Probably stupid mass mailing question

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Anonymous User
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Probably stupid mass mailing question

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:53 pm

Are these just sent out in typical envelopes folded three times or do some send them out unfolded in the large brown or manilla envelopes?

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MrKappus
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Re: Probably stupid mass mailing question

Postby MrKappus » Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Are these just sent out in typical envelopes folded three times or do some send them out unfolded in the large brown or manilla envelopes?


Why in the name of all that's holy wouldn't you just attach your docs as PDFs to an email?

Edit (to answer your OP): send 'em in flat envelopes.

stinger35
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Re: Probably stupid mass mailing question

Postby stinger35 » Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:11 pm

Seriously?

I thought snail mail was the credited response? That makes my life a whole lot easier if you can just email these campaigns

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Re: Probably stupid mass mailing question

Postby 270910 » Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:27 pm

Email is fine. Sending in a mailer (9x12, self sealing - not necessarily one of those ugly brown numbers) is a decent idea. It'll ensure your documents get there, get read, and aren't ugly and folded. Not necessary though. Some people have luck with emails, but it's undoubtedly easier for email to get missed or ignored in firm bureaucracy than snail mail.

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Matthies
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Re: Probably stupid mass mailing question

Postby Matthies » Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:37 pm

MrKappus wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Are these just sent out in typical envelopes folded three times or do some send them out unfolded in the large brown or manilla envelopes?


Why in the name of all that's holy wouldn't you just attach your docs as PDFs to an email?
Edit (to answer your OP): send 'em in flat envelopes.


Meh, e-mailing is fine to yours, and somewhat my generation. But unfortunately most hiring directors aren't 25 and don't have a face book page and can't text faster then they talk. Snail mail is still preferred at the firms I have worked at, especially with the volume they are getting this days. Likewise I don't want to pay my staff's salary to take your e-mail, print it out (using my ink I can't bill anyone for to spew out all 27 pages of your "short" writing sample), staple it together x 3000 so you can cold call me for a job with your randomly addressed To Hiring Committee cover letter that misspelled my firms name. Impress me by taking the time to put a damn stamp on it and taking it to the post office, or at least remove the BCC so I think maybe your actually targeting just my firm.

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Re: Probably stupid mass mailing question

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:44 pm

disco_barred wrote:Email is fine. Sending in a mailer (9x12, self sealing - not necessarily one of those ugly brown numbers) is a decent idea. It'll ensure your documents get there, get read, and aren't ugly and folded. Not necessary though. Some people have luck with emails, but it's undoubtedly easier for email to get missed or ignored in firm bureaucracy than snail mail.

Without saying too much, I'll say that I've had some luck with email. I think that your qualifications, the content of your cover letter and so forth all matter a great deal more than whether or not it was submitted electronically. Further, when you submit electronically, the recruiter can simply forward it to the people who might need it rather than having to make copies, so you're saving someone on their end a little work, which can only be a good thing.

The cost of direct snail mailing, not to mention the time it takes, is why I think that email is the way to go for this. You do run the risk of being snagged by the odd spam filter or accidentally deleted, but if you're leaning on a direct mail strategy in the first place, you should be applying to so many firms that missing one here and there won't really move the needle w/r/t your chances.

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Matthies
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Re: Probably stupid mass mailing question

Postby Matthies » Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:49 pm

SBL wrote:
disco_barred wrote:Email is fine. Sending in a mailer (9x12, self sealing - not necessarily one of those ugly brown numbers) is a decent idea. It'll ensure your documents get there, get read, and aren't ugly and folded. Not necessary though. Some people have luck with emails, but it's undoubtedly easier for email to get missed or ignored in firm bureaucracy than snail mail.

Without saying too much, I'll say that I've had some luck with email. I think that your qualifications, the content of your cover letter and so forth all matter a great deal more than whether or not it was submitted electronically. .


This is key, and when I think e-mailing is OK, when its trageted (aind if you do it right you send it directly to the person your targeting if you can). But I have seen how people react to spamm amss mailed To the hiring commite e-mails, total waste of time/resources for the staff which pisses them off and stuff tends to get "lost." If you can target that's allways best, but that's not really waht I would call mass mailing though.

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Re: Probably stupid mass mailing question

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:55 pm

Matthies wrote:
SBL wrote:
disco_barred wrote:Email is fine. Sending in a mailer (9x12, self sealing - not necessarily one of those ugly brown numbers) is a decent idea. It'll ensure your documents get there, get read, and aren't ugly and folded. Not necessary though. Some people have luck with emails, but it's undoubtedly easier for email to get missed or ignored in firm bureaucracy than snail mail.

