Harvard Law School EIP 2010 Callback Thread

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Re: Harvard Law School EIP 2010 Callback Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:51 pm

What do people think about leveraging callbacks?

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Re: Harvard Law School EIP 2010 Callback Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:52 pm

Anyone know of callbacks for the following: Paul Weiss (DC), O'Melvany (DC), Winston & Strawn (DC) or Steptoe (DC), Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher (DC)?

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Re: Harvard Law School EIP 2010 Callback Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:00 pm

I got callbacks from Paul Weiss (DC) on Thursday of last week, and from Steptoe (DC) on Tuesday of this week. I applied to O'Melveny (DC) and Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher (DC), and thought the interviews went pretty well, but haven't heard anything.

Anyone hear anything from Covington (DC)?

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Re: Harvard Law School EIP 2010 Callback Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone know of callbacks for the following: Paul Weiss (DC), O'Melvany (DC), Winston & Strawn (DC) or Steptoe (DC), Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher (DC)?


Here is what's gone out in DC:
Boies Schiller, Covington, Crowell & Moring, Gibson Dunn, Hogan Lovells, Jenner & Block, Jones Day, Kirkland & Ellis, Latham & Watkins, Mayer Brown, O'Melveny, Sidley Austin, Skadden, Steptoe, Williams & Connolly (today, so may be continuing, but confirmed calls from interviewer CM), Wilmer Hale.

Arnold & Porter is supposed to go out tomorrow according to their e-mail.

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Re: Harvard Law School EIP 2010 Callback Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:10 pm

O'Melveny DC CB today.

Also, "waitlist" call (?) from Weily Rein DC. Or, just said they need more time to decide.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Harvard Law School EIP 2010 Callback Thread

Postby NYAssociate » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:10 pm

.
Last edited by NYAssociate on Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Harvard Law School EIP 2010 Callback Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I got callbacks from Paul Weiss (DC) on Thursday of last week, and from Steptoe (DC) on Tuesday of this week. I applied to O'Melveny (DC) and Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher (DC), and thought the interviews went pretty well, but haven't heard anything.

Anyone hear anything from Covington (DC)?


Paul Weiss interviewer initials?

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Re: Harvard Law School EIP 2010 Callback Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:The real issue here is that we had hardly any data. If employers were up-front about their standards, and HLS would allow them to pre-screen, then it would be clear that we need to have some other types of firms interviewing at EIP. It turns out that there were hardly any firms at EIP interested in the bottom part of the class. Yet such firms clearly exist, because HLS students do get private employment, albeit after a lot more anxiety that is necessary. So why aren't we figuring out how to get the proper mix of firms for the entire student body, and then figuring out who needs to be interviewing where?


This post isn't getting enough love. I guess it's nice to play at being egalitarian and pretend like a guy with a bunch of LP's is gonna impress his way into Cravath if they just give him a shot. But really, all that's being accomplished here is wasting both sides' time.

In addition to employers, OCS needs to be more forthright about the numbers game as well. The recruiters they set us up with said my grades wouldn't be a problem except at like Irell & Manella and O'Melveny; the Strategic Bidding site says that even guys with straight P's can bid 6 or 7 'highly selective' firms. It took outreach to actual live summers to find out that it was all about grades. That shouldn't happen.

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Re: Harvard Law School EIP 2010 Callback Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:O'Melveny DC CB today.

Also, "waitlist" call (?) from Weily Rein DC. Or, just said they need more time to decide.


Mind saying when the O'Melveny (DC) callback occurred (i.e. do you think that, if I haven't heard, the ship has sailed)?

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Re: Harvard Law School EIP 2010 Callback Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:02 pm

To the kid calling coming to HLS the "worst decision of his life" and the other one who says that HLS isn't a "golden ticket" anymore: quit your fucking whining. If you took everything that OCS said as gospel and didn't do your own research, that is your own fault. Also, don't pawn off your shitty grades or shitty personality on OCS. In the end, you had ALL the control over the outcome of EIP based on a) getting respectable grades, and/or b) being able to hold an interesting, non-awkward conversation with a person for 20 minutes (not that hard; also not hard is having some idea of how to dress and clean yourself up to look professional), and c) bidding semi-intelligently (in terms of picking markets, i.e. not exclusively DC or SF, and in terms of bidding firms within a realistic range).

