Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

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Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:40 pm

I'm a transfer and OCS provided us with data about the quality of students given offers by firms last year in a spreadsheet.

For instance, Cravath made 12 total offers, 0 to transfers, and 11/12 were either Kent/Stone. Skadden made 10 total offers, 2 to transfers, and 5 to Kent/Stone.

Was this spreadsheet not available to non-transfers?

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Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Ah yes, I was wondering when the ire directed at transfer students would begin.

Columbia has increased its class size by about 15% with transfer students every year. This year, it is only slightly above that. You knew this, or could have discovered it, when you applied. If you thought that this cheated you somehow, you should have gone to a different school that didn't take many transfer students. Yale, for example.

Just a reminder: you don't deserve a great job -- or any job for that matter -- just by virtue of going to CLS. Sorry you didn't do so well 1L year and are scrambling now, but, given the economy, that makes you undesirable as a candidate for employment. Transfer students are now also CLS students, and equally deserving of CLS resources. More than that, transfer students are more employable than you are, because they have some demonstrable record of success. CLS wants employable students, because that makes them look good.

For full disclosure, I'm a transfer student. And I have a number of great callbacks. But, none of them are with firms that wouldn't have interviewed me at my old school. I have about the same job prospects as I would have had at my old school. I haven't polled all other transfer students, but that seems to be the pattern. Transfers from significantly lower-ranked schools than my 1L school can get interviews through the CLS lottery with firms that never would have looked at them at their 1L school, but it doesn't look like they're getting callbacks from those firms.

In sum: most people are getting the jobs they deserve. Suck it up.


If all the transfers are getting the same jobs as they would have otherwise, then why transfer?

Also, I think their are some logical missteps in what seems to be the comprehensive pro-CLS transfer argument on TLS. On the one hand, people are saying that transfers are typically treated like Stone. On the other hand, jabs are aimed at the below-median students who "didn't work hard enough" during 1L and are presumptively the ones griping about transfers. In reality, people above median are more threatened than people below. They're the ones now competing with transfers for the same jobs. So people need to stop making the assumption that it's only the below-median CLS students who have a problem with the number of transfers, and that the students that need to stop griping are somehow less qualified due to lack of effort or ability.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm a transfer and OCS provided us with data about the quality of students given offers by firms last year in a spreadsheet.

For instance, Cravath made 12 total offers, 0 to transfers, and 11/12 were either Kent/Stone. Skadden made 10 total offers, 2 to transfers, and 5 to Kent/Stone.

Was this spreadsheet not available to non-transfers?

Yes, but it's not nearly that helpful. GPA distributions a la NYU would say a lot more. There's a big difference between 3.45, barely Stone, and 3.8.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Hm...I think you've confused me with someone transferring from the TTT range. Perhaps if that were the case, your "argument" (i.e. insult) would hold some water. When I stated "T20", I meant, "one of the top 20 law schools in the nation." Didn't think I needed to elaborate. I'd say, at that range, the schools are pretty much the same, sans the name. Disagree if you'd like.


I think you're a little confused about Columbia being the same as your TTT20 shitpile. If that was the case, then why did you transfer buddy? Apparently firms disagree with your assessment strongly.

Regardless, my hate isn't directed at you personally. I would have fought tooth and nail to get the hell out of the shit pile that you perceive to be on the same level as Columbia. You did good boy and I commend you for that.

However, the fact that CLS admin admitted *more* transfers than usual despite knowing that the market is fucked fucked fucked is unbelievably crass.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:45 pm

Hi. Transfer student here. I have 15 callbacks. Know why? For one, I have a good personality. I'm charismatic and I interview well. Also, at my last school, I did tremendously well. In fact, better than almost everybody else. That's why employers are interested in me. Guess what? I'll probably do just as well here. Most transfer students at Columbia end up at the top of the class by the time they graduate. I know, it's shocking! The LSAT is not a perfect indicator of success in law school! So, non-transfer students -- get over the fact that your LSAT score was 3 points higher than mine. Good luck convincing employers that somehow the fact that you answered a few more questions correctly on the LSAT than I did is more important than my record of success in, you know, actually dealing with the law.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:True, I had meant to phrase it differently, but I couldn't think of an appropriate expression. You're right though, I imagine there were many students who worked very hard, yet just didn't "click". Alternatively, I imagine there were students who assumed they could coast merely because they got into CLS. My critique was more aimed toward them.


