how anyone can tell if "many of the judges who are hiring on plan this year" are actually waiting. Considering we are a full one day into interviews.

The problem is gamesmanship - obviously on both sides. Judges know that if they wait they could get poached the next day and applicants know they can't say no. So the apparent "solution" is that applicants schedule their top choices first . . . and so on. But that is a terrible answer to the problem because if Judge 1 calls you at 9:01 on Monday and says that he can get you in on Thursday morning it is pretty ballsy to say, "nah, how about Monday?." And then Judge 2 calls you at 9:06 on Monday and says, "hmm how about Thursday morning" . . . well, you get the picture.

In the end, the system sucks.

To answer the question above - It depends on the judge, the Circuit, whether you have additional interviews and tell the judge you are interviewing with, when you interview in the cycle.

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Re: 2010 Clerkship Calls Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:47 pm

TTT-LS wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Got my CoA offer today. Same poster above - - T25, LR, published, t2%

Congrats! You have a great year ahead.


Thanks! Absolutely ecstatic.

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Re: 2010 Clerkship Calls Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:37 pm

Thought my interviews today were incredibly mediocre. Absolutely livid with myself for fucking up my 1 hr of chances.




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