anyone just not that worried?

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ResolutePear
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby ResolutePear » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:37 pm

Adjudicator wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Become a nurse, and I'm fucking serious.


Can't argue with this, for anyone who is just looking for a field with great job outlook, good pay, etc., nursing and health care are the place to be.

Some of us just really want to be lawyers, though. But some people would definitely be better off in nursing.


Guys don't do nursing. Unless their balls drop off and roll away.

Guys, if you think you'd be into nursing..look into being a Physician Assistant. In most states, you can prescriptions and the whole 9-yards. Job outlook is great and you can specialize for the gravy train.

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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Two things.

Firstly, there must be a big difference between the t10 and t6. At my t6, you absolutely do need to be top 10% or law review to be getting callbacks. I am neither, and I've gotten my fair share. Pretty much every single interviewer/hospitality suite person/recruiter etc has said that the economy is picking up, they way overcut last year, and they are increasing the summer class sizes. An interviewer from K&E told me they are not only increasing their class size, but hope more people accept then have in prior years, because they sort of want a bigger class to make up for the small one last year. Given that 70% of students got jobs through OCI last year at CLS and NYU, in the t6, I think most people with median or above grades should be fine. Not 2006, but not 2009 either. I doubt it could be THAT much worse in the top 30% from a t10.

Secondly, I'm really sick of this miserable lawyer crap. Talking with so many attorneys in OCI has proven at least one thing: associates at big law can be very happy! Of course only the happy ones stick around, but being happy and being an associate at a big law firm are not at all mutually exclusive. If you are unhappy in big law, its YOU, and NOT the job.


If you read the Columbia thread, a lot of CLS students say that 70% stat is bogus. I think someone posted that the career services office said there were 266 offers or something like that, so in reality 55-60% of CLS students got a job through OCI last year. Which isn't bad for some schools, but this is Columbia we're talking about where a lot of people are paying 200K+ and expecting a return. I'm just mainly angry because the tuition schools charge >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> job prospects. If I were paying what they used to pay ten years ago for law school, I wouldn't be so intent on biglaw or as worried about job prospects because at that point it'd be opportunity cost.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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northwood
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby northwood » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:40 pm

only teachers can understand the amount of work and stress the job entails. The phrase " teaching is the easiest job" or something like that just makes me laugh at the poster who has no idea what they are talking about.

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ResolutePear
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby ResolutePear » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:42 pm

northwood wrote:only teachers can understand the amount of work and stress the job entails. The phrase " teaching is the easiest job" or something like that just makes me laugh at the poster who has no idea what they are talking about.


Forbes and NYT posted reports, teaching is among the top 3-4 least stressful jobs in our society.

Burger in a can
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby Burger in a can » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:43 pm

,
Last edited by Burger in a can on Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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northwood
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby northwood » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:45 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
northwood wrote:only teachers can understand the amount of work and stress the job entails. The phrase " teaching is the easiest job" or something like that just makes me laugh at the poster who has no idea what they are talking about.


Forbes and NYT posted reports, teaching is among the top 3-4 least stressful jobs in our society.



Forbes and NYT posted reports. They didnt do the job.

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ResolutePear
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby ResolutePear » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:45 pm

Burger in a can wrote:
northwood wrote:only teachers can understand the amount of work and stress the job entails. The phrase " teaching is the easiest job" or something like that just makes me laugh at the poster who has no idea what they are talking about.


+10000. I can't compare being a teacher with being a lawyer, because I am not a lawyer. Yet somehow all of these almost-lawyers claim to be able to compare their experience with being a teacher.

What I can say: Teaching is NOT for everybody, although many people assume they will excel and then learn that it was the wrong choice for them. I assume this is also true of the legal profession.


I'll compare the two:
As a teacher, you are institutionalized. You'll *almost always* be an employee.

As a lawyer, you can take an initiative and make your own ceiling. Some people prefer institutionalization, and pay the price for the comfort.

Burger in a can
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby Burger in a can » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:46 pm

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Last edited by Burger in a can on Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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beachbum
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby beachbum » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:46 pm

SBL wrote:I pretty much agree with the OP. Any time people start to complain to me about their law school problems, I tell them to go to Wal Mart and just walk around. Seriously. There are a ton of people there with no money, no education, and no options. They have real problems. We have law school problems. It's immensely helpful to know the difference.


Well... sure. I mean, everything is relative. If those people at Wal-Mart would walk around a third-world shanty town, I'm sure they would feel much better about their position in life.

But with that said, I imagine that having $150k+ in debt and no foreseeable way out is a fairly soul-crushing dilemma.

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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby Burger in a can » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:48 pm

,
Last edited by Burger in a can on Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ResolutePear
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby ResolutePear » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:49 pm

northwood wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
northwood wrote:only teachers can understand the amount of work and stress the job entails. The phrase " teaching is the easiest job" or something like that just makes me laugh at the poster who has no idea what they are talking about.


Forbes and NYT posted reports, teaching is among the top 3-4 least stressful jobs in our society.



Forbes and NYT posted reports. They didnt do the job.

I'll back it up with some CNNMONEY.