I know no one like that at CLS. You think that because you weren't there first year.

Everybody works extremely hard. That's why they made it into CLS and you didn't. They fought the brutal CLS curve against other very intelligent and hard working people. People who are objectively more intelligent than people at your Top 20.

You are not at all a Stone Scholar. Pwning at a T20 means you might have hit median at CLS, at best.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hi. Transfer student here. I have 15 callbacks. Know why? For one, I have a good personality. I'm charismatic and I interview well. Also, at my last school, I did tremendously well. In fact, better than almost everybody else. That's why employers are interested in me. Guess what? I'll probably do just as well here. Most transfer students at Columbia end up at the top of the class by the time they graduate. I know, it's shocking! The LSAT is not a perfect indicator of success in law school! So, non-transfer students -- get over the fact that your LSAT score was 3 points higher than mine. Good luck convincing employers that somehow the fact that you answered a few more questions correctly on the LSAT than I did is more important than my record of success in, you know, actually dealing with the law.


You want a cookie?

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Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Also, I think their are some logical missteps in what seems to be the comprehensive pro-CLS transfer argument on TLS. On the one hand, people are saying that transfers are typically treated like Stone. On the other hand, jabs are aimed at the below-median students who "didn't work hard enough" during 1L and are presumptively the ones griping about transfers. In reality, people above median are more threatened than people below. They're the ones now competing with transfers for the same jobs. So people need to stop making the assumption that it's only the below-median CLS students who have a problem with the number of transfers, and that the students that need to stop griping are somehow less qualified due to lack of effort or ability.


This. I am just above median, and thus transfers represent a very real threat.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:49 pm

I could be completely wrong here, but I honestly think it's more about the interview than grades (one interviewer during a callback pretty much explicitly told me that). Amongst the people I have talked to (pretty much all other transfers), the kids getting the most callbacks are the ones who seem to have good interviewing skills, and not necessarily the ones with the best grades, although admittedly transfer students grades are all pretty similar anyway.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:51 pm

Transfer student with 15 callbacks here again.

I'd love to know -- is anybody in the bitching-about-transfers crowd an African-American? If so, well, the irony should be obvious.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:True, I had meant to phrase it differently, but I couldn't think of an appropriate expression. You're right though, I imagine there were many students who worked very hard, yet just didn't "click". Alternatively, I imagine there were students who assumed they could coast merely because they got into CLS. My critique was more aimed toward them.


I know no one like that at CLS. You think that because you weren't there first year.

Everybody works extremely hard. That's why they made it into CLS and you didn't. They fought the brutal CLS curve against other very intelligent and hard working people. People who are objectively more intelligent than people at your Top 20.

You are not at all a Stone Scholar. Pwning at a T20 means you might have hit median at CLS, at best.


Right. And then when the transfers proceed to make top 5% at almighty Columbia, or Chicago for that matter, it's all because the classes are easier!/people stop caring after 1L!, right?

Fuck's sake, get over yourself.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:52 pm

Transferring, at least in my situation, adds some long-term resume value. In the short term, it's basically a wash. In other words, at the very top (1-3%) of my well-respected 1L school, I was competitive for all the same jobs I'm competitive for now. But, when I'm 40, no one will really care what my class rank was more than a decade before, and that's when the CLS degree is going to be useful to me. In the short term, it's a calculated risk. Others from my 1L school feel exactly the same way.

Even if transfer students are in fact competing with above-median CLS students, these are exactly the same students we would have been competing with if we had not transferred.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:True, I had meant to phrase it differently, but I couldn't think of an appropriate expression. You're right though, I imagine there were many students who worked very hard, yet just didn't "click". Alternatively, I imagine there were students who assumed they could coast merely because they got into CLS. My critique was more aimed toward them.


I know no one like that at CLS. You think that because you weren't there first year.

Everybody works extremely hard. That's why they made it into CLS and you didn't. They fought the brutal CLS curve against other very intelligent and hard working people. People who are objectively more intelligent than people at your Top 20.

You are not at all a Stone Scholar. Pwning at a T20 means you might have hit median at CLS, at best.


I'm the poster whom you've quoted.

Actually, that "entitled" remark was coming from a group of non-transfer CLS students. Since they, ya know, "were actually there first year," I imagine they had some perspective on it.

