great screening -> no callback

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
270910
Posts: 2437
Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 9:51 pm

Re: great screening -> no callback

Postby 270910 » Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:44 am

SBL wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Happens to everyone

TIentirelyTCR. Nothing else needs to be said. Most people interviewed don't get callbacks, even if things go well.


Yup.

My strong belief is that screening interviewers have nearly total "ding" authority (i.e. if they say "this guy was kind of a fuckstick, I'd pass" the committee isn't going to bat an eyelash about not calling the person back). But when it comes to actually offering callbacks, most firms just take the interviewers thoughts into account while making a committee decision. Which means the "great interview" or "meh" interview gets boiled into a few diplomatic phrases on a write up or tossed around in a meeting.

As an example, I saw the "evaluation" form used at the callback stage at one firm. It was basically three questions, each with a scale: How smart is the candidate, how articulate/presentable is the candidate, and hire / don't hire / don't care. My guess is many also include "interest in firm" and "interest in region" or "interest in practice area" - but beyond that, the decisions are by and large being made by a committee looking at your paper credentials + a write up of impressions from the interview, meaning what goes down during those 20-30 minutes is probably in most cases much less important than people walk away feeling.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273405
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: great screening -> no callback

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:53 am

area" - but beyond that, the decisions are by and large being made by a committee looking at your paper credentials + a write up of impressions from the interview, meaning what goes down during those 20-30 minutes is probably in most cases much less important than people walk away feeling.


I know multiple V5s and V10s where screeners don't run callbacks by committee. They are free to give them to whomever they want (within a pre-defined limit, of course). There are probably many more firms that do this, but you definitely can't make the generalization you made from having seen one form.

270910
Posts: 2437
Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 9:51 pm

Re: great screening -> no callback

Postby 270910 » Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:00 am

Anonymous User wrote:
area" - but beyond that, the decisions are by and large being made by a committee looking at your paper credentials + a write up of impressions from the interview, meaning what goes down during those 20-30 minutes is probably in most cases much less important than people walk away feeling.


I know multiple V5s and V10s where screeners don't run callbacks by committee. They are free to give them to whomever they want (within a pre-defined limit, of course). There are probably many more firms that do this, but you definitely can't make the generalization you made from having seen one form.


Fair enough. I know several V10 firms that do use a committee at the screening -> callback stage, so maybe it's not "by and large." But the effect of "pre-definied limits" will likely exert similar pressures, even where screening interviewers have more authority.

User avatar
Cavalier
Posts: 1994
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:13 pm

Re: great screening -> no callback

Postby Cavalier » Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:16 am

From what I've heard, if you're not a strong candidate, you have to use the screening interview to sell yourself. You and the screening interviewer may get along great, but you've got median credentials, talking about sports for 20 minutes won't get you a callback.

Don't worry not getting anything from great screening interviews - everyone's experienced it.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273405
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: great screening -> no callback

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:38 am

Okay, I don't see what's wrong with looking at notes during OCI. I made up a "fact sheet" on each firm (practice strengths, SA program, pro bono work) that I (very obviously) wrote on during my screenings. I have sub-median grades and I still received 9 callbacks, probably because I was able to work into the conversation substantive information about my desire to work at the firm.

Firms know you haven't "wanted to work at X, Y & Z LLP since you were ten," and many firms look the same at first glance. I've found that they appreciate it when you've done your research and understand that you're not going to memorize notes on 5-6 firms each day.

EDIT: To the poster below, I've thus far received 3 offers. It's not suicide in the least.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:48 am, edited 5 times in total.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273405
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: great screening -> no callback

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:39 am

looking at notes during OCI is suicide. It makes you look unprepared and childish.

NYAssociate
Posts: 713
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:15 pm

Re: great screening -> no callback

Postby NYAssociate » Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:47 am

.
Last edited by NYAssociate on Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273405
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: great screening -> no callback

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:49 am

NYAssociate wrote:I feel like you're both not talking to each other. Looking at notes during the interview week is fine. Looking at notes DURING the interview? I don't know about other interviewers, but I'd be miffed.


