anyone just not that worried? Forum
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Re: anyone just not that worried?
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Last edited by Burger in a can on Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- A'nold
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Re: anyone just not that worried?
30-40k sounds very low. Even in Idaho they start mid 40's to 60k in Boise.SteelReserve wrote:That is fair and you are absolutely right. There are doubtless people that are great fits for law, even if it means the low salaries that dominate the market these days.Sounds like you didn't want to actually be a lawyer- just earn what you thought was a lawyer's salary. That obviously was the wrong reason to go to law school, but it doesn't mean that nobody else should go. Some people actually want to be lawyers, even at $35k/year and with 30+ years of debt.
And yes I did hope to earn a decent salary, something along the lines of 70-80k that my school listed as the median. And yes I thought that being top 10% and LR with a variety of legal experience throughout school would mean I would actually have some bites in employment asides from clerkships.
But the rewarding government jobs start at 30-40k in most states, and the more important part is that in many states those jobs don't even have open positions for anyone. I agree that if you have passion for the law it is worth it, but for me, I find no enjoyment in sitting at the computer screen pushing paper and contemplating whether R. 52-973C(d) can apply if the defense filed a motion seven days ago and not 15 days ....
So I ask, what is it that makes you certain you will enjoy being a lawyer at a low salary?
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Re: anyone just not that worried?
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Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- ResolutePear
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Re: anyone just not that worried?
You know what's better than a teacher or a lawyer?Burger in a can wrote:Sigh. This site is so frustrating sometimes.Anonymous User wrote:
Teachers get 3 months vacation a year. teacher >>>>>>>> lawyer
A law professor!
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Re: anyone just not that worried?
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Re: anyone just not that worried?
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Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: anyone just not that worried?
Fwiw, I go to a t-10, have top 1/3 grades and am hating the OCI process right now. If your goal is a high paying job or whatever, forget law, unless you go to HYS. And if you don't care how much you get paid, there are way more JDs, with good credentials out there, than there are law jobs, both low paying and high paying. A lot of gov work is harder to get than biglaw because you need a certain background, demonstrate interest, and because there are so many unemployed JDs. I would at least stick with teaching for a few years so the economy can improve a lot more than it did since last year.Burger in a can wrote:Ok, anonymous troll on the internet, I will take your advice and abandon my quest for a JD. Thank you for opening my eyes and changing my life. I feel so free.Anonymous User wrote:
No, but I have friends who are teachers. They seem happy, and besides dealing with some snotty brats, the work seems a lot more relaxing. Teacher >>> lawyer. Savor your job.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- ResolutePear
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Re: anyone just not that worried?
I have a professor with a BioChem UG + English(Or Creative Writing?) Masters thinking about going into law. He has a friend who went to law school and makes pretty decent. It was a T50.Anonymous User wrote:Because I'm going through OCI right now.Burger in a can wrote:Have you been a teacher? And why so anonymous?Anonymous User wrote:A teacher has a much higher QOL than a lawyer.Burger in a can wrote: Sigh. This site is so frustrating sometimes.
No, but I have friends who are teachers. They seem happy, and besides dealing with some snotty brats, the work seems a lot more relaxing. Teacher >>> lawyer. Savor your job.
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Re: anyone just not that worried?
Anonymous User wrote:Teachers get 3 months vacation a year. Teacher >>>>>>>> lawyer, I'm pretty convinced of this by now. And honestly, with my ugrad degree I could have landed an 8-5 55k paying job. It just sucks that law schools charge insane tuition, offer no job search advice outside of OCI, and so many t-14 grads are still struggling, even those who did well.Burger in a can wrote:I'm not certain of this and never claimed to be. I was saying that it seemed like you didn't want to be a lawyer. When I hear people give advice here like "you should just be an engineer, or a doctor, or a fireman, etc." I know that advice is coming from people who didn't want to be lawyers.SteelReserve wrote:That is fair and you are absolutely right. There are doubtless people that are great fits for law, even if it means the low salaries that dominate the market these days.Sounds like you didn't want to actually be a lawyer- just earn what you thought was a lawyer's salary. That obviously was the wrong reason to go to law school, but it doesn't mean that nobody else should go. Some people actually want to be lawyers, even at $35k/year and with 30+ years of debt.
And yes I did hope to earn a decent salary, something along the lines of 70-80k that my school listed as the median. And yes I thought that being top 10% and LR with a variety of legal experience throughout school would mean I would actually have some bites in employment asides from clerkships.