Without saying too much, I'll say that I've had some luck with email. I think that your qualifications, the content of your cover letter and so forth all matter a great deal more than whether or not it was submitted electronically. .


This is key, and when I think e-mailing is OK, when its trageted (aind if you do it right you send it directly to the person your targeting if you can). But I have seen how people react to spamm amss mailed To the hiring commite e-mails, total waste of time/resources for the staff which pisses them off and stuff tends to get "lost." If you can target that's allways best, but that's not really waht I would call mass mailing though.

In my experience, sending an email to the general recruitment address hasn't necessarily been fatal. I think that people should at least be targeted to the extent of a cover letter that says (1.) why they'd be a good fit for the firm [my interest in X, as expressed through relevant work experience Y, could make me a good fit for your Z department, etc.] and (2.) why they want to work in that firm's city.

But like I said, the main thing is that they're going to look at your resume and either like what they see or not. Whether or not it came in electronically isn't going to move the needle much one way or the other IMHO.

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Matthies
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Re: Probably stupid mass mailing question

Postby Matthies » Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:00 pm

SBL wrote:
Matthies wrote:
SBL wrote:
disco_barred wrote:Email is fine. Sending in a mailer (9x12, self sealing - not necessarily one of those ugly brown numbers) is a decent idea. It'll ensure your documents get there, get read, and aren't ugly and folded. Not necessary though. Some people have luck with emails, but it's undoubtedly easier for email to get missed or ignored in firm bureaucracy than snail mail.

Without saying too much, I'll say that I've had some luck with email. I think that your qualifications, the content of your cover letter and so forth all matter a great deal more than whether or not it was submitted electronically. .


This is key, and when I think e-mailing is OK, when its trageted (aind if you do it right you send it directly to the person your targeting if you can). But I have seen how people react to spamm amss mailed To the hiring commite e-mails, total waste of time/resources for the staff which pisses them off and stuff tends to get "lost." If you can target that's allways best, but that's not really waht I would call mass mailing though.

In my experience, sending an email to the general recruitment address hasn't necessarily been fatal. I think that people should at least be targeted to the extent of a cover letter that says (1.) why they'd be a good fit for the firm [my interest in X, as expressed through relevant work experience Y, could make me a good fit for your Z department, etc.] and (2.) why they want to work in that firm's city.

But like I said, the main thing is that they're going to look at your resume and either like what they see or not. Whether or not it came in electronically isn't going to move the needle much one way or the other IMHO.


You'd be very suprised how many I have seen that just send a generic letter, so genric you know its a mail merge and then say PLEASE CONATCT ME IF YOUR INTRESTED. WTF why did we just print that? People like to think sending out 1000 generic e-mails/letters is a job search, its not. Its wasting my time and thiers.

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Re: Probably stupid mass mailing question

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:04 pm

Adding a line or two about the specific firm and a (short) paragraph about your ties to the region takes only moments and helps your chances immensely. Not doing so is idiotic and insures your chances of success with direct mailing go from low to none. If you can't be troubled to do 30 seconds of cover letter customization, why in the world would they want to call you?

In one of the firms I got an interview with from direct mailing, they even said specifically that they appreciated my spelling out my ties to that region and were giving me the interview in part because of that.

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Re: Probably stupid mass mailing question

Postby Matthies » Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:18 pm

SBL wrote:Adding a line or two about the specific firm and a (short) paragraph about your ties to the region takes only moments and helps your chances immensely. Not doing so is idiotic and insures your chances of success with direct mailing go from low to none. If you can't be troubled to do 30 seconds of cover letter customization, why in the world would they want to call you?

In one of the firms I got an interview with from direct mailing, they even said specifically that they appreciated my spelling out my ties to that region and were giving me the interview in part because of that.


This should be sticked. I'm seriouse, when you get in a firm and start seeing these letters come in, then see posts on places like TLS saying I sent out 8k letters and go no job! You start to think they m ight be same person you got a letter from was titled: Dear Hiring Committe without even puting the firms name/adress on the COVER letter! (even better when they start telling you what THEY are looking for in a frim for THEM) And that's exactly what we think, you can't even customize the mail merge and we are supposed to print out all your materails, study your resume and call you back? Um Why?

Aslo if your going to e-mail, attach your coverletter to your e-mail in PDF form (everything in PDF, many firms still use word perfect) not in the e-mail body itself. The last big frim I worked at did not support HTML is e-mail printing so all that nice formating you did in the e-mailas your cover letter printed out LIKE SHIT.