No, we're both talking about screening interviews, although I referenced my notes during CBs as well.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273405
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: great screening -> no callback

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:51 am

Anonymous User wrote:
area" - but beyond that, the decisions are by and large being made by a committee looking at your paper credentials + a write up of impressions from the interview, meaning what goes down during those 20-30 minutes is probably in most cases much less important than people walk away feeling.


I know multiple V5s and V10s where screeners don't run callbacks by committee. They are free to give them to whomever they want (within a pre-defined limit, of course). There are probably many more firms that do this, but you definitely can't make the generalization you made from having seen one form.


Or, you could end up with a screening interview in which the two people you are interviewing with are half the hiring committee, like I did. In which case, I am pretty sure that they have a lot of say over who gets a callback beyond nebulous notes. Since, you know, they are the ones who make that determination.

NYAssociate
Posts: 713
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:15 pm

Re: great screening -> no callback

Postby NYAssociate » Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:53 am

.
Last edited by NYAssociate on Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273405
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: great screening -> no callback

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:55 am

NYAssociate wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
NYAssociate wrote:I feel like you're both not talking to each other. Looking at notes during the interview week is fine. Looking at notes DURING the interview? I don't know about other interviewers, but I'd be miffed.


No, we're both talking about screening interviews, although I referenced my notes during CBs as well.



More power to you then. I just wouldn't tolerate it.


I don't see why not. They're glancing at your resume, saying things like "I see you worked at X last summer. How was that?;" you're glancing at your notes, saying things like "I see you have a rotation-based summer program. How do you think that benefits your summers over an assignment-based program?" I think a show of confidence (and the attitude that you're also trying to find a good fit for you) always looks good.

NYAssociate
Posts: 713
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:15 pm

Re: great screening -> no callback

Postby NYAssociate » Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:57 am

.
Last edited by NYAssociate on Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273405
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: great screening -> no callback

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:02 am

NYAssociate wrote:
I don't see why not. They're glancing at your resume, saying things like "I see you worked at X last summer. How was that?;" you're glancing at your notes, saying things like "I see you have a rotation-based summer program. How do you think that benefits your summers over an assignment-based program?"


These aren't the same things. Again, you obviously did fine. I just wouldn't tolerate it. Your competitors are being equally competent without notes. I don't see how, all things being equal between you and those candidates, the fact that you used notes can reflect positively in comparison.


Because you likely have access to a lot more information about the firm than your competitors have probably managed to remember, and you have less of a chance of making a mistake, ie. talking about the firm's non-existent tax practice.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273405
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: great screening -> no callback

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:09 am

Anonymous User wrote:
NYAssociate wrote:
I don't see why not. They're glancing at your resume, saying things like "I see you worked at X last summer. How was that?;" you're glancing at your notes, saying things like "I see you have a rotation-based summer program. How do you think that benefits your summers over an assignment-based program?"


These aren't the same things. Again, you obviously did fine. I just wouldn't tolerate it. Your competitors are being equally competent without notes. I don't see how, all things being equal between you and those candidates, the fact that you used notes can reflect positively in comparison.


Because you likely have access to a lot more information about the firm than your competitors have probably managed to remember, and you have less of a chance of making a mistake, ie. talking about the firm's non-existent tax practice.


his point is that the candidate who can do just that (demonstrate info about the firm) without looking at his notes, i.e., having memorized it, will look that much better than the candidate visibly glancing at his notes during the interview, and that ITE you have to hustle.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273405
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: great screening -> no callback

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:12 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
NYAssociate wrote:
I don't see why not. They're glancing at your resume, saying things like "I see you worked at X last summer. How was that?;" you're glancing at your notes, saying things like "I see you have a rotation-based summer program. How do you think that benefits your summers over an assignment-based program?"


These aren't the same things. Again, you obviously did fine. I just wouldn't tolerate it. Your competitors are being equally competent without notes. I don't see how, all things being equal between you and those candidates, the fact that you used notes can reflect positively in comparison.


Because you likely have access to a lot more information about the firm than your competitors have probably managed to remember, and you have less of a chance of making a mistake, ie. talking about the firm's non-existent tax practice.


his point is that the candidate who can do just that (demonstrate info about the firm) without looking at his notes, i.e., having memorized it, will look that much better than the candidate visibly glancing at his notes during the interview, and that ITE you have to hustle.