I also honestly don't know who any of you people are, because almost everyone i've spoken to is doing completely fine in terms of callbacks (and not just in NYC, across lots of markets). If you are a 0L/1L reading this, please don't think that these people represent the norm here.

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Re: Harvard Law School EIP 2010 Callback Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:O'Melveny DC CB today.

Also, "waitlist" call (?) from Weily Rein DC. Or, just said they need more time to decide.


Mind saying when the O'Melveny (DC) callback occurred (i.e. do you think that, if I haven't heard, the ship has sailed)?


This evening. Probably ship hasn't sailed. Impossible to tell, though.

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Re: Harvard Law School EIP 2010 Callback Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:11 pm

Do firm callback waitlists actually exist?

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Re: Harvard Law School EIP 2010 Callback Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:To the kid calling coming to HLS the "worst decision of his life" and the other one who says that HLS isn't a "golden ticket" anymore: quit your fucking whining. If you took everything that OCS said as gospel and didn't do your own research, that is your own fault. Also, don't pawn off your shitty grades or shitty personality on OCS. In the end, you had ALL the control over the outcome of EIP based on a) getting respectable grades, and/or b) being able to hold an interesting, non-awkward conversation with a person for 20 minutes (not that hard; also not hard is having some idea of how to dress and clean yourself up to look professional), and c) bidding semi-intelligently (in terms of picking markets, i.e. not exclusively DC or SF, and in terms of bidding firms within a realistic range).

I also honestly don't know who any of you people are, because almost everyone i've spoken to is doing completely fine in terms of callbacks (and not just in NYC, across lots of markets). If you are a 0L/1L reading this, please don't think that these people represent the norm here.


I don't go to HLS, but I have been around long enough to know that this board self selects to a high level of success. It seems like a large number of TLSer "friends" are overachievers from the get go. So rather than debating the accuracy of the many claims- it would help to know if the cutoff for "success" is median, higher or lower. It seems (and yes it is just my observation) that top 50% HLS is doing OK , but that lower may be more problematic. It would be nice to know where that cutoff is so that 0Ls and others could make their own informed judgment about how "golden" that HLS golden ticket really is ITE.

FWIW, CLS seems to be reporting the same as HLS, and YLS is its usual cryptic self. Stanford may be too soon to tell. And NYU seems to be giving mixed signals. Are we all too focused on DC and NY? How are people doing in other markets?

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Re: Harvard Law School EIP 2010 Callback Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:To the kid calling coming to HLS the "worst decision of his life" and the other one who says that HLS isn't a "golden ticket" anymore: quit your fucking whining. If you took everything that OCS said as gospel and didn't do your own research, that is your own fault. Also, don't pawn off your shitty grades or shitty personality on OCS. In the end, you had ALL the control over the outcome of EIP based on a) getting respectable grades, and/or b) being able to hold an interesting, non-awkward conversation with a person for 20 minutes (not that hard; also not hard is having some idea of how to dress and clean yourself up to look professional), and c) bidding semi-intelligently (in terms of picking markets, i.e. not exclusively DC or SF, and in terms of bidding firms within a realistic range).

I also honestly don't know who any of you people are, because almost everyone i've spoken to is doing completely fine in terms of callbacks (and not just in NYC, across lots of markets). If you are a 0L/1L reading this, please don't think that these people represent the norm here.


A lot of people aren't going to admit that they're not getting CBs, at least in person. That's just how HLS people are.

There is probably a self-selection downwards on this site, though. I mean, you wouldn't really be visiting this site if you were getting good CBs.

