anyone just not that worried?

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Burger in a can
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby Burger in a can » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:17 pm

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Last edited by Burger in a can on Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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A'nold
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby A'nold » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:19 pm

SteelReserve wrote:
Sounds like you didn't want to actually be a lawyer- just earn what you thought was a lawyer's salary. That obviously was the wrong reason to go to law school, but it doesn't mean that nobody else should go. Some people actually want to be lawyers, even at $35k/year and with 30+ years of debt.


That is fair and you are absolutely right. There are doubtless people that are great fits for law, even if it means the low salaries that dominate the market these days.

And yes I did hope to earn a decent salary, something along the lines of 70-80k that my school listed as the median. And yes I thought that being top 10% and LR with a variety of legal experience throughout school would mean I would actually have some bites in employment asides from clerkships.

But the rewarding government jobs start at 30-40k in most states, and the more important part is that in many states those jobs don't even have open positions for anyone. I agree that if you have passion for the law it is worth it, but for me, I find no enjoyment in sitting at the computer screen pushing paper and contemplating whether R. 52-973C(d) can apply if the defense filed a motion seven days ago and not 15 days ....

So I ask, what is it that makes you certain you will enjoy being a lawyer at a low salary?


30-40k sounds very low. Even in Idaho they start mid 40's to 60k in Boise.

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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:19 pm

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Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ResolutePear
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby ResolutePear » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:20 pm

Burger in a can wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Teachers get 3 months vacation a year. teacher >>>>>>>> lawyer


Sigh. This site is so frustrating sometimes.


You know what's better than a teacher or a lawyer?

A law professor!

Burger in a can
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby Burger in a can » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:22 pm

,
Last edited by Burger in a can on Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:22 pm

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Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:23 pm

Burger in a can wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
No, but I have friends who are teachers. They seem happy, and besides dealing with some snotty brats, the work seems a lot more relaxing. Teacher >>> lawyer. Savor your job.


Ok, anonymous troll on the internet, I will take your advice and abandon my quest for a JD. Thank you for opening my eyes and changing my life. I feel so free.


Fwiw, I go to a t-10, have top 1/3 grades and am hating the OCI process right now. If your goal is a high paying job or whatever, forget law, unless you go to HYS. And if you don't care how much you get paid, there are way more JDs, with good credentials out there, than there are law jobs, both low paying and high paying. A lot of gov work is harder to get than biglaw because you need a certain background, demonstrate interest, and because there are so many unemployed JDs. I would at least stick with teaching for a few years so the economy can improve a lot more than it did since last year.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ResolutePear
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby ResolutePear » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Burger in a can wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Burger in a can wrote:Sigh. This site is so frustrating sometimes.


A teacher has a much higher QOL than a lawyer.


Have you been a teacher? And why so anonymous?


Because I'm going through OCI right now.

No, but I have friends who are teachers. They seem happy, and besides dealing with some snotty brats, the work seems a lot more relaxing. Teacher >>> lawyer. Savor your job.


I have a professor with a BioChem UG + English(Or Creative Writing?) Masters thinking about going into law. He has a friend who went to law school and makes pretty decent. It was a T50.

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A'nold
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby A'nold » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Burger in a can wrote:
SteelReserve wrote:
Sounds like you didn't want to actually be a lawyer- just earn what you thought was a lawyer's salary. That obviously was the wrong reason to go to law school, but it doesn't mean that nobody else should go. Some people actually want to be lawyers, even at $35k/year and with 30+ years of debt.


That is fair and you are absolutely right. There are doubtless people that are great fits for law, even if it means the low salaries that dominate the market these days.

And yes I did hope to earn a decent salary, something along the lines of 70-80k that my school listed as the median. And yes I thought that being top 10% and LR with a variety of legal experience throughout school would mean I would actually have some bites in employment asides from clerkships.

But the rewarding government jobs start at 30-40k in most states, and the more important part is that in many states those jobs don't even have open positions for anyone. I agree that if you have passion for the law it is worth it, but for me, I find no enjoyment in sitting at the computer screen pushing paper and contemplating whether R. 52-973C(d) can apply if the defense filed a motion seven days ago and not 15 days ....

So I ask, what is it that makes you certain you will enjoy being a lawyer at a low salary?