Yes, but realistically, who during OCI has time to memorize information about 20+ firms, particularly if/when 4-5 are in a row? My point is that it's not suicide to look at notes. I know very few people who were able to memorize that kind of substantive information about firms, and I heard quite a few horror stories about mistakes being made in re: basic firm information. If you can elegantly work your notes into your information, it can be a boon, and again, it's certainly not suicide.

NYAssociate
Posts: 713
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:15 pm

Re: great screening -> no callback

Postby NYAssociate » Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:15 am

.
Last edited by NYAssociate on Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273405
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: great screening -> no callback

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:18 am

NYAssociate wrote:
Yes, but realistically, who during OCI has time to memorize information about 20+ firms, particularly if/when 4-5 are in a row?


I did, and so did your competitors. Are you just really bad at managing your time? Between every interview, I had at least 20 minutes. More than enough time to figure out firm mechanics, consult chambersandpartners, and stuff it all in your head.

I didn't sit down and memorize everything the day before EIP/EIW for every firm. I did, however, make notes for each firm, and consulted them between each interview to keep my memory fresh.

Is your memory just really bad? I didn't find it terribly hard to remember that a firm was on a rotation system, that it's Band 1 for litigation in market x, etc.


Many of my interviews were scheduled 10-15 minutes apart, and usually 4-5 of those minutes were spent trying to wrap up an interview so I could bolt up several flights of stairs.

It may be simple to remember strong practice areas and the type of summer program, but this stuff is very basic. I was also interested in discussing their pro bono work - particularly which organizations they regularly consult with, since I worked with a number of PI organizations this year - and recent cases they worked on which interested me.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273405
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: great screening -> no callback

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:21 am

I made up a neat spreadsheet of info on firms I screened with, and glanced at it during interviews. I was complimented on being well-prepared by someone who noticed, and have received callbacks. It's hardly the kiss of death.

The important thing is to stay engaged with the interviewer, and only glance at your notes occasionally. Interviewers are actually human beings who understand that you might have eight screenings in one day, including some back to back.

NYAssociate
Posts: 713
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:15 pm

Re: great screening -> no callback

Postby NYAssociate » Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:27 am

.
Last edited by NYAssociate on Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
dresden doll
Posts: 6802
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:11 am

Re: great screening -> no callback

Postby dresden doll » Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:31 am

I'd have felt awkward consulting notes. Then again, WTF do I know.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273405
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: great screening -> no callback

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:34 am

NYAssociate wrote:Again, I'm not making an objective point. All I'm saying is that when your competitors can do what you do without having to consult notes, don't expect me to be impressed by your act.

And believe me, your competitors don't consult notes. Neither did I when I interviewed.


Okay, and...I still got a bunch of CBs. No one is asking you to be "impressed," but you don't need to trash talk people who don't have as stellar a memory as you and refer to everyone as your "competitor" when people like myself are doing just as well as you despite this alleged "handicap." It doesn't matter as much as you think it does. I just try to be my best possible self and make a good impression.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

BobSacamano
Posts: 224
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:51 pm

Re: great screening -> no callback

Postby BobSacamano » Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:39 am

Sitting upright near the edge of your seat with your portfolio open in your lap is pretty much the standard "interviewing position." I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. Having a couple looseleaf sheets in your hand might look weird, however.

Stop obsessing over this stuff, people.

NYAssociate
Posts: 713
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:15 pm

Re: great screening -> no callback

Postby NYAssociate » Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:39 am

.
Last edited by NYAssociate on Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273405
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: great screening -> no callback

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:57 am

BobSacamano wrote:Sitting upright near the edge of your seat with your portfolio open in your lap is pretty much the standard "interviewing position." I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. Having a couple looseleaf sheets in your hand might look weird, however.

Stop obsessing over this stuff, people.



Wrong. Don't have stuff open.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273405
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: great screening -> no callback

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:59 am

Wait you don't put your portfolio on the table?

Have I been making a faux pas by doing that?




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.