Also, I'm unsure of how scoring higher on the LSAT is indicative of "work[ing] extremely hard." Technically, undergraduate GPA would be a better meter for that, but alrighty then.

Regardless, this thread has taken a nasty turn. I'm partially to blame for that, so I apologize. I suppose I didn't like seeing the flak that transfers were getting for them attempting something that anyone in their position would have went for. If you have vitriol, save it for the administration. In any case, I'm not going to argue about it anymore, the thread has taken a bad enough tangent as is.

Anonymous User wrote:Transfer student with 15 callbacks here again.

I'd love to know -- is anybody in the bitching-about-transfers crowd an African-American? If so, well, the irony should be obvious.


Your original post sounded like a troll job. Now you just sound like a pathetic troll job.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Transfer student with 15 callbacks here again.

I'd love to know -- is anybody in the bitching-about-transfers crowd an African-American? If so, well, the irony should be obvious.



What's the over-under on the number of more pages this thread lasts before it gets locked?

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Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:55 pm

Before this thread gets completely hijacked - can we stop the pro/con transfer argument (or move it elsewhere)?

[for the sake of disclosure - transfer student, who has yet to hear from most places. definitely don't have 15 CBs].

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Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:57 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Right. And then when the transfers proceed to make top 5% at almighty Columbia, or Chicago for that matter, it's all because the classes are easier!/people stop caring after 1L!, right?

Fuck's sake, get over yourself.


If anybody needs to get over himself, it's you. LOL @ you thinking you've really achieved something by winning the special olympics.

The only people that give a shit post-1L are extreme gunners in admin law looking for a clerkship and transfers with a chip on their shoulder, like you.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:58 pm

What about a median CLS student compared to top 10% at the lower T14?

Should the median students at Harvard complain when Stone at Columbia "take their jobs?"

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Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:59 pm

Could someone please update that list? This was a very useful thread until people started yelling at transfer students. Thanks.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Your original post sounded like a troll job. Now you just sound like a pathetic troll job.


This. The only guy I know with callbacks like that is CLR + likely Kent. A far cry from crushing the retards at a T20.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Right. And then when the transfers proceed to make top 5% at almighty Columbia, or Chicago for that matter, it's all because the classes are easier!/people stop caring after 1L!, right?

Fuck's sake, get over yourself.


If anybody needs to get over himself, it's you. LOL @ you thinking you've really achieved something by winning the special olympics.

The only people that give a shit post-1L are extreme gunners in admin law looking for a clerkship and transfers with a chip on their shoulder, like you.


Right. While we're comfortable in our jobs and at the top of the class, and you're at the bottom of the class, unemployed, I'm sure you won't be "giving a shit" because only "extreme gunners" do that, right?

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Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What about a median CLS student compared to top 10% at the lower T14?

Should the median students at Harvard complain when Stone at Columbia "take their jobs?"


I think you're missing the point. The anger is directed at (1) transfer students who think they're hot shit for pwning tards and (2) CLS admin, for increasing the number of transfers, knowing full well that the economy is still completely fucked.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Your original post sounded like a troll job. Now you just sound like a pathetic troll job.


This. The only guy I know with callbacks like that is CLR + likely Kent. A far cry from crushing the retards at a T20.


You don't have to believe it if you don't want to. I hustled for screener interviews. I got a ton. And it paid off. Just like in my 1L year -- I worked hard, and now I'm enjoying the success.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Right. While we're comfortable in our jobs and at the top of the class, and you're at the bottom of the class, unemployed, I'm sure you won't be "giving a shit" because only "extreme gunners" do that, right?


I'm not in the bottom of the class you moron. I'm above median, but not by much. Thus, I am in the group most likely to be affected by transfers.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:03 pm

Is there anyway we can get this thread back on track?

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if the "transfer" claiming he/she has 15 CBs is actually the same person as the poster who seems to insist on calling students at other law schools "retards". None of this is productive, to say the least.

In any case, back on point, I know that Gibson Dunn has sent out dings via snail mail.

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Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Right. While we're comfortable in our jobs and at the top of the class, and you're at the bottom of the class, unemployed, I'm sure you won't be "giving a shit" because only "extreme gunners" do that, right?


I'm not in the bottom of the class you moron. I'm above median, but not by much. Thus, I am in the group most likely to be affected by transfers.


Congratulations on doing only slightly better than half of your classmates. I am happy to be "affecting" you.




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