prestige differences among secondary journals?

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shmoo597
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prestige differences among secondary journals?

Postby shmoo597 » Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:24 pm

Obviously law review is the best, but are there ever any discernible differences is prestige among various secondaries? At NYU for example, is the international law journal (which is old, established, etc) considered better then the brand new journal of law and liberty, or are the differences so small that it doesn't matter when it comes to landing a job?

Just finished the NYU transfer write on and kind of kicking myself that I played it safe an didn't rank law review at all... :( I am trying to take solace in the fact that only one person will get it and it probably wouldn't have been me anyways.

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MrKappus
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Re: prestige differences among secondary journals?

Postby MrKappus » Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:31 pm

My understanding is it's LR > 2J your interviewer was on > everything else.

spondee
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Re: prestige differences among secondary journals?

Postby spondee » Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:32 pm

I get the sense that the differences are pretty small. Since most of the secondary journals have a specific focus, it's probably best to prioritize those that you find interesting. However, one possible advantage in choosing Annual Survey, Social Change, or JILP over some of the newer journals is that they've been around long enough that many of their alums now have a voice in hiring at firms.

Edit: ie, what Kappus said, but longer.

midwestls
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Re: prestige differences among secondary journals?

Postby midwestls » Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:56 pm

A veteran headhunter that I trust told me that it really varies widely depending on the quality of the school and the quality of the journal. BUT he did say that getting published - even by a secondary journal - carries weight down the road if you're looking to lateral.

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Re: prestige differences among secondary journals?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:22 pm

its law review or nothing. no one cares about anything else.

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Re: prestige differences among secondary journals?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:52 pm

I don't think that being on a secondary journal is prestigious or an honor. But, it is an important activity/resume filler. Employers want to see that you're doing stuff other than class. If your interviewer did the same activity as you (for example, was on the same secondary journal -- or any other same activity), they may feel some affinity for you. That's clearly good. Obviously being published on a secondary journal has great resume value, but you can't really predict that or plan on it when applying to journals.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: prestige differences among secondary journals?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:24 pm

It depends on the school and the journal. For example at Tulane, the Maritime Journal may be more well regarded than the Law Review. The only reason the law review is significant is because it usually means that the person is in the top 10% of the class.

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Re: prestige differences among secondary journals?

Postby 270910 » Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:17 pm

Only law students know what secondaries are "prestigious." Maybe professors. If one journal at your school is a total joke that MIGHT make a difference, but that's about it. It's literally a "Journal or not" thing, with law review getting a bunch of bonus points, and that's that.

But of course law students are law students, and so everyone will try to rank / sort the journals. But believe me, employers couldn't give two shits. Nobody reads legal journals anyway.

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Re: prestige differences among secondary journals?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:39 pm

Employers couldn't give two shits about your latest article in the International Law and Bullshit Studies Journal.

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DelDad
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Re: prestige differences among secondary journals?

Postby DelDad » Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:47 pm

Employers other than judges or law schools, that is. (And even they don't care about the rank of the journal - just about the publishing.)

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Re: prestige differences among secondary journals?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:47 pm

It doesn't matter. Half of my interviewers didn't even ask me about journal participation. Some of them asked for my transcript up front and spent the remainder of the time talking about classes. GPA>> everything else.

shmoo597
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Re: prestige differences among secondary journals?

Postby shmoo597 » Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:13 pm

I'm curious then...how much of a boost is law review? I get the other journals are mostly crap, but can you expect a substantial boost with law review? Or is even that relatively minimal in the scheme of things (grades, WE, etc).

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Re: prestige differences among secondary journals?

Postby 270910 » Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:31 pm

shmoo597 wrote:I'm curious then...how much of a boost is law review? I get the other journals are mostly crap, but can you expect a substantial boost with law review? Or is even that relatively minimal in the scheme of things (grades, WE, etc).


LR is an enormous boost. It's a bit hard to quantify, as LR types often also have strong grades, but employers and judges definitely like to see LR, and it definitely stands head and shoulders above secondary journals.

yellowjacket2012
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Re: prestige differences among secondary journals?