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20160810
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Re: Probably stupid mass mailing question

Postby 20160810 » Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:21 pm

.pdf is probably credited, but I don't have Acrobat so I just sent everything as .docx. :oops:

Edit: I also tend to start with "To Whom It May Concern." But taking 30 seconds to put the firm's name/address at the top of your cover letter is entirely credited.

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Re: Probably stupid mass mailing question

Postby 270910 » Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:25 pm

SBL wrote:.pdf is probably credited, but I don't have Acrobat so I just sent everything as .docx. :oops:

Edit: I also tend to start with "To Whom It May Concern." But taking 30 seconds to put the firm's name/address at the top of your cover letter is entirely credited.


You don't need acrobat, there's a plugin available somewhere on microsoft's website to save as PDFs for word. It's the greatest thing EVER.

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Re: Probably stupid mass mailing question

Postby 20160810 » Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:27 pm

disco_barred wrote:
SBL wrote:.pdf is probably credited, but I don't have Acrobat so I just sent everything as .docx. :oops:

Edit: I also tend to start with "To Whom It May Concern." But taking 30 seconds to put the firm's name/address at the top of your cover letter is entirely credited.


You don't need acrobat, there's a plugin available somewhere on microsoft's website to save as PDFs for word. It's the greatest thing EVER.

Appears to require Windows.

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Matthies
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Re: Probably stupid mass mailing question

Postby Matthies » Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:34 pm

SBL wrote:
disco_barred wrote:
SBL wrote:.pdf is probably credited, but I don't have Acrobat so I just sent everything as .docx. :oops:

Edit: I also tend to start with "To Whom It May Concern." But taking 30 seconds to put the firm's name/address at the top of your cover letter is entirely credited.


You don't need acrobat, there's a plugin available somewhere on microsoft's website to save as PDFs for word. It's the greatest thing EVER.

Appears to require Windows.


Are you using Office 08 for Mac? I know its there in Office 07 for windows, under firl save as, then PDF. I have forgoten how to do it on Iwork. If all else fails scan the doc as a PDf then sednt hat, Docx are hit or mis if they Office 03 or eriler.

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Re: Probably stupid mass mailing question

Postby MrKappus » Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:34 pm

Matthies wrote:
MrKappus wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Are these just sent out in typical envelopes folded three times or do some send them out unfolded in the large brown or manilla envelopes?


Why in the name of all that's holy wouldn't you just attach your docs as PDFs to an email?
Edit (to answer your OP): send 'em in flat envelopes.


Meh, e-mailing is fine to yours, and somewhat my generation. But unfortunately most hiring directors aren't 25 and don't have a face book page and can't text faster then they talk. Snail mail is still preferred at the firms I have worked at, especially with the volume they are getting this days. Likewise I don't want to pay my staff's salary to take your e-mail, print it out (using my ink I can't bill anyone for to spew out all 27 pages of your "short" writing sample), staple it together x 3000 so you can cold call me for a job with your randomly addressed To Hiring Committee cover letter that misspelled my firms name. Impress me by taking the time to put a damn stamp on it and taking it to the post office, or at least remove the BCC so I think maybe your actually targeting just my firm.


Targeting comes across in a well written cover letter that demonstrates research and thoughtful reflection on how you'd fit into the firm and help its clients. It does not come across from whether your app arrived w/ a stamp on it. Also, I'm pushing 30. Not sure what "your" generation is, but I text at 15 words a minute.

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Re: Probably stupid mass mailing question

Postby Matthies » Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:45 pm

MrKappus wrote:
Matthies wrote:
MrKappus wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Are these just sent out in typical envelopes folded three times or do some send them out unfolded in the large brown or manilla envelopes?


Why in the name of all that's holy wouldn't you just attach your docs as PDFs to an email?
Edit (to answer your OP): send 'em in flat envelopes.


Meh, e-mailing is fine to yours, and somewhat my generation. But unfortunately most hiring directors aren't 25 and don't have a face book page and can't text faster then they talk. Snail mail is still preferred at the firms I have worked at, especially with the volume they are getting this days. Likewise I don't want to pay my staff's salary to take your e-mail, print it out (using my ink I can't bill anyone for to spew out all 27 pages of your "short" writing sample), staple it together x 3000 so you can cold call me for a job with your randomly addressed To Hiring Committee cover letter that misspelled my firms name. Impress me by taking the time to put a damn stamp on it and taking it to the post office, or at least remove the BCC so I think maybe your actually targeting just my firm.