But the rewarding government jobs start at 30-40k in most states, and the more important part is that in many states those jobs don't even have open positions for anyone. I agree that if you have passion for the law it is worth it, but for me, I find no enjoyment in sitting at the computer screen pushing paper and contemplating whether R. 52-973C(d) can apply if the defense filed a motion seven days ago and not 15 days ....
So I ask, what is it that makes you certain you will enjoy being a lawyer at a low salary?
Also, I was a teacher. 30-40k sounds pretty great to me.
Schools should at least adjust their inflated tuition to reflect the shitty job prospects.
I am so sick of hearing this kind of stuff. What was your UG degree? If a typical BA, NO, you would not have been able to land a 55k, 9-5 job unless there were special circumstances. Do you know how long the typical BA has to work to get up to 55k? That's upper level management in most average companies.
Not to mention, "shitty job prospects" is definitely relative. A 10-12 dollar an hour temp job with your tiny pink BA is "pretty shitty" IMO.
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Re: anyone just not that worried?
+1Anonymous User wrote:Fwiw, I go to a t-10, have top 1/3 grades and am hating the OCI process right now. If your goal is a high paying job or whatever, forget law, unless you go to HYS. And if you don't care how much you get paid, there are way more JDs, with good credentials out there, than there are law jobs, both low paying and high paying.Burger in a can wrote:Ok, anonymous troll on the internet, I will take your advice and abandon my quest for a JD. Thank you for opening my eyes and changing my life. I feel so free.Anonymous User wrote:
No, but I have friends who are teachers. They seem happy, and besides dealing with some snotty brats, the work seems a lot more relaxing. Teacher >>> lawyer. Savor your job.
It's still pretty much a crapshoot whether you'll get a 2L summer job unless you're on LR, in the top 10% or you have some crazy work experience. Ppl straight out of undergrad are almost uniformly getting pwnd at my t10.
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Re: anyone just not that worried?
I had a business degree from a top undergrad. Most people in my major went into analyst work or i-banking. You can also argue I have the same job prospects except with a lot more debt. However, now that I am out of ugrad, I don't have the option of interviewing with the Big 4 and other consulting companies on campus.A'nold wrote:Anonymous User wrote: Teachers get 3 months vacation a year. Teacher >>>>>>>> lawyer, I'm pretty convinced of this by now. And honestly, with my ugrad degree I could have landed an 8-5 55k paying job. It just sucks that law schools charge insane tuition, offer no job search advice outside of OCI, and so many t-14 grads are still struggling, even those who did well.
Schools should at least adjust their inflated tuition to reflect the shitty job prospects.
I am so sick of hearing this kind of stuff. What was your UG degree? If a typical BA, NO, you would not have been able to land a 55k, 9-5 job unless there were special circumstances. Do you know how long the typical BA has to work to get up to 55k? That's upper level management in most average companies.
Not to mention, "shitty job prospects" is definitely relative. A 10-12 dollar an hour temp job with your tiny pink BA is "pretty shitty" IMO.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: anyone just not that worried?
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Last edited by Burger in a can on Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: anyone just not that worried?
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Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- A'nold
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Re: anyone just not that worried?
In SOME parts of CA, ADA's and the like make like 70k.......what's your point?Anonymous User wrote:In some parts of California, aka very high COL, the pay starts out in the low 40s. That basically means you have to room with 4 people in a 2 bedroom condo.A'nold wrote:30-40k sounds very low. Even in Idaho they start mid 40's to 60k in Boise.SteelReserve wrote:That is fair and you are absolutely right. There are doubtless people that are great fits for law, even if it means the low salaries that dominate the market these days.Sounds like you didn't want to actually be a lawyer- just earn what you thought was a lawyer's salary. That obviously was the wrong reason to go to law school, but it doesn't mean that nobody else should go. Some people actually want to be lawyers, even at $35k/year and with 30+ years of debt.
And yes I did hope to earn a decent salary, something along the lines of 70-80k that my school listed as the median. And yes I thought that being top 10% and LR with a variety of legal experience throughout school would mean I would actually have some bites in employment asides from clerkships.
But the rewarding government jobs start at 30-40k in most states, and the more important part is that in many states those jobs don't even have open positions for anyone. I agree that if you have passion for the law it is worth it, but for me, I find no enjoyment in sitting at the computer screen pushing paper and contemplating whether R. 52-973C(d) can apply if the defense filed a motion seven days ago and not 15 days ....
