No offer

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Anonymous User
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Re: No offer

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:00 am

chup wrote:
NYAssociate wrote:To the OP: I'm truly sorry for the event. It's fortunate that you are still finding a way to land on your feet, at least emotionally.

To the forum: I wish more people would out which firms are no-offering. ATL paints a very rosy picture, but it's not exactly helpful since we know many other firms (or offices of firms with other offices boasting 100% offer rates) are putting their SAs in the OP's position.

Does ATL factor in cold offers in their rush to post champaign jpegs?


How to know an offer is a "cold offer" if they do not explicitly tell you that is a cold offer?

270910
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Re: No offer

Postby 270910 » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:54 am

Anonymous User wrote:
chup wrote:
NYAssociate wrote:To the OP: I'm truly sorry for the event. It's fortunate that you are still finding a way to land on your feet, at least emotionally.

To the forum: I wish more people would out which firms are no-offering. ATL paints a very rosy picture, but it's not exactly helpful since we know many other firms (or offices of firms with other offices boasting 100% offer rates) are putting their SAs in the OP's position.

Does ATL factor in cold offers in their rush to post champaign jpegs?


How to know an offer is a "cold offer" if they do not explicitly tell you that is a cold offer?


*face palm*

A cold offer is one where they TELL YOU they are giving you an offer as a gesture to help your job hunt only, and that you are not welcome back at the firm.

They might not say "Here's your cold offer boss!" but it should be pretty clear to you whether the firm is like "yaaay see you after 3L!" or "Here's your "offer" good luck in the job hunt have a nice life"

Anonymous User
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Re: No offer

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:37 am

Is one barred from applying with other firms when a no offer happens? Is it that unlikely that another firm would take them?

awesomepossum
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Re: No offer

Postby awesomepossum » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:42 am

Anonymous User wrote:Is one barred from applying with other firms when a no offer happens? Is it that unlikely that another firm would take them?



Even these days, it seems unreasonably difficult (though not impossible) to obtain an associate position after being no-offered. It just seems like being no-offered is a real black mark because firms don't want to take another firms "throwaways," even if it's for economic reasons.

Practically speaking, another problem is that 3L OCI is a joke. If you're looking for a job after being no-offered, the choices you have are far more limited.

270910
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Re: No offer

Postby 270910 » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:43 am

Anonymous User wrote:Is one barred from applying with other firms when a no offer happens? Is it that unlikely that another firm would take them?


Of course you're not barred. It's a black mark though. Especially at 3L OCI many firms often won't seriously consider somebody without an offer from their prior firm.

keg411
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Re: No offer

Postby keg411 » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:54 am

How do we know this was an ITE no-offer? It sounds like OP didn't like BigLaw and that the people at the firm likely picked up on it. Why would you give a permanent job offer to someone who hated it?

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20160810
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Re: No offer

Postby 20160810 » Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:26 am

disco_barred wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is one barred from applying with other firms when a no offer happens? Is it that unlikely that another firm would take them?


Of course you're not barred. It's a black mark though. Especially at 3L OCI many firms often won't seriously consider somebody without an offer from their prior firm.

What about people who summer with a firm they don't like very much, get an offer, and try to pursue something else at 3L OCI? Will the firms at OCI just kind of assume that because you (A.) worked for a firm last summer and (B.) aren't continuing to work for that firm that you were no-offered?

awesomepossum
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Re: No offer

Postby awesomepossum » Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:38 am

SBL wrote:
disco_barred wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is one barred from applying with other firms when a no offer happens? Is it that unlikely that another firm would take them?


Of course you're not barred. It's a black mark though. Especially at 3L OCI many firms often won't seriously consider somebody without an offer from their prior firm.

What about people who summer with a firm they don't like very much, get an offer, and try to pursue something else at 3L OCI? Will the firms at OCI just kind of assume that because you (A.) worked for a firm last summer and (B.) aren't continuing to work for that firm that you were no-offered?