I'm not certain of this and never claimed to be. I was saying that it seemed like you didn't want to be a lawyer. When I hear people give advice here like "you should just be an engineer, or a doctor, or a fireman, etc." I know that advice is coming from people who didn't want to be lawyers.

Also, I was a teacher. 30-40k sounds pretty great to me.


Teachers get 3 months vacation a year. Teacher >>>>>>>> lawyer, I'm pretty convinced of this by now. And honestly, with my ugrad degree I could have landed an 8-5 55k paying job. It just sucks that law schools charge insane tuition, offer no job search advice outside of OCI, and so many t-14 grads are still struggling, even those who did well.

Schools should at least adjust their inflated tuition to reflect the shitty job prospects.


:roll: :roll:

I am so sick of hearing this kind of stuff. What was your UG degree? If a typical BA, NO, you would not have been able to land a 55k, 9-5 job unless there were special circumstances. Do you know how long the typical BA has to work to get up to 55k? That's upper level management in most average companies.

Not to mention, "shitty job prospects" is definitely relative. A 10-12 dollar an hour temp job with your tiny pink BA is "pretty shitty" IMO.

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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Burger in a can wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
No, but I have friends who are teachers. They seem happy, and besides dealing with some snotty brats, the work seems a lot more relaxing. Teacher >>> lawyer. Savor your job.


Ok, anonymous troll on the internet, I will take your advice and abandon my quest for a JD. Thank you for opening my eyes and changing my life. I feel so free.


Fwiw, I go to a t-10, have top 1/3 grades and am hating the OCI process right now. If your goal is a high paying job or whatever, forget law, unless you go to HYS. And if you don't care how much you get paid, there are way more JDs, with good credentials out there, than there are law jobs, both low paying and high paying.


+1

It's still pretty much a crapshoot whether you'll get a 2L summer job unless you're on LR, in the top 10% or you have some crazy work experience. Ppl straight out of undergrad are almost uniformly getting pwnd at my t10.

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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:26 pm

A'nold wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Teachers get 3 months vacation a year. Teacher >>>>>>>> lawyer, I'm pretty convinced of this by now. And honestly, with my ugrad degree I could have landed an 8-5 55k paying job. It just sucks that law schools charge insane tuition, offer no job search advice outside of OCI, and so many t-14 grads are still struggling, even those who did well.

Schools should at least adjust their inflated tuition to reflect the shitty job prospects.


:roll: :roll:

I am so sick of hearing this kind of stuff. What was your UG degree? If a typical BA, NO, you would not have been able to land a 55k, 9-5 job unless there were special circumstances. Do you know how long the typical BA has to work to get up to 55k? That's upper level management in most average companies.

Not to mention, "shitty job prospects" is definitely relative. A 10-12 dollar an hour temp job with your tiny pink BA is "pretty shitty" IMO.


I had a business degree from a top undergrad. Most people in my major went into analyst work or i-banking. You can also argue I have the same job prospects except with a lot more debt. However, now that I am out of ugrad, I don't have the option of interviewing with the Big 4 and other consulting companies on campus.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Burger in a can
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby Burger in a can » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:28 pm

,
Last edited by Burger in a can on Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:29 pm

.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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A'nold
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby A'nold » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
A'nold wrote:
SteelReserve wrote:
Sounds like you didn't want to actually be a lawyer- just earn what you thought was a lawyer's salary. That obviously was the wrong reason to go to law school, but it doesn't mean that nobody else should go. Some people actually want to be lawyers, even at $35k/year and with 30+ years of debt.


That is fair and you are absolutely right. There are doubtless people that are great fits for law, even if it means the low salaries that dominate the market these days.

And yes I did hope to earn a decent salary, something along the lines of 70-80k that my school listed as the median. And yes I thought that being top 10% and LR with a variety of legal experience throughout school would mean I would actually have some bites in employment asides from clerkships.

But the rewarding government jobs start at 30-40k in most states, and the more important part is that in many states those jobs don't even have open positions for anyone. I agree that if you have passion for the law it is worth it, but for me, I find no enjoyment in sitting at the computer screen pushing paper and contemplating whether R. 52-973C(d) can apply if the defense filed a motion seven days ago and not 15 days ....

So I ask, what is it that makes you certain you will enjoy being a lawyer at a low salary?


30-40k sounds very low. Even in Idaho they start mid 40's to 60k in Boise.


In some parts of California, aka very high COL, the pay starts out in the low 40s. That basically means you have to room with 4 people in a 2 bedroom condo.