So I ask, what is it that makes you certain you will enjoy being a lawyer at a low salary?
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Re: anyone just not that worried?
TCR. I should have worked as an i-banker or whatever before lawl school.Anonymous User wrote:+1Anonymous User wrote:Fwiw, I go to a t-10, have top 1/3 grades and am hating the OCI process right now. If your goal is a high paying job or whatever, forget law, unless you go to HYS. And if you don't care how much you get paid, there are way more JDs, with good credentials out there, than there are law jobs, both low paying and high paying.Burger in a can wrote:Ok, anonymous troll on the internet, I will take your advice and abandon my quest for a JD. Thank you for opening my eyes and changing my life. I feel so free.Anonymous User wrote:
No, but I have friends who are teachers. They seem happy, and besides dealing with some snotty brats, the work seems a lot more relaxing. Teacher >>> lawyer. Savor your job.
It's still pretty much a crapshoot whether you'll get a 2L summer job unless you're on LR, in the top 10% or you have some crazy work experience. Ppl straight out of undergrad are almost uniformly getting pwnd at my t10.
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Re: anyone just not that worried?
ADAs? That's not entry level. The few gov jobs that even consider people with little experience, aka entry level jobs, pay 40k starting.A'nold wrote: In SOME parts of CA, ADA's and the like make like 70k.......what's your point?
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Re: anyone just not that worried?
I pretty much agree with the OP. Any time people start to complain to me about their law school problems, I tell them to go to Wal Mart and just walk around. Seriously. There are a ton of people there with no money, no education, and no options. They have real problems. We have law school problems. It's immensely helpful to know the difference.
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- A'nold
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Re: anyone just not that worried?
Wow, I love when real life people post stuff about, I don't know, the REAL WORLD? But we should totally listen to the privileged brat that went straight to ls (a t10!) that tells us to be a teacher or a nurse.Burger in a can wrote:<--- laid off from teaching job in 2008. Worked in gas station until a month ago to help pay off grad school debt. Not shocked by, or scared of anything you are saying.Anonymous User wrote:Fwiw, I go to a t-10, have top 1/3 grades and am hating the OCI process right now. If your goal is a high paying job or whatever, forget law, unless you go to HYS. And if you don't care how much you get paid, there are way more JDs, with good credentials out there, than there are law jobs, both low paying and high paying. A lot of gov work is harder to get than biglaw because you need a certain background, demonstrate interest, and because there are so many unemployed JDs. I would at least stick with teaching for a few years so the economy can improve a lot more than it did since last year.Burger in a can wrote:Ok, anonymous troll on the internet, I will take your advice and abandon my quest for a JD. Thank you for opening my eyes and changing my life. I feel so free.Anonymous User wrote:
No, but I have friends who are teachers. They seem happy, and besides dealing with some snotty brats, the work seems a lot more relaxing. Teacher >>> lawyer. Savor your job.
- ResolutePear
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Re: anyone just not that worried?
Economics is on the up-and-up. This includes the BA and BS programs - I would imagine at ~30-40 credits, it makes it a lucrative program to double major with another BA(Poli. Sci, INR) or even minor in an engineering/do premed majors.A'nold wrote:Anonymous User wrote:Teachers get 3 months vacation a year. Teacher >>>>>>>> lawyer, I'm pretty convinced of this by now. And honestly, with my ugrad degree I could have landed an 8-5 55k paying job. It just sucks that law schools charge insane tuition, offer no job search advice outside of OCI, and so many t-14 grads are still struggling, even those who did well.Burger in a can wrote:I'm not certain of this and never claimed to be. I was saying that it seemed like you didn't want to be a lawyer. When I hear people give advice here like "you should just be an engineer, or a doctor, or a fireman, etc." I know that advice is coming from people who didn't want to be lawyers.SteelReserve wrote:
That is fair and you are absolutely right. There are doubtless people that are great fits for law, even if it means the low salaries that dominate the market these days.
And yes I did hope to earn a decent salary, something along the lines of 70-80k that my school listed as the median. And yes I thought that being top 10% and LR with a variety of legal experience throughout school would mean I would actually have some bites in employment asides from clerkships.
But the rewarding government jobs start at 30-40k in most states, and the more important part is that in many states those jobs don't even have open positions for anyone. I agree that if you have passion for the law it is worth it, but for me, I find no enjoyment in sitting at the computer screen pushing paper and contemplating whether R. 52-973C(d) can apply if the defense filed a motion seven days ago and not 15 days ....