Targeting comes across in a well written cover letter that demonstrates research and thoughtful reflection on how you'd fit into the firm and help its clients. It does not come across from whether your app arrived w/ a stamp on it. Also, I'm pushing 30. Not sure what "your" generation is, but I text at 15 words a minute.


I'm pushing 40. Targted your dead right on, but from what I have seen, tht's not what many people do whethey say "targeted mass mailings: to many that seems to mean target a firm or type of firm, write one generict letter and then spam it to every firm like that one you can find. Think about it like this you get two letters in the mail: one adresses to your name with a return adress for seomthing, and one adressed To Resident as 22345 Jones Street. Which one will you open and actuly be intrested in reading? Same with with targetd mass mailing, targeted is adressing the letter/emial to the fitm and explaining why your a good fit, based on your research of thier frim rct. Not Hi I just graduated with a 3.2, I'm intreseted in litigation if you foirm has that, or transactional as well. Please get back to be soon with your offer, kthxbiZ! I've seen far more like that in any one season than the good, well thoughtout/research letter i would call TRAGETED.

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20160810
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Re: Probably stupid mass mailing question

Postby 20160810 » Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:49 pm

Oh man. Evidently my version of Word allows me to save as .pdf without any plug-ins or gimmicks whatsoever, and yet I sent out all my direct mailings with .docx attachments. Let's hope the tech gods smile upon me.

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Matthies
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Re: Probably stupid mass mailing question

Postby Matthies » Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:52 pm

SBL wrote:Oh man. Evidently my version of Word allows me to save as .pdf without any plug-ins or gimmicks whatsoever, and yet I sent out all my direct mailings with .docx attachments. Let's hope the tech gods smile upon me.


I think there a MS webpllaiction that can do it on the clients side, but rather than askinh them to instal and run it, just offer to re-sedn in PDF if they bring it up.

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MrKappus
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Re: Probably stupid mass mailing question

Postby MrKappus » Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:53 pm

@SBL: Vel-kom to the nineties Mr. Bond. Seriously though, 100% of offices have upgraded to Office '07 or beyond, so there shouldn't be any compatibility issues. I just like to send PDFs so the text is unalterable and even dinosaur partners w/ Commodore PC's can open 'em.

@Matthies: all fair points. The stamp might go unnoticed at big shops where underlings open the mail, but at mid/small firms it's probably the right way to go.

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Matthies
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Re: Probably stupid mass mailing question

Postby Matthies » Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:58 pm

MrKappus wrote:@SBL: Vel-kom to the nineties Mr. Bond. Seriously though, 100% of offices have upgraded to Office '07 or beyond, so there shouldn't be any compatibility issues. I just like to send PDFs so the text is unalterable and even dinosaur partners w/ Commodore PC's can open 'em.


All the courts here still use Word Pefeerct, as do some other courts like banrucpky, so eveything submitted online had to be in PDF. With Lexis File and Seve seems to have a problem with, so I just convert to PDF first. Aslo seeing allot more firms going all mac and Iwork too.

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Re: Probably stupid mass mailing question

Postby shmoo597 » Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:40 pm

How many CBs through OCI is enough to not need to do mass mailings? I just read some horror story on xoxo about a dude with 7 CBs who got dinged from all of them. I'm starting to wonder if I should start a mass mailing campaign in my all out/spread as wide a net as possible ITE job search effort.

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Re: Probably stupid mass mailing question

Postby emoticons777 » Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:48 pm

More important: is it too late to be mass mailing things now?!

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Re: Probably stupid mass mailing question

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:19 pm

emoticons777 wrote:More important: is it too late to be mass mailing things now?!

Who knows? Are you worse off now than you would have been if you starting direct mailing a month ago? Almost certainly. There are only X number of SA slots per firm, and they're all doing OCI somewhere and in the process of filling those slots right now, so the earlier you get your name and resume into the mix the better. That said, they're probably not wrapped. My sense is that it's not too late, but it's getting that way FAST. Many firms stop considering new applicants after 9/1, a few post a deadline of 10/1, but most post no deadline. Your best bet is to target firms where you can, as we've been saying ITT, write a cogent cover letter expressing (1.) what about that firm attracts you and (2.) why you have ties to that area. If you do that, you still have probably another week where you might be able to make something happen for yourself. If your plan was to fling your resume at the entire NLJ250 like a chimpanzee flinging its stools at zoo-goers, spare yourself the trouble of sending and them the hassle of throwing them away.

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Re: Probably stupid mass mailing question

Postby paratactical » Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:23 pm

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Last edited by paratactical on Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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