No. You show them you have an offer.

270910
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Re: No offer

Postby 270910 » Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:08 pm

SBL wrote:
disco_barred wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is one barred from applying with other firms when a no offer happens? Is it that unlikely that another firm would take them?


Of course you're not barred. It's a black mark though. Especially at 3L OCI many firms often won't seriously consider somebody without an offer from their prior firm.

What about people who summer with a firm they don't like very much, get an offer, and try to pursue something else at 3L OCI? Will the firms at OCI just kind of assume that because you (A.) worked for a firm last summer and (B.) aren't continuing to work for that firm that you were no-offered?


That's exactly what 3L OCI is "for." Firms usually go to poach storng candidates who did well and got an offer but are looking for something else.

It goes without saying that the MARKET for such quazi-laterals is minuscule, but that's really what it's for. Stories of the conversation being like "Hello 3L! Did your 2L firm make you an offer?" "No, bu..." "Thanks for your time, and good luck with your job search!"

Anonymous User
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Re: No offer

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:59 pm

I was also no offered. V100. Looking for suggestions on how to spin this in any upcoming interviews. Will it help that I worked the second half of the summer in a government intern gig that will speak highly of me?

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: No offer

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I was also no offered. V100. Looking for suggestions on how to spin this in any upcoming interviews. Will it help that I worked the second half of the summer in a government intern gig that will speak highly of me?


..wait, did you split your summer? Intentionally? Or was it just "well, I have some down time after the full SA program is over..."

Because if you split your summer: LOLWTF.

Also: confirmed that 3L OCI is really for people looking for an "upgrade"/change, as opposed to hedging against a no-offer.

270910
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Re: No offer

Postby 270910 » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:46 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I was also no offered. V100. Looking for suggestions on how to spin this in any upcoming interviews. Will it help that I worked the second half of the summer in a government intern gig that will speak highly of me?


..wait, did you split your summer? Intentionally? Or was it just "well, I have some down time after the full SA program is over..."

Because if you split your summer: LOLWTF.

Also: confirmed that 3L OCI is really for people looking for an "upgrade"/change, as opposed to hedging against a no-offer.


It's not quite so cut and dry re: splitting. It's stupid x 100 to split with 2 firms (absent minor exceptions like Texas, 1L firms for 2 weeks or something) but less obviously stupid to split with a govt gig, especially since those don't yield full time offers. I know people who did firm/DoJ without issue.

Aqualibrium
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Re: No offer

Postby Aqualibrium » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:54 pm

Explain to me why it is stupid to split? Many firms in the three closest secondary markets to me only have programs for one half of the summer, so this may be a market dependent thing...

270910
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Re: No offer

Postby 270910 » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:56 pm

Aqualibrium wrote:Explain to me why it is stupid to split? Many firms in the three closest secondary markets to me only have programs for one half of the summer, so this may be a market dependent thing...


It's certainly market dependent, but the idea is to get a fulltime offer from your summer firm, and they have MUCH less incentive to do that if you spend half the summer at another firm. Still, it's the way of things in markets like Texas, so you have to play the game the way it's played there. But if you're splitting for even legit personal or professional reasons elsewhere, it could be quite detrimental to your offer odds.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: No offer

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:57 pm

Aqualibrium wrote:Explain to me why it is stupid to split? Many firms in the three closest secondary markets to me only have programs for one half of the summer, so this may be a market dependent thing...


If you can do the entire program of one of the firms, and still work elsewhere, that's fine. But splitting - losing part of the summer program - in the current environment is insane. You need the full program to prove your worth, get your name around, etc.

Splitting with a government agency - again, if it results in losing part of the firm's program - is a flag that screams "I only want biglaw to pay off the debt, then I'm getting the fuck out" - and firms don't like that.

Anonymous User
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Re: No offer

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:44 pm

"If you can do the entire program of one of the firms, and still work elsewhere, that's fine."

