Two-tier models for Associates?

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miamiman
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Two-tier models for Associates?

Postby miamiman » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:34 am

So xo is having a field day after someone ran a July article indicating that law firms in California were considering and, in limited cases, adopting a two-tier model for associates. Is this really going to take hold? Can any current SAs confirm or deny that this exists beyond what we already know (staff attorneys, discovery attorneys, etc.)...

--LinkRemoved--

Renzo
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Re: Two-tier models for Associates?

Postby Renzo » Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:22 pm

I'm not going to click through to the link, but there are a few big firms that have already adopted a two-tier model.

It's not that different than what other firms are doing, but instead of hiring contract attorneys they're creating an in-house pool of staff attorneys.

miamiman
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Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:55 pm

Re: Two-tier models for Associates?

Postby miamiman » Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:31 pm

Renzo wrote:I'm not going to click through to the link, but there are a few big firms that have already adopted a two-tier model.

It's not that different than what other firms are doing, but instead of hiring contract attorneys they're creating an in-house pool of staff attorneys.


The implication, as raised by the xo'ers, is that this will be a discreet way to lower the price point for all associates since second tier associates will, on average, boast a) similar credentials to first-tiers and b) be likewise referred to as simply "associate".

EDIT: and of course this all checks out because there is a virtual sea of unemployed but highly credentialed young attorneys who would kill for the opportunity to wade through doc review at 80k/yr

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ResolutePear
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Re: Two-tier models for Associates?

Postby ResolutePear » Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:06 am

miamiman wrote:So xo is having a field day after someone ran a July article indicating that law firms in California were considering and, in limited cases, adopting a two-tier model for associates. Is this really going to take hold? Can any current SAs confirm or deny that this exists beyond what we already know (staff attorneys, discovery attorneys, etc.)...

--LinkRemoved--

That website hurts my eyes.

And, I assumed most big firms always had a "Partner track" and "Non-Partner track".

The "Partner track" people are the bitches, get paid a bit more than the other track.. but marginal.. and work bitchin'(yes, I said it) hours.

The "Non-Partner track" are basically staff attorneys.. working 40-50 hour weeks.. no chance at partnering in the firm though. Very nice gig I hear if you plan to lateral to another practice or start your own practice. You can still say you're an Associate at the firm on your resume and you're not busting your back for nothing.. though I hear that getting on the "Partner" track is like getting off the friend ladder in a relationship.

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doyleoil
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Re: Two-tier models for Associates?

Postby doyleoil » Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:09 am

miamiman wrote:So xo is having a field day after someone ran a July article indicating that law firms in California were considering and, in limited cases, adopting a two-tier model for associates. Is this really going to take hold? Can any current SAs confirm or deny that this exists beyond what we already know (staff attorneys, discovery attorneys, etc.)...

--LinkRemoved--


stop being so obsessive

not kidding


at all

miamiman
Posts: 1486
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:55 pm

Re: Two-tier models for Associates?

Postby miamiman » Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:56 am

doyleoil wrote:
miamiman wrote:So xo is having a field day after someone ran a July article indicating that law firms in California were considering and, in limited cases, adopting a two-tier model for associates. Is this really going to take hold? Can any current SAs confirm or deny that this exists beyond what we already know (staff attorneys, discovery attorneys, etc.)...

--LinkRemoved--


stop being so obsessive

not kidding


at all


:), I was waiting for your reply. It's cool dude -- not losing sleep over this but am still interested to hear what others have heard.

Renzo
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Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:23 am

Re: Two-tier models for Associates?

Postby Renzo » Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:44 am

miamiman wrote:
Renzo wrote:I'm not going to click through to the link, but there are a few big firms that have already adopted a two-tier model.

It's not that different than what other firms are doing, but instead of hiring contract attorneys they're creating an in-house pool of staff attorneys.


The implication, as raised by the xo'ers, is that this will be a discreet way to lower the price point for all associates since second tier associates will, on average, boast a) similar credentials to first-tiers and b) be likewise referred to as simply "associate".

EDIT: and of course this all checks out because there is a virtual sea of unemployed but highly credentialed young attorneys who would kill for the opportunity to wade through doc review at 80k/yr

Actually, I think it's a positive development. It creates the currently-mythical job where you trade less billable expectations for less money. Most people coming out of school don't want to work 3200 hours a year, but the current choice is do that for 160 or work the same amount for less money at a smaller firm, because GC's, federal agencies, etc. won't take you as a first year (generally speaking). Now people who never wanted to sacrifice their whole lives for money don't have to, because they can earn an acceptable amount without having to pretend they're gunning for partner.

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RVP11
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Re: Two-tier models for Associates?

Postby RVP11 » Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:40 am

Renzo wrote:
miamiman wrote:
Renzo wrote:I'm not going to click through to the link, but there are a few big firms that have already adopted a two-tier model.

It's not that different than what other firms are doing, but instead of hiring contract attorneys they're creating an in-house pool of staff attorneys.


The implication, as raised by the xo'ers, is that this will be a discreet way to lower the price point for all associates since second tier associates will, on average, boast a) similar credentials to first-tiers and b) be likewise referred to as simply "associate".

EDIT: and of course this all checks out because there is a virtual sea of unemployed but highly credentialed young attorneys who would kill for the opportunity to wade through doc review at 80k/yr

Actually, I think it's a positive development. It creates the currently-mythical job where you trade less billable expectations for less money. Most people coming out of school don't want to work 3200 hours a year, but the current choice is do that for 160 or work the same amount for less money at a smaller firm, because GC's, federal agencies, etc. won't take you as a first year (generally speaking). Now people who never wanted to sacrifice their whole lives for money don't have to, because they can earn an acceptable amount without having to pretend they're gunning for partner.


But what would a second-tier associate's exit opportunities be? And what kind of training would they get?




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