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/mon ... mag/3.html

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SteelReserve
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby SteelReserve » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:52 pm

Those are good ideas. I think ADA or PD in a high crime/high population area might be a great fit for you, as you get to put your degree to use as well as spend less time at a desk.

You are correct, most of the attorneys I work with spend a crap ton of time researching and writing briefs. Actually, the biggest time sink appears to be taking depositions. The cool thing about depositions though is that you get to travel often. Some of the associates I worked with over the summer were only at the office about 50-70% of the time. They were always arguing motions or something else in court or away taking depositions. The cool thing that is often overlooked about doing research and briefs is that the time goes by so quickly that it seems that there is absolutely not enough time in the day to get it all done. It's nice to think it's 9:00 a.m. and see that it's really 11:15. This never happened to me at my other jobs. Reading and writing makes the time fly, as evidenced by how quickly law school goes for us.

PI is great. I love being able to advocate for those who were wronged and also make great money in the process. The cases are extremely interesting. The characters are one of a kind. You can learn so much by watching the PI genius partners just nail the crap out of the cases they are working on. You can help set new precedent in your state. I helped an attorney that argued in front of the state supreme court about tort precedent we were trying to get overturned. He was a public speaking genius and made the other side look foolish. It is awesome knowing that that could be me someday.

You also have autonomy with your time, as long as you do your work well. I've never had any autonomy with my time in any of my previous jobs, such as when I was an entry-level accountant. The reason I asked if you went directly from UG is that many people that haven't worked in "corporate America" often talk badly about their experiences at law firms whereas those with work experience seem to like their work, in general from what I've seen. It's a shock to any UG student to see how much time actually goes into working an adult kind of job and how much it sucks to come in day in and day out doing something completely mind numbing. Law, well, PI work at least, is anything but mind numbing.


Those are all great points and good reasons. Really I am quite jealous in that I wish I felt the same way. Do you know if you will be able to work at this firm post-grad? One of the other turn-offs of PI is that it is one of the most saturated areas of law; it is expensive and difficult and time consuming to start a firm yourself and it could take literally a decade to see some decent money; and my concern over the tort reform battle, a battle that unfortunately I think plaintiffs' attorneys will continue to lose in the long run.

See also, the recent Scott Bullock article in the new jersey star ledger where you get to see how lousy it can be to be in your mid-30s and starting a law firm and barely making enough money to put food on the table.

Btw does anyone know if Reasonable_Man still posts around here? I know he ended up sticking with law but he was also considering becoming a cop, specifically, in the NYPD. I believe if I recall what he said, he was working rough hours and frankly making less or equal what a regular patrol officer makes. If you're out there Reasonable_Man, please PM me!

Burger in a can
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby Burger in a can » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:54 pm

,
Last edited by Burger in a can on Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ResolutePear
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby ResolutePear » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:55 pm

Burger in a can wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
Burger in a can wrote:
northwood wrote:only teachers can understand the amount of work and stress the job entails. The phrase " teaching is the easiest job" or something like that just makes me laugh at the poster who has no idea what they are talking about.


+10000. I can't compare being a teacher with being a lawyer, because I am not a lawyer. Yet somehow all of these almost-lawyers claim to be able to compare their experience with being a teacher.

What I can say: Teaching is NOT for everybody, although many people assume they will excel and then learn that it was the wrong choice for them. I assume this is also true of the legal profession.


I'll compare the two:
As a teacher, you are institutionalized. You'll *almost always* be an employee.

As a lawyer, you can take an initiative and make your own ceiling. Some people prefer institutionalization, and pay the price for the comfort.


I guess since you're neither a lawyer nor a teacher, you're qualified to make this comparison?


And I'm guessing you're in a position to discredit it?

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northwood
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby northwood » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:59 pm

and in some states you NEED a master degree to even land a teaching position

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beachbum
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby beachbum » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:59 pm

I think teachers are adequate. Discuss.

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ResolutePear
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby ResolutePear » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:00 pm

Burger in a can wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
northwood wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
Forbes and NYT posted reports, teaching is among the top 3-4 least stressful jobs in our society.



Forbes and NYT posted reports. They didnt do the job.

I'll back it up with some CNNMONEY.

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/mon ... mag/3.html


HAHAHAH Teacher does not equal college professor. To be a professor you need at LEAST a Master's degree, and usually a PhD. Then you need to write a book, make a film, etc. Then, you need to wait for someone to die so you can apply for their old job. People who think the legal field is a competitive job search would immediately slit their wrists if they attempted to get a job as a professor. I absolutely don't refute that being a professor is a cool job though.


A firm partner does not equal a lawyer. To be a partner you need at LEAST 7 years of experience. Then you need to have a book of business, make some rain, etc. Then you need to wait for someone to die so you can apply for their old job. People who think the teaching field is a competitive job search would immediately slit their wrists if they attempted to get a job as a law firm partner. I absolutely don't refute that being a partner is a cool job though.

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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby Burger in a can » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:01 pm

,
Last edited by Burger in a can on Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ResolutePear
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby ResolutePear » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:02 pm

northwood wrote:and in some states you NEED a master degree to even land a teaching position


Always helps to go for a master's degree even if your state doesn't require it. If you work for the public school system, chances are it'll be paid, take 2 years of your time, and give you a 2-5k increase in pay.

For prof's at anywhere but a CC.. they prefer terminal degrees.

Burger in a can
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby Burger in a can » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:04 pm

ResolutePear wrote:For prof's at anywhere but a CC.. they prefer terminal degrees.


Incorrect. Community Colleges prefer them as well. You are overflowing with rampant speculation tonight.

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A'nold
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby A'nold » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:05 pm

SteelReserve wrote:
Those are good ideas. I think ADA or PD in a high crime/high population area might be a great fit for you, as you get to put your degree to use as well as spend less time at a desk.

You are correct, most of the attorneys I work with spend a crap ton of time researching and writing briefs. Actually, the biggest time sink appears to be taking depositions. The cool thing about depositions though is that you get to travel often. Some of the associates I worked with over the summer were only at the office about 50-70% of the time. They were always arguing motions or something else in court or away taking depositions. The cool thing that is often overlooked about doing research and briefs is that the time goes by so quickly that it seems that there is absolutely not enough time in the day to get it all done. It's nice to think it's 9:00 a.m. and see that it's really 11:15. This never happened to me at my other jobs. Reading and writing makes the time fly, as evidenced by how quickly law school goes for us.

PI is great. I love being able to advocate for those who were wronged and also make great money in the process. The cases are extremely interesting. The characters are one of a kind. You can learn so much by watching the PI genius partners just nail the crap out of the cases they are working on. You can help set new precedent in your state. I helped an attorney that argued in front of the state supreme court about tort precedent we were trying to get overturned. He was a public speaking genius and made the other side look foolish. It is awesome knowing that that could be me someday.

You also have autonomy with your time, as long as you do your work well. I've never had any autonomy with my time in any of my previous jobs, such as when I was an entry-level accountant. The reason I asked if you went directly from UG is that many people that haven't worked in "corporate America" often talk badly about their experiences at law firms whereas those with work experience seem to like their work, in general from what I've seen. It's a shock to any UG student to see how much time actually goes into working an adult kind of job and how much it sucks to come in day in and day out doing something completely mind numbing. Law, well, PI work at least, is anything but mind numbing.


Those are all great points and good reasons. Really I am quite jealous in that I wish I felt the same way. Do you know if you will be able to work at this firm post-grad? One of the other turn-offs of PI is that it is one of the most saturated areas of law; it is expensive and difficult and time consuming to start a firm yourself and it could take literally a decade to see some decent money; and my concern over the tort reform battle, a battle that unfortunately I think plaintiffs' attorneys will continue to lose in the long run.

See also, the recent Scott Bullock article in the new jersey star ledger where you get to see how lousy it can be to be in your mid-30s and starting a law firm and barely making enough money to put food on the table.

Btw does anyone know if Reasonable_Man still posts around here? I know he ended up sticking with law but he was also considering becoming a cop, specifically, in the NYPD. I believe if I recall what he said, he was working rough hours and frankly making less or equal what a regular patrol officer makes. If you're out there Reasonable_Man, please PM me!


Tort reform SUCKS, and yes I am scared that it will ruin a good thing. I know that if the average voter was actually informed, they would never vote for tort reform in a million years. BUT, the insurance companies have the money to manipulate and people love to hear lies about how hurting greedy lawyers will lower their auto insurance by 7 dollars a month. Ugh.

Anyway, I don't think starting your own firm is as tenous and you do. I am planning on using the government IBR while the going is tough. All you need is some money to weather the storm and provide for your family b/c money will be coming in, even if only fender benders at first. You can use a virtual office to start out if you don't want to put an extra 50k or so into office space. Then, once you start making $$, you can find a modest office and keep building up your practice.

The cool thing about owning your own P.I. firm is that it only takes one case to set you up for your career. One 1.5 million dollar settlement will allow you to spend the $$ necessary for advertising and office space and maybe hiring a few grunt attorneys from the local "ttt." The competition is fierce, but look at it this way as well: when you open up the phone book and see the hundreds of PI firms advertising, just note that they are all co-existing, meaning that there is enough business for everybody, meaning that PI law is a very stable section of the legal industry.

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ResolutePear
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby ResolutePear » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:07 pm

Burger in a can wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:For prof's at anywhere but a CC.. they prefer terminal degrees.


Incorrect. Community Colleges prefer them as well. You are overflowing with rampant speculation tonight.


I can say the same for you. You can can get on a tenure track at a CC with a Masters at a CC, whereas it's almost unheard of at the University level.

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northwood
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby northwood » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:09 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
northwood wrote:and in some states you NEED a master degree to even land a teaching position


Always helps to go for a master's degree even if your state doesn't require it. If you work for the public school system, chances are it'll be paid, take 2 years of your time, and give you a 2-5k increase in pay.

WRONG!!!!!!!
The days of states/ districts paying for your master degree has gone. They want that degree BEFORE they hire you,

Burger in a can
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby Burger in a can » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:14 pm

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Last edited by Burger in a can on Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Burger in a can
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby Burger in a can » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:16 pm

,
Last edited by Burger in a can on Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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