So I ask, what is it that makes you certain you will enjoy being a lawyer at a low salary?
Also, I was a teacher. 30-40k sounds pretty great to me.
Schools should at least adjust their inflated tuition to reflect the shitty job prospects.
I am so sick of hearing this kind of stuff. What was your UG degree? If a typical BA, NO, you would not have been able to land a 55k, 9-5 job unless there were special circumstances. Do you know how long the typical BA has to work to get up to 55k? That's upper level management in most average companies.
Not to mention, "shitty job prospects" is definitely relative. A 10-12 dollar an hour temp job with your tiny pink BA is "pretty shitty" IMO.
From my point of view, I could care less if it's a BA or BS for entry level. By the time somebody's ready to move up the ladder, they would fall under "or equiv. experience".
Though, if you didn't diversify and landed below median humanities.. yep, pretty grim there. That I can definitely agree with.
If you get out of UG and think to yourself: "Hm, what skills have I gained that people would pay me for?", you damned well better have a quick and good answer ITE.
But if you think JD prospects are bleak, even a HNS MBA doesn't wouldn't do much good for you unless you're #1 IRL.
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Re: anyone just not that worried?
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Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: anyone just not that worried?
I appreciate your concern, but I don't want to be a nurse. Thanks anyway!Anonymous User wrote:]
Become a nurse, and I'm fucking serious. Getting more into debt for shady job prospects is not the right answer.
PS: State school + full scholarship=I'm ok thanks.
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- Adjudicator
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Re: anyone just not that worried?
Can't argue with this, for anyone who is just looking for a field with great job outlook, good pay, etc., nursing and health care are the place to be.Anonymous User wrote:Become a nurse, and I'm fucking serious.
Some of us just really want to be lawyers, though. But some people would definitely be better off in nursing.
- ResolutePear
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Re: anyone just not that worried?
How will I afford the yacht club with 200k in loans that I'll have paid off in 10 years? HOW?!SBL wrote:I pretty much agree with the OP. Any time people start to complain to me about their law school problems, I tell them to go to Wal Mart and just walk around. Seriously. There are a ton of people there with no money, no education, and no options. They have real problems. We have law school problems. It's immensely helpful to know the difference.
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Re: anyone just not that worried?
Two things.Anonymous User wrote:+1Anonymous User wrote:Fwiw, I go to a t-10, have top 1/3 grades and am hating the OCI process right now. If your goal is a high paying job or whatever, forget law, unless you go to HYS. And if you don't care how much you get paid, there are way more JDs, with good credentials out there, than there are law jobs, both low paying and high paying.Burger in a can wrote:Ok, anonymous troll on the internet, I will take your advice and abandon my quest for a JD. Thank you for opening my eyes and changing my life. I feel so free.Anonymous User wrote:
No, but I have friends who are teachers. They seem happy, and besides dealing with some snotty brats, the work seems a lot more relaxing. Teacher >>> lawyer. Savor your job.
It's still pretty much a crapshoot whether you'll get a 2L summer job unless you're on LR, in the top 10% or you have some crazy work experience. Ppl straight out of undergrad are almost uniformly getting pwnd at my t10.
Firstly, there must be a big difference between the t10 and t6. At my t6, you absolutely do need to be top 10% or law review to be getting callbacks. I am neither, and I've gotten my fair share. Pretty much every single interviewer/hospitality suite person/recruiter etc has said that the economy is picking up, they way overcut last year, and they are increasing the summer class sizes. An interviewer from K&E told me they are not only increasing their class size, but hope more people accept then have in prior years, because they sort of want a bigger class to make up for the small one last year. Given that 70% of students got jobs through OCI last year at CLS and NYU, in the t6, I think most people with median or above grades should be fine. Not 2006, but not 2009 either. I doubt it could be THAT much worse in the top 30% from a t10.
Secondly, I'm really sick of this miserable lawyer crap. Talking with so many attorneys in OCI has proven at least one thing: associates at big law can be very happy! Of course only the happy ones stick around, but being happy and being an associate at a big law firm are not at all mutually exclusive. If you are unhappy in big law, its YOU, and NOT the job.
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Re: anyone just not that worried?
Privileged? I pay for LS on my own...A'nold wrote:
Wow, I love when real life people post stuff about, I don't know, the REAL WORLD? But we should totally listen to the privileged brat that went straight to ls (a t10!) that tells us to be a teacher or a nurse.
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
Now there's a charge.
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