I do think OCS could do a better job. Maybe they couldn't predict that NYC would be a relatively good market this year. But, their instructions said that DC and NYC were super-tough markets, but they didn't emphasize the difficulty of CA.

And, douches like you are a big part of the reason that coming to HLS was a sucky decision.

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Re: Harvard Law School EIP 2010 Callback Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:14 pm

To the kid calling coming to HLS the "worst decision of his life" and the other one who says that HLS isn't a "golden ticket" anymore: quit your fucking whining. If you took everything that OCS said as gospel and didn't do your own research, that is your own fault. Also, don't pawn off your shitty grades or shitty personality on OCS. In the end, you had ALL the control over the outcome of EIP based on a) getting respectable grades, and/or b) being able to hold an interesting, non-awkward conversation with a person for 20 minutes (not that hard; also not hard is having some idea of how to dress and clean yourself up to look professional), and c) bidding semi-intelligently (in terms of picking markets, i.e. not exclusively DC or SF, and in terms of bidding firms within a realistic range).

I also honestly don't know who any of you people are, because almost everyone i've spoken to is doing completely fine in terms of callbacks (and not just in NYC, across lots of markets). If you are a 0L/1L reading this, please don't think that these people represent the norm here.



Wow. New most obnoxious comment.

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Re: Harvard Law School EIP 2010 Callback Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:To the kid calling coming to HLS the "worst decision of his life" and the other one who says that HLS isn't a "golden ticket" anymore: quit your fucking whining. If you took everything that OCS said as gospel and didn't do your own research, that is your own fault. Also, don't pawn off your shitty grades or shitty personality on OCS. In the end, you had ALL the control over the outcome of EIP based on a) getting respectable grades, and/or b) being able to hold an interesting, non-awkward conversation with a person for 20 minutes (not that hard; also not hard is having some idea of how to dress and clean yourself up to look professional), and c) bidding semi-intelligently (in terms of picking markets, i.e. not exclusively DC or SF, and in terms of bidding firms within a realistic range).

I also honestly don't know who any of you people are, because almost everyone i've spoken to is doing completely fine in terms of callbacks (and not just in NYC, across lots of markets). If you are a 0L/1L reading this, please don't think that these people represent the norm here.


I don't go to HLS, but I have been around long enough to know that this board self selects to a high level of success. It seems like a large number of TLSer "friends" are overachievers from the get go. So rather than debating the accuracy of the many claims- it would help to know if the cutoff for "success" is median, higher or lower. It seems (and yes it is just my observation) that top 50% HLS is doing OK , but that lower may be more problematic. It would be nice to know where that cutoff is so that 0Ls and others could make their own informed judgment about how "golden" that HLS golden ticket really is ITE.

FWIW, CLS seems to be reporting the same as HLS, and YLS is its usual cryptic self. Stanford may be too soon to tell. And NYU seems to be giving mixed signals. Are we all too focused on DC and NY? How are people doing in other markets?


My problem really is that it's so unclear what top 50% means. I thought I was doing pretty well with 5 H's, but I guess not. I thought that the curve was rigorously enforced for 1L classes, which would indicate to me that 5 H's would likely be above-median, but maybe it's not enforced anymore?

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Re: Harvard Law School EIP 2010 Callback Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Do firm callback waitlists actually exist?


I dunno. I should think they do in practice (if what OCS says is true about firms waiting on the top kids and then offering to lower kids), but I don't know if they generally tell people they're on them. I just called it that because that's what the Wiley Rein DC call felt like. Has anyone heard back affirmatively or negatively from Wiley Rein DC?
Last edited by Anonymous User on Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Harvard Law School EIP 2010 Callback Thread

Postby Objection » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:To the kid calling coming to HLS the "worst decision of his life" and the other one who says that HLS isn't a "golden ticket" anymore: quit your fucking whining. If you took everything that OCS said as gospel and didn't do your own research, that is your own fault. Also, don't pawn off your shitty grades or shitty personality on OCS. In the end, you had ALL the control over the outcome of EIP based on a) getting respectable grades, and/or b) being able to hold an interesting, non-awkward conversation with a person for 20 minutes (not that hard; also not hard is having some idea of how to dress and clean yourself up to look professional), and c) bidding semi-intelligently (in terms of picking markets, i.e. not exclusively DC or SF, and in terms of bidding firms within a realistic range).