Postby yellowjacket2012 » Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:35 pm

just join a journal of your area of interest if you can't make law review.
Last edited by yellowjacket2012 on Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Blindmelon
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Re: prestige differences among secondary journals?

Postby Blindmelon » Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:38 pm

shmoo597 wrote:I'm curious then...how much of a boost is law review? I get the other journals are mostly crap, but can you expect a substantial boost with law review? Or is even that relatively minimal in the scheme of things (grades, WE, etc).


From my experience so far and what I've seen/know of people's grades, the boost is significant. Those with top grades will do well even if not on a journal, but from what I've seen it can be a game changer for people not in the top 10%.

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Re: prestige differences among secondary journals?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:40 pm

disco_barred wrote:
shmoo597 wrote:I'm curious then...how much of a boost is law review? I get the other journals are mostly crap, but can you expect a substantial boost with law review? Or is even that relatively minimal in the scheme of things (grades, WE, etc).


LR is an enormous boost. It's a bit hard to quantify, as LR types often also have strong grades, but employers and judges definitely like to see LR, and it definitely stands head and shoulders above secondary journals.


I don't know. I don't think it's as big of a boost as people say, at least for biglaw. Reason I say this is because half the employers I interviewed with at OCI didn't really look at my resume ahead of time, some weren't aware I was on a journal until I mentioned it (not LR, but point still stands that they didn't even really look at my resume), some asked to look at my transcript in the beginning, and then many just asked questions about WE and my interest in practice areas. A lot of people on LR are top 10% so it's hard to gauge what effect LR has on its own, but I think grades trump everything else.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Blindmelon
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Re: prestige differences among secondary journals?

Postby Blindmelon » Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
disco_barred wrote:
shmoo597 wrote:I'm curious then...how much of a boost is law review? I get the other journals are mostly crap, but can you expect a substantial boost with law review? Or is even that relatively minimal in the scheme of things (grades, WE, etc).


LR is an enormous boost. It's a bit hard to quantify, as LR types often also have strong grades, but employers and judges definitely like to see LR, and it definitely stands head and shoulders above secondary journals.


I don't know. I don't think it's as big of a boost as people say, at least for biglaw. Reason I say this is because half the employers I interviewed with at OCI didn't really look at my resume ahead of time, some weren't aware I was on a journal until I mentioned it, and then just asked questions about WE. A lot of people on LR are top 10% so it's hard to gauge what effect LR has on its own, but I think grades trump everything else.


I don't get why this is Anon. Are you speaking from experience, or just making it up?

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Re: prestige differences among secondary journals?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:43 pm

Blindmelon wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
disco_barred wrote:
shmoo597 wrote:I'm curious then...how much of a boost is law review? I get the other journals are mostly crap, but can you expect a substantial boost with law review? Or is even that relatively minimal in the scheme of things (grades, WE, etc).


LR is an enormous boost. It's a bit hard to quantify, as LR types often also have strong grades, but employers and judges definitely like to see LR, and it definitely stands head and shoulders above secondary journals.


I don't know. I don't think it's as big of a boost as people say, at least for biglaw. Reason I say this is because half the employers I interviewed with at OCI didn't really look at my resume ahead of time, some weren't aware I was on a journal until I mentioned it, and then just asked questions about WE. A lot of people on LR are top 10% so it's hard to gauge what effect LR has on its own, but I think grades trump everything else.


I don't get why this is Anon. Are you speaking from experience, or just making it up?


Just went through OCI, so speaking from experience.

270910
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Re: prestige differences among secondary journals?

Postby 270910 » Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:47 pm

LR is definitely a large boost going through OCI. I'm going through OCI, and I know a lot of people on both sides of the LR divide. It rarely changes the category of firm one is "credentialed" for, but people on LR tend to get more attention from the group of firm's they're looking at. It's not even that LR is directly translatable into biglaw skill, it's just very hard for a committee to sort 200 candidates into offer and ding piles. LR becomes a concrete factor, as do grades, rank of school, etc. Work experience, personality, interview, and practice area absolutely come into play. But LR is a very real and very pronounced factor in biglaw hiring, from my observation this year.