That's my situation, but what do I say to future employers about the fact that I did do a full summer associate program and did not receive an offer, even though the government work I am doing will provide me with a great reference?

Anonymous User
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Re: No offer

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:"If you can do the entire program of one of the firms, and still work elsewhere, that's fine."

That's my situation, but what do I say to future employers about the fact that I did do a full summer associate program and did not receive an offer, even though the government work I am doing will provide me with a great reference?


d00d, your best option here is the following: Forget about firm jobs next year (you've got zero chance of it ITE) and apply for public interest. Spin it so that you get a government position after you graduate and TWO YEARS from now, apply to Big Law again. That way, they'll assume you didn't work for a firm because you wanted something government-related. No firm likes another firm's sloppy seconds, but this way it's easy to portray yourself as just having a 'change of heart' re: public vs. private work.

Aqualibrium
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Re: No offer

Postby Aqualibrium » Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:00 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:
Aqualibrium wrote:Explain to me why it is stupid to split? Many firms in the three closest secondary markets to me only have programs for one half of the summer, so this may be a market dependent thing...


If you can do the entire program of one of the firms, and still work elsewhere, that's fine. But splitting - losing part of the summer program - in the current environment is insane. You need the full program to prove your worth, get your name around, etc.

Splitting with a government agency - again, if it results in losing part of the firm's program - is a flag that screams "I only want biglaw to pay off the debt, then I'm getting the fuck out" - and firms don't like that.



You and Disco have done a good job of scaring the crap out of me. In the main markets I'm interested in, you are expected to split; most firms actually only have a program for one half of the summer. However, I am also going to be doing some callbacks in a few major markets in the coming weeks. I'm now worried that they'll "accommodate" a split, but not really endorse it. I don't want to essentially work somewhere and have no real shot at an offer :?

Anonymous User
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Re: No offer

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:11 pm

I think the danger of splitting is overstated, or, more accurately, misstated. In some situations, it is pretty dumb to split. For example, if you're just trying to squeeze another couple weeks of pay out of the summer and the firms are pretty similar, it's not a great choice. On the other hand, if the firms are substantially different and you don't have good reasons to believe that both firms are unstable, it can be a reasonable choice.

I chose to split between a large firm with a historic 100% offer rate and a boutique and I couldn't be happier about my choice. It would have been foolhardy to spend the whole summer at the boutique because it tends to only extend offers to a fraction of its summers, but I would have missed out on something very cool had I spent the whole summer at the big firm.

nooffered
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Re: No offer

Postby nooffered » Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Strange feeling. Top 10% HYSCCN. I'm actually not that upset--maybe it just hasn't sunk in yet. But part of me thinks I might have just dodged a huge bullet, so long as I can figure out how to pay off my $200,000 or so in debt. Surprisingly not worried.


OP - same. same same same.

I made an anon name - wanna do likewise and PM?

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rayiner
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Re: No offer

Postby rayiner » Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:58 pm

nooffered wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Strange feeling. Top 10% HYSCCN. I'm actually not that upset--maybe it just hasn't sunk in yet. But part of me thinks I might have just dodged a huge bullet, so long as I can figure out how to pay off my $200,000 or so in debt. Surprisingly not worried.


OP - same. same same same.

I made an anon name - wanna do likewise and PM?


Out the TTT firm.

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ResolutePear
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Re: No offer

Postby ResolutePear » Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:20 pm

nooffered wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Strange feeling. Top 10% HYSCCN. I'm actually not that upset--maybe it just hasn't sunk in yet. But part of me thinks I might have just dodged a huge bullet, so long as I can figure out how to pay off my $200,000 or so in debt. Surprisingly not worried.


OP - same. same same same.

I made an anon name - wanna do likewise and PM?


It's been an entire year since OP posted?

Anonymous User
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Re: No offer

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:29 pm

What V50 firm had offer rates btwn 50% and 75% two years ago, as the OP implies?




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