Legal employment, scam blogs, LST, etc. front page today Forum

[270910]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/ ... 4_ST_N.htm

Saw it in a printed paper - front page below the fold. Nothing new for those of us following it, but pretty striking to see it percolate so high into the main stream media.

[miamiman]

Once ITE is over, I truly wonder what the scamblogs will cover.

[BobSacamano]

This article was posted on ATL (I think) and basically confirms who I thought the majority of the law school scam bloggers were:

http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/20 ... y_the.html

[OperaSoprano]

Just want to say I am very proud of Observationalist and Jenesaislaw, the two Vandy grads who started Law School Transparency. Both are TLSers, and this is a wonderful shoutout to them. I have to wonder if they knew, when they started the movement, just how big it would get. I am sure most of us have seen the LST data by now, but anyone who hasn't needs to run over there post haste.

Thank you for posting this.

[Bronte]

Just want to say I am very proud of Observationalist and Jenesaislaw, the two Vandy grads who started Law School Transparency. Both are TLSers, and this is a wonderful shoutout to them. I have to wonder if they knew, when they started the movement, just how big it would get. I am sure most of us have seen the LST data by now, but anyone who hasn't needs to run over there post haste.

Thank you for posting this.

I've been aware of the organization, but wasn't aware that they have much data yet. Do they?

[dood]

...

[Bosque]

ITE will never be over.

Technically true, since all ITE stands for is "in this economy." And no matter what the economy does in future years, whatever is going on could always be described in the same fashion.

[john titor]

i feel like we are not in a recession, but the economy has experienced a long-term contraction. housing and jobs just arent getting any better - I have a feeling that the current conditions will be the new status quo for a long time.

[radek]

Once ITE is over, I truly wonder what the scamblogs will cover.

Good thing they won't have to worry about what to cover next for another 10 years.

[OperaSoprano]

Just want to say I am very proud of Observationalist and Jenesaislaw, the two Vandy grads who started Law School Transparency. Both are TLSers, and this is a wonderful shoutout to them. I have to wonder if they knew, when they started the movement, just how big it would get. I am sure most of us have seen the LST data by now, but anyone who hasn't needs to run over there post haste.

Thank you for posting this.

I've been aware of the organization, but wasn't aware that they have much data yet. Do they?

They have some. It's really the way the current data is organized and analyzed that I find useful. Their spreadsheets are excellent. Of course I want to support them as their organization grows in influence, and they are able to persuade schools to provide detailed employment lists.

[skoobily doobily]

i feel like we are not in a recession, but the economy has experienced a long-term contraction. housing and jobs just arent getting any better - I have a feeling that the current conditions will be the new status quo for a long time.

So like, a long-term recession?

[john titor]

yeah.

[Kafka]

Who makes those blogs anyway? People who got shut out at OCI and couldn't find jobs? People who went to a TTT law school?

And what's really the point? What do you get out of it?

[paratactical]

.

[observationalist]

Thanks for the ongoing support OS... looks like the search feature is back up and running so I just found this thread. We're redesigning the website with new features and hope to have it ready by the time our initial response period closes next week. I think you'll find the new features do a great job explaining the available data and showing what percentages of the class are actually represented by each school's career statistics. I'll bump the thread when it's up and running so you can check it out and send us some feedback.

Aside from making an initial request to the schools to comply voluntarily with the new standard, we've been speaking with some of the people in charge of determining what data should be disclosed. I hope to make an official announcement about all of that soon. In the meantime, hope OCI went well for you and your friends. If anyone happens to talk with Ken, we are still hoping to sit down and speak with him about ways TLS and LST could work together to get more information available. I checked out the LRAP stats awhile back and they're very useful.

Best,
obs

[mpasi]

I'm sure the psychopath behind Shilling Me Softly is loving the USA Today mention. Why aren't they focusing on the fact that it's hard to find a job right now, no matter what your credentials are?

[mpasi]

The hunger strike "guy" Zenovia Evans actually is attempting to profit off of law school admissions with her own pro-law school books, despite her "zOMG career services failed me, lawl skool is awful" outcry.

And the girl is lying about being unemployed:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/2 ... 93996.html


How did a Cooley grad find a job?

[MrAnon]

Once ITE is over, I truly wonder what the scamblogs will cover.

This fundamentally confuses the state of market. The legal job market has been shrinking for years. The number of law grads has been growing for years. Supply of available lawyers has surpassed the number of jobs available and has continued to grow. As long as law students continue to not question this before setting off for school and continue to buy the notion that "good people get jobs" or that they will snag a six-figure job in 3L OCI then this madness will continue. A degree from a lower tier school is simply not worth the price of admission except in extremely rare cases.

Simply read the government's job outlook for attorneys:

"As in the past, some graduates may have to accept positions outside of their field of interest or for which they feel overqualified. Some recent law school graduates who have been unable to find permanent positions are turning to the growing number of temporary staffing firms that place attorneys in short-term jobs."
-http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos053.htm#outlook

When is it ever worth paying $160,000 for a degree to not do what you planned, or to take a temp job? You could easily do either one without going to grad school.

[keg411]

I'm sure the psychopath behind Shilling Me Softly is loving the USA Today mention. Why aren't they focusing on the fact that it's hard to find a job right now, no matter what your credentials are?

She outed herself on ATL (and subsequently JDU), if anyone cares.
And Scott Bullock pulled the plug on "Big Debt, Small Law". I think he got a job (or is somehow working) and doesn't want to screw up his rep more than it already has been.

Meanwhile, I think there will always be a place for the scamblogs, even if the economy bounces back and the legal market doubles in size (please note, I'm NOT saying either of those things will or even could happen). There will always be something to complain about and there will always be people in every industry who are unemployed/underemployed regardless of the economy.

[observationalist]

I would agree that the scamblogs aren't going anywhere. I spoke on a panel with some judges and law school administrators back in June, and told them then that these socalled scamblogs were becoming increasingly vocal and would pose problems in the future if schools don't act to reform how they report employment statistics. It might have sounded like a scare tactic at the time, but since then I think we've seen some validation that more mainstream media are taking notice. Even if every lawyer currently operating one of these blogs stopped, there are still going to be thousands of law school graduates each year who feel like they were misled into taking on so much debt. It's inevitable that some of them are going to document what they see as an injustice, and of those at least a few will gain the level of notoriety that Shilling me Softly and UnemployedJD have gotten.

Whether or not they're right to feel misled is really besides the point... what matters most to the schools is the level of visibility these blogs are getting. Some of them are damaging the reputations of their law schools and successfully deterring applicants from going to those schools. One of our goals has been to convince law school administrators that they can benefit from addressing some of the concerns, and that our standard is an easy and low-cost way to go about doing that.