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Re: prestige differences among secondary journals?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:49 pm

shmoo597 wrote:I'm curious then...how much of a boost is law review? I get the other journals are mostly crap, but can you expect a substantial boost with law review? Or is even that relatively minimal in the scheme of things (grades, WE, etc).


in my experience, no boost at all. i thought about quitting LR in my post-oci despair.

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Re: prestige differences among secondary journals?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:50 pm

.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Aug 29, 2010 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

270910
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Re: prestige differences among secondary journals?

Postby 270910 » Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
disco_barred wrote:LR is definitely a large boost going through OCI. I'm going through OCI, and I know a lot of people on both sides of the LR divide. It rarely changes the category of firm one is "credentialed" for, but people on LR tend to get more attention from the group of firm's they're looking at. It's not even that LR is directly translatable into biglaw skill, it's just very hard for a committee to sort 200 candidates into offer and ding piles. LR becomes a concrete factor, as do grades, rank of school, etc. Work experience, personality, interview, and practice area absolutely come into play. But LR is a very real and very pronounced factor in biglaw hiring, from my observation this year.


Yeah, I guess I was just surprised at how some interviewers didn't really know my resume at all. Some interviewers ask for a transcript and don't even bother looking at the resume.


There is a 99.9% chance a firm will make its decision to call you back when a committee meets to consider your resume, transcript, and notes/impressions from your interview.

spondee
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Re: prestige differences among secondary journals?

Postby spondee » Sun Aug 29, 2010 5:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
disco_barred wrote:
shmoo597 wrote:I'm curious then...how much of a boost is law review? I get the other journals are mostly crap, but can you expect a substantial boost with law review? Or is even that relatively minimal in the scheme of things (grades, WE, etc).


LR is an enormous boost. It's a bit hard to quantify, as LR types often also have strong grades, but employers and judges definitely like to see LR, and it definitely stands head and shoulders above secondary journals.


I don't know. I don't think it's as big of a boost as people say, at least for biglaw. Reason I say this is because half the employers I interviewed with at OCI didn't really look at my resume ahead of time, some weren't aware I was on a journal until I mentioned it (not LR, but point still stands that they didn't even really look at my resume), some asked to look at my transcript in the beginning, and then many just asked questions about WE and my interest in practice areas. A lot of people on LR are top 10% so it's hard to gauge what effect LR has on its own, but I think grades trump everything else.


Out of 25 screening interviews, I only had one where I brought up LR myself - and that was me trying to save a bad interview. (I failed.) But in many, many others, the interviewer brought it up, even if just to say, "Congratulations on making LR." While it's hard to know if it helped, and if so how much, they definitely noticed it.

And almost all of my interviews were about 75% focused on my resume. I have a very unique background, which most interviewers genuinely wanted to hear about. I think students with a commonplace resume - econ/philosophy degree, paralegal work experience, etc. - are less likely to get questions about it. That does not, however, mean employers don't notice it.

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Re: prestige differences among secondary journals?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 29, 2010 5:43 pm

I would suspect not too many people categorically think of themselves as not unique, at least I haven't met too many people that flatly think of themselves in that way.

I used to think I was unique because of 2 things in my background, until I started actually talking with other law students about their pasts, lol. My law school, however, attracts people who are def. not cookie-cutter straight out of college types, so maybe my perspective is slanted.

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Re: prestige differences among secondary journals?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 29, 2010 6:04 pm

disco_barred wrote:
shmoo597 wrote:I'm curious then...how much of a boost is law review? I get the other journals are mostly crap, but can you expect a substantial boost with law review? Or is even that relatively minimal in the scheme of things (grades, WE, etc).


LR is an enormous boost. It's a bit hard to quantify, as LR types often also have strong grades, but employers and judges definitely like to see LR, and it definitely stands head and shoulders above secondary journals.


That might be an over-exaggeration. Grades trump everything (for biglaw at least). If you have an applicant below median and on law review vs. an applicant in the top 10% but no journal, the top 10% kid without the journal will get the job.




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