I also honestly don't know who any of you people are, because almost everyone i've spoken to is doing completely fine in terms of callbacks (and not just in NYC, across lots of markets). If you are a 0L/1L reading this, please don't think that these people represent the norm here.


Or the people you've spoken to have lied to you because they were embarrassed.

The real issue here is that we had hardly any data. If employers were up-front about their standards, and HLS would allow them to pre-screen, then it would be clear that we need to have some other types of firms interviewing at EIP. It turns out that there were hardly any firms at EIP interested in the bottom part of the class. Yet such firms clearly exist, because HLS students do get private employment, albeit after a lot more anxiety that is necessary. So why aren't we figuring out how to get the proper mix of firms for the entire student body, and then figuring out who needs to be interviewing where?


A friend and I are creating a student organization geared towards helping solve this very problem. It'll be litigation focused, but the goal is to host job fairs, mixers, events, etc with a lot of these firms that would love to hire HLS students but are essentially barred by OCS, don't feel it is worth their time given the pressure OCS puts on us to go to the best firms possible, or just for some reason don't come here.

Basically, we want to make it easier for these firms to get their names out there to HLS students who would otherwise have to dig really deeply to find them.

Many firms have expressed interest, and actually a lot of firms who came to EIP thought it was a good idea and expressed frustration at the difficulty they currently have getting their names out there.

I thought I was doing pretty well with 5 H's, but I guess not.


5 Hs puts you right around the top 1/3rd, I think.

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Re: Harvard Law School EIP 2010 Callback Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:To the kid calling coming to HLS the "worst decision of his life" and the other one who says that HLS isn't a "golden ticket" anymore: quit your fucking whining. If you took everything that OCS said as gospel and didn't do your own research, that is your own fault. Also, don't pawn off your shitty grades or shitty personality on OCS. In the end, you had ALL the control over the outcome of EIP based on a) getting respectable grades, and/or b) being able to hold an interesting, non-awkward conversation with a person for 20 minutes (not that hard; also not hard is having some idea of how to dress and clean yourself up to look professional), and c) bidding semi-intelligently (in terms of picking markets, i.e. not exclusively DC or SF, and in terms of bidding firms within a realistic range).

I also honestly don't know who any of you people are, because almost everyone i've spoken to is doing completely fine in terms of callbacks (and not just in NYC, across lots of markets). If you are a 0L/1L reading this, please don't think that these people represent the norm here.


I cannot wait to see your face when you get no-offered.

Kids, there's a reason OCS gives the mean--not the median--number of callbacks/offers!

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Re: Harvard Law School EIP 2010 Callback Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:38 pm

One thing I highly recommend doing for those of with a good number of callbacks is creating a spreadsheet with a list of all of your callbacks and their callback attended/offer ratio 1) last year and 2) over the last 4 or so years.

This way, you can make sure at least a couple of the callbacks you accept are firms with high offer rates, thus maximizing your chances of landing a job. Otherwise, you may be inclined to go just for your top choices without knowing their CBA/Offer ratio is really low.

For example, Gibson Dunn NYC has given offers to 51/63 (81%) of the people to attend their callbacks over the last four years, including 16/17 last year.

Other firms were a lot worse. Paul Weiss was 62% last year (23/37).

Make sure to have several firms of the Gibson Dunn % variety scheduled, preferably as early as possible so you don't miss the boat.

I know, this doesn't help the people with very few callbacks, but for those with a good #, or with callbacks in different markets that you'll have to choose between, it's something worth considering.

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Re: Harvard Law School EIP 2010 Callback Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:One thing I highly recommend doing for those of with a good number of callbacks is creating a spreadsheet with a list of all of your callbacks and their callback attended/offer ratio 1) last year and 2) over the last 4 or so years.