In SOME parts of CA, ADA's and the like make like 70k.......what's your point?

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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Burger in a can wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
No, but I have friends who are teachers. They seem happy, and besides dealing with some snotty brats, the work seems a lot more relaxing. Teacher >>> lawyer. Savor your job.


Ok, anonymous troll on the internet, I will take your advice and abandon my quest for a JD. Thank you for opening my eyes and changing my life. I feel so free.


Fwiw, I go to a t-10, have top 1/3 grades and am hating the OCI process right now. If your goal is a high paying job or whatever, forget law, unless you go to HYS. And if you don't care how much you get paid, there are way more JDs, with good credentials out there, than there are law jobs, both low paying and high paying.


+1

It's still pretty much a crapshoot whether you'll get a 2L summer job unless you're on LR, in the top 10% or you have some crazy work experience. Ppl straight out of undergrad are almost uniformly getting pwnd at my t10.


TCR. I should have worked as an i-banker or whatever before lawl school.

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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:32 pm

A'nold wrote:In SOME parts of CA, ADA's and the like make like 70k.......what's your point?


ADAs? That's not entry level. The few gov jobs that even consider people with little experience, aka entry level jobs, pay 40k starting.

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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby 20160810 » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:32 pm

I pretty much agree with the OP. Any time people start to complain to me about their law school problems, I tell them to go to Wal Mart and just walk around. Seriously. There are a ton of people there with no money, no education, and no options. They have real problems. We have law school problems. It's immensely helpful to know the difference.

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A'nold
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby A'nold » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:33 pm

Burger in a can wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Burger in a can wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
No, but I have friends who are teachers. They seem happy, and besides dealing with some snotty brats, the work seems a lot more relaxing. Teacher >>> lawyer. Savor your job.


Ok, anonymous troll on the internet, I will take your advice and abandon my quest for a JD. Thank you for opening my eyes and changing my life. I feel so free.


Fwiw, I go to a t-10, have top 1/3 grades and am hating the OCI process right now. If your goal is a high paying job or whatever, forget law, unless you go to HYS. And if you don't care how much you get paid, there are way more JDs, with good credentials out there, than there are law jobs, both low paying and high paying. A lot of gov work is harder to get than biglaw because you need a certain background, demonstrate interest, and because there are so many unemployed JDs. I would at least stick with teaching for a few years so the economy can improve a lot more than it did since last year.


<--- laid off from teaching job in 2008. Worked in gas station until a month ago to help pay off grad school debt. Not shocked by, or scared of anything you are saying.


Wow, I love when real life people post stuff about, I don't know, the REAL WORLD? But we should totally listen to the privileged brat that went straight to ls (a t10!) that tells us to be a teacher or a nurse. :roll:

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ResolutePear
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby ResolutePear » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:33 pm

A'nold wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Burger in a can wrote:
SteelReserve wrote:
That is fair and you are absolutely right. There are doubtless people that are great fits for law, even if it means the low salaries that dominate the market these days.

And yes I did hope to earn a decent salary, something along the lines of 70-80k that my school listed as the median. And yes I thought that being top 10% and LR with a variety of legal experience throughout school would mean I would actually have some bites in employment asides from clerkships.

But the rewarding government jobs start at 30-40k in most states, and the more important part is that in many states those jobs don't even have open positions for anyone. I agree that if you have passion for the law it is worth it, but for me, I find no enjoyment in sitting at the computer screen pushing paper and contemplating whether R. 52-973C(d) can apply if the defense filed a motion seven days ago and not 15 days ....

So I ask, what is it that makes you certain you will enjoy being a lawyer at a low salary?


I'm not certain of this and never claimed to be. I was saying that it seemed like you didn't want to be a lawyer. When I hear people give advice here like "you should just be an engineer, or a doctor, or a fireman, etc." I know that advice is coming from people who didn't want to be lawyers.

Also, I was a teacher. 30-40k sounds pretty great to me.


Teachers get 3 months vacation a year. Teacher >>>>>>>> lawyer, I'm pretty convinced of this by now. And honestly, with my ugrad degree I could have landed an 8-5 55k paying job. It just sucks that law schools charge insane tuition, offer no job search advice outside of OCI, and so many t-14 grads are still struggling, even those who did well.

Schools should at least adjust their inflated tuition to reflect the shitty job prospects.


:roll: :roll:

I am so sick of hearing this kind of stuff. What was your UG degree? If a typical BA, NO, you would not have been able to land a 55k, 9-5 job unless there were special circumstances. Do you know how long the typical BA has to work to get up to 55k? That's upper level management in most average companies.

Not to mention, "shitty job prospects" is definitely relative. A 10-12 dollar an hour temp job with your tiny pink BA is "pretty shitty" IMO.


Economics is on the up-and-up. This includes the BA and BS programs - I would imagine at ~30-40 credits, it makes it a lucrative program to double major with another BA(Poli. Sci, INR) or even minor in an engineering/do premed majors.

From my point of view, I could care less if it's a BA or BS for entry level. By the time somebody's ready to move up the ladder, they would fall under "or equiv. experience".

Though, if you didn't diversify and landed below median humanities.. yep, pretty grim there. That I can definitely agree with.

If you get out of UG and think to yourself: "Hm, what skills have I gained that people would pay me for?", you damned well better have a quick and good answer ITE.

But if you think JD prospects are bleak, even a HNS MBA doesn't wouldn't do much good for you unless you're #1 IRL.

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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:34 pm

.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Burger in a can
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby Burger in a can » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:]

Become a nurse, and I'm fucking serious. Getting more into debt for shady job prospects is not the right answer.


I appreciate your concern, but I don't want to be a nurse. Thanks anyway!

PS: State school + full scholarship=I'm ok thanks.

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Adjudicator
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby Adjudicator » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Become a nurse, and I'm fucking serious.


Can't argue with this, for anyone who is just looking for a field with great job outlook, good pay, etc., nursing and health care are the place to be.

Some of us just really want to be lawyers, though. But some people would definitely be better off in nursing.

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ResolutePear
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby ResolutePear » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:34 pm

SBL wrote:I pretty much agree with the OP. Any time people start to complain to me about their law school problems, I tell them to go to Wal Mart and just walk around. Seriously. There are a ton of people there with no money, no education, and no options. They have real problems. We have law school problems. It's immensely helpful to know the difference.


How will I afford the yacht club with 200k in loans that I'll have paid off in 10 years? HOW?!

Anonymous User
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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Burger in a can wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
No, but I have friends who are teachers. They seem happy, and besides dealing with some snotty brats, the work seems a lot more relaxing. Teacher >>> lawyer. Savor your job.


Ok, anonymous troll on the internet, I will take your advice and abandon my quest for a JD. Thank you for opening my eyes and changing my life. I feel so free.


Fwiw, I go to a t-10, have top 1/3 grades and am hating the OCI process right now. If your goal is a high paying job or whatever, forget law, unless you go to HYS. And if you don't care how much you get paid, there are way more JDs, with good credentials out there, than there are law jobs, both low paying and high paying.


+1

It's still pretty much a crapshoot whether you'll get a 2L summer job unless you're on LR, in the top 10% or you have some crazy work experience. Ppl straight out of undergrad are almost uniformly getting pwnd at my t10.


Two things.

Firstly, there must be a big difference between the t10 and t6. At my t6, you absolutely do need to be top 10% or law review to be getting callbacks. I am neither, and I've gotten my fair share. Pretty much every single interviewer/hospitality suite person/recruiter etc has said that the economy is picking up, they way overcut last year, and they are increasing the summer class sizes. An interviewer from K&E told me they are not only increasing their class size, but hope more people accept then have in prior years, because they sort of want a bigger class to make up for the small one last year. Given that 70% of students got jobs through OCI last year at CLS and NYU, in the t6, I think most people with median or above grades should be fine. Not 2006, but not 2009 either. I doubt it could be THAT much worse in the top 30% from a t10.

Secondly, I'm really sick of this miserable lawyer crap. Talking with so many attorneys in OCI has proven at least one thing: associates at big law can be very happy! Of course only the happy ones stick around, but being happy and being an associate at a big law firm are not at all mutually exclusive. If you are unhappy in big law, its YOU, and NOT the job.

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Re: anyone just not that worried?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:35 pm

A'nold wrote:
Wow, I love when real life people post stuff about, I don't know, the REAL WORLD? But we should totally listen to the privileged brat that went straight to ls (a t10!) that tells us to be a teacher or a nurse. :roll:


Privileged? I pay for LS on my own...




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