Phone Ding

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rynabrius
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Re: Phone Ding

Postby rynabrius » Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:39 pm

Is there any advantage to answering the phone, as opposed to letting it go to voicemail?

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Corsair
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Re: Phone Ding

Postby Corsair » Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:41 pm

..

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Zugzwang
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Re: Phone Ding

Postby Zugzwang » Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:42 pm

rynabrius wrote:Is there any advantage to answering the phone, as opposed to letting it go to voicemail?

Don't answer your phone, don't check your voicemail, if they don't contact you by email in this information age, the firm is outdated and probably expects you to write motions in shorthand and have your secretary type everything.

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apper123
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Re: Phone Ding

Postby apper123 » Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:45 pm

Zugzwang wrote:
rynabrius wrote:Is there any advantage to answering the phone, as opposed to letting it go to voicemail?

Don't answer your phone, don't check your voicemail, if they don't contact you by email in this information age, the firm is outdated and probably expects you to write motions in shorthand and have your secretary type everything.


ok henry17

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Zugzwang
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Re: Phone Ding

Postby Zugzwang » Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:46 pm

I mean, seriously. You're entering the legal profession...you should know that 70% of the time, lawyers do not answer their phone when it rings. They won't care if you don't answer. It's probably better that you let to go to voicemail, so you can prepare ahead of time for whatever they ask of you when you call back.

rynabrius
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Re: Phone Ding

Postby rynabrius » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:00 pm

Zugzwang wrote:I mean, seriously. You're entering the legal profession...you should know that 70% of the time, lawyers do not answer their phone when it rings. They won't care if you don't answer. It's probably better that you let to go to voicemail, so you can prepare ahead of time for whatever they ask of you when you call back.


I'm not sure what level of sarcasm you are trying to convey. In fact, I had the notion that it might be best to let it go to voicemail and compose my thoughts prior to returning the phone-call. If this is simply not done, you of course have the option of enlightening me.

I like your name, by the way; the windmill is my favorite tactic in chess, although I've only seen it in practice in a few blitz games.

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Zugzwang
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Re: Phone Ding

Postby Zugzwang » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:02 pm

rynabrius wrote:
Zugzwang wrote:I mean, seriously. You're entering the legal profession...you should know that 70% of the time, lawyers do not answer their phone when it rings. They won't care if you don't answer. It's probably better that you let to go to voicemail, so you can prepare ahead of time for whatever they ask of you when you call back.


I'm not sure what level of sarcasm you are trying to convey. In fact, I had the notion that it might be best to let it go to voicemail and compose my thoughts prior to returning the phone-call. If this is simply not done, you of course have the option of enlightening me.


I wasn't being sarcastic in that post, if you feel more comfortable calling back at a later time when you calm down from the excitement of getting your first CB or something (or even to check your schedule!), then it's probably a good idea to let it go to voicemail.

Anonymous User
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Re: Phone Ding

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:07 pm

uhh didnt mean this to be anon 1 sec

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apper123
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Re: Phone Ding

Postby apper123 » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:07 pm

lol zugzwangaments?

or am i barking up the wrong tree here

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Zugzwang
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Re: Phone Ding

Postby Zugzwang » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:10 pm

apper123 wrote:lol zugzwangaments?

or am i barking up the wrong tree here

Zugzwang "Tzoog'tzvang" is German for 'compulsion to move'. It is a term from game theory describing a situation where a player would rather pass than make his move.

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Re: Phone Ding

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:12 pm

Pablo Ramirez wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I just had a worse experience. I got dinged 10 minutes into an OCI interview.

An actual rejection? I'm sure many of us had interviews where it was obvious we were getting rejected, but I've never heard of any one being told explicitly during the interview.


Yes, an actual rejection. "We appreciate your interest in the firm, but..."


LOL!!!

It would've been even funnier if the guy just pulled out an actual rejection letter, read it aloud to you, signed it, and handed it over.


Image

That must be some firm to ding you mid-interview.

rynabrius
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Re: Phone Ding

Postby rynabrius » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:16 pm

Thanks Zugzwang.

For the curious, here is a famous demonstration of the zugzwang: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1102400

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Bosque
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Re: Phone Ding

Postby Bosque » Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:20 am

TommyK wrote:
straxen wrote:
TommyK wrote:I think professional courtesy is taken care of and candidates need to grow a little bit thicker skin.


It's not that. It's not that the phone ding makes you feel embarrassed, insulted, etc. It's just a very WTF? moment and does not serve the intended purpose.

I think that phone calls are appropriate for experienced hires, where the recruiting process is less formalized, but inappropriate when hiring directly out of school.


I get ya' - so it's that angst of the 2 seconds between when the phone starts ringing and when you run out of class to answer it, only to have your hopes destroyed that's a problem to you.

I think the intended purpose of a phone call is to let the candidate know that their time was valued, and they were more than just a resume and a warm body. In my mind, then, I think a phone call does serve the intended purpose. It just seems to have a bit of a negative externality here, too.


But see, the problem is I don't think a phone call DOES say we value your time, at least not if the news is bad. A passive form of communication, such as email or mail, says that. This is because it does not interrupt your day to insert itself upon you like a phone call does.

A phone call, when you think about it, is rather rude. Imagine if a person did the same thing, just ran up to you while you were talking, or in class, or asleep, and started repeating the same thing over and over until you acknowledged them. You would probably hit them. We forgive this rudeness because generally we want to hear what the person calling has to say, or at least we need to hear what they have to say urgently. But with something as non urgent and unwelcome as a rejection, we do not forgive the intrusion and a rightly annoyed/frustrated at the gesture, although many cannot put their finger on exactly why.

A passive form of communication, like mail, lets you receive it in your own time. This is much better method of receiving bad or mundane news. I would suggest that this is why people are generally less annoyed by junk mail then they are by telemarketers.

I think the trouble comes from people not really thinking through what each mode of communication says. In person communication is always the best, for both good and bad news. So people tend to think that if they cannot talk to you in person, a phone call is always the next best thing as it is still voice. I say it is not, especially in the age of cell phones.

And with that, I am off to bed. Enough ranting for me.

Anonymous User
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Re: Phone Ding

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:29 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I just had a worse experience. I got dinged 10 minutes into an OCI interview.

An actual rejection? I'm sure many of us had interviews where it was obvious we were getting rejected, but I've never heard of any one being told explicitly during the interview.



Didn't actually happen to me but someone just didn't have the numbers for the firm they were interviewing with, interviewer gets transcript and after looking over it for a minute says, "Well there's no way we are hiring you. What do you want to talk about for 20 minutes?" Great story but a bit depressing all the same haha

Anonymous User
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Re: Phone Ding

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:44 am

I got a call from an interviewer who told me that he was very impressed during our interview, but that the firm's call-back schedule was "filled up" and if something opened by next week, he'd call and let me know. I had no idea what to make of this -- if it was a ding or a maybe, or putting me on some preferred waitlist? Thoughts?

Anonymous User
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Re: Phone Ding

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:42 pm

So I'm still a little confused. AFTER a CB, do most firms still snail mail or email ding, or do they call?




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