This way, you can make sure at least a couple of the callbacks you accept are firms with high offer rates, thus maximizing your chances of landing a job. Otherwise, you may be inclined to go just for your top choices without knowing their CBA/Offer ratio is really low.

For example, Gibson Dunn NYC has given offers to 51/63 (81%) of the people to attend their callbacks over the last four years, including 16/17 last year.

Other firms were a lot worse. Paul Weiss was 62% last year (23/37).

Make sure to have several firms of the Gibson Dunn % variety scheduled, preferably as early as possible so you don't miss the boat.

I know, this doesn't help the people with very few callbacks, but for those with a good #, or with callbacks in different markets that you'll have to choose between, it's something worth considering.


Or you could be totally iconoclastic and attend callbacks for every law firm that extended you a callback invitation. Crazy strategy, but it might be just crazy enough to work.

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Re: Harvard Law School EIP 2010 Callback Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Or you could be totally iconoclastic and attend callbacks for every law firm that extended you a callback invitation. Crazy strategy, but it might be just crazy enough to work.

I don't know, I am declining half of my callbacks. Doing two hours (or more) of interviewing per day all fly-out week would completely burn me out.

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Re: Harvard Law School EIP 2010 Callback Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:One thing I highly recommend doing for those of with a good number of callbacks is creating a spreadsheet with a list of all of your callbacks and their callback attended/offer ratio 1) last year and 2) over the last 4 or so years.

This way, you can make sure at least a couple of the callbacks you accept are firms with high offer rates, thus maximizing your chances of landing a job. Otherwise, you may be inclined to go just for your top choices without knowing their CBA/Offer ratio is really low.

For example, Gibson Dunn NYC has given offers to 51/63 (81%) of the people to attend their callbacks over the last four years, including 16/17 last year.

Other firms were a lot worse. Paul Weiss was 62% last year (23/37).

Make sure to have several firms of the Gibson Dunn % variety scheduled, preferably as early as possible so you don't miss the boat.

I know, this doesn't help the people with very few callbacks, but for those with a good #, or with callbacks in different markets that you'll have to choose between, it's something worth considering.


Or you could be totally iconoclastic and attend callbacks for every law firm that extended you a callback invitation. Crazy strategy, but it might be just crazy enough to work.


You can, but it's not easy to fit many into flyout week. You can double up some days, but then you want to make sure that you don't always put the high offer rate firms second since you likely won't be at your best.

And also, since there it is likely that your chance at an offer drops the longer you wait, it might be good for scheduling some high offer rate callbacks earlier.

(I know, you can also schedule them during non-flyout week, but with classes, that's not easy as well).

I don't know, I am declining half of my callbacks. Doing two hours (or more) of interviewing per day all fly-out week would completely burn me out.


And that.

It would be a bad move to decline all of the high offer rate callbacks (even unintentionally). It's good to do your research to make sure you have at least a couple "if all else fails, I'll get an offer at xyz if I don't totally suck."

"A bird in the hand..."

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Re: Harvard Law School EIP 2010 Callback Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Or you could be totally iconoclastic and attend callbacks for every law firm that extended you a callback invitation. Crazy strategy, but it might be just crazy enough to work.

I don't know, I am declining half of my callbacks. Doing two hours (or more) of interviewing per day all fly-out week would completely burn me out.



What are you, nuts??

Don't decline a single callback until you get an offer.

Even if you don't book them all during fly-out week, nothing's stopping you from scheduling a callback later if you don't come through with one of your top choices.

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Re: Harvard Law School EIP 2010 Callback Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What are you, nuts??

Don't decline a single callback until you get an offer.

Except that fucks over people who haven't received any callbacks yet. I have enough scheduled, including safeties, such that I am not going to strike out. Not declining just reduces the pool size of callbacks available to HLS students.

I will, however, echo the earlier sentiment that this is